Experimental Hybrid Car - up to 250 mpg

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: OffTopic
However, not too many people can travel that distant in one go, therefore a much smaller set of battery bank would require if it allow to recharge every 500 miles or 8 hours.

So when I need to drive cross-country (3-4 times a year) I'm basically phuct. It takes just a little longer to recharge an electric than it does to refill a fuel tank. I usually put 800-1,000 miles a day behind me when I'm making those trips.

And no, flying is not an option.

Hydrogen is what's going to do it. Quickly refillable, good range, can be made powerful.

ZV

 

[venk]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: OffTopic
However, not too many people can travel that distant in one go, therefore a much smaller set of battery bank would require if it allow to recharge every 500 miles or 8 hours.

So when I need to drive cross-country (3-4 times a year) I'm basically phuct. It takes just a little longer to recharge an electric than it does to refill a fuel tank. I usually put 800-1,000 miles a day behind me when I'm making those trips.

And no, flying is not an option.

Hydrogen is what's going to do it. Quickly refillable, good range, can be made powerful.

ZV

How long? It can't be done over night?

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: venk

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: OffTopic
However, not too many people can travel that distant in one go, therefore a much smaller set of battery bank would require if it allow to recharge every 500 miles or 8 hours.

So when I need to drive cross-country (3-4 times a year) I'm basically phuct. It takes just a little longer to recharge an electric than it does to refill a fuel tank. I usually put 800-1,000 miles a day behind me when I'm making those trips.

And no, flying is not an option.

Hydrogen is what's going to do it. Quickly refillable, good range, can be made powerful.

ZV

How long? It can't be done over night?

Overnight isn't long? Having to charge the damn car overnight after only 500 miles would _double_ the time it takes me to drive somewhere cross-country. To be practical a battery-operated car would need to have a range of 1,000 miles and recharge from "empty" to 100% in 4 hours.

And with enough batteries for that kind of range it would handle like a sled. See my previous comment about making them handle like my 944 and not like a 12 year old clapped-out Geo Metro.

ZV

 

[mwtgg]

Originally posted by: venk

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: OffTopic
However, not too many people can travel that distant in one go, therefore a much smaller set of battery bank would require if it allow to recharge every 500 miles or 8 hours.

So when I need to drive cross-country (3-4 times a year) I'm basically phuct. It takes just a little longer to recharge an electric than it does to refill a fuel tank. I usually put 800-1,000 miles a day behind me when I'm making those trips.

And no, flying is not an option.

Hydrogen is what's going to do it. Quickly refillable, good range, can be made powerful.

ZV

How long? It can't be done over night?

Not very practical, wouldn't you say?

 

[b0mbrman]

Originally posted by: cyberhap
Text

CORTE MADERA, Calif. - Politicians and automakers say a car that can both reduce greenhouse gases and free America from its reliance on foreign oil is years or even decades away. Ron Gremban says such a car is parked in his garage.

It looks like a typical Toyota Prius hybrid, but in the trunk sits an 80-miles-per-gallon secret ? a stack of 18 brick-sized batteries that boosts the car's high mileage with an extra electrical charge so it can burn even less fuel.

Gremban, an electrical engineer and committed environmentalist, spent several months and $3,000 tinkering with his car.


Pretty sweet stuff.

Yeah right :roll:

You're lucky that stack of 18 brick-sized batteries didn't blow the welds on the intake! Now me and the mad scientist gotta rip apart the block, and replace the piston rings you fried.

 

[OffTopic1]

Originally posted by: Stunt
I realize what he is saying, that's why I want him to show me considering all the factors.

Distribution line lost is a problem, however IMHO line lost is lower than each gasoline power automobile engine. You also have to consider the distribution cost to every individual gas station and car, and cost of processing raw oil into gasoline. While an electricity plant can burn raw oil with out the need of processing, so as coal & natural gas.

 

[EyeMWing]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: OffTopic
However, not too many people can travel that distant in one go, therefore a much smaller set of battery bank would require if it allow to recharge every 500 miles or 8 hours.

So when I need to drive cross-country (3-4 times a year) I'm basically phuct. It takes just a little longer to recharge an electric than it does to refill a fuel tank. I usually put 800-1,000 miles a day behind me when I'm making those trips.

And no, flying is not an option.

Hydrogen is what's going to do it. Quickly refillable, good range, can be made powerful.

ZV

Thing is, all these ecotards who REFUSE to wait for Hydrogen (despite there being real, viable prototypes running around right now) forget that people don't just use their cars to drive 5 minutes to work and back.

 

[Kelemvor]

I think it's an awesome idea especially if the batteries were recharged with solar power. Could have a solar panel system charging it's own system all day and then when you plug the car in at night it charges it right from there. Of course you might as well also have some smaller solar panels on the car itself for when it's parked at work all day long.

THe possibilities are endless and hopefully they'll get worked on soon.

 

[mdchesne]

here's an idea that the chinese had for the longest time: BIKE! or take a human-drawn chariot around town. only limted by your strength or your pocket change. jeeze, you people and your Suburbans and Danalis

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: EyeMWing

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: OffTopic
However, not too many people can travel that distant in one go, therefore a much smaller set of battery bank would require if it allow to recharge every 500 miles or 8 hours.

So when I need to drive cross-country (3-4 times a year) I'm basically phuct. It takes just a little longer to recharge an electric than it does to refill a fuel tank. I usually put 800-1,000 miles a day behind me when I'm making those trips.

And no, flying is not an option.

Hydrogen is what's going to do it. Quickly refillable, good range, can be made powerful.

ZV

Thing is, all these ecotards who REFUSE to wait for Hydrogen (despite there being real, viable prototypes running around right now) forget that people don't just use their cars to drive 5 minutes to work and back.

Right, but it's called designing for the masses. What's more retarded, designing a drive system that applies to 20% of the population, or one that applies to 70% of the population?

Doesn't matter if we're talking about today or next decade when hydrogen cars are available; people will still do a majority of their driving on their way to/from work, and on their way to/from errands/stores/etc at least five days a week, if not more. Better designed hybrids that produce their peak fuel economy in the 0-100 mile range would be *ideal* for most, but not all.

 

[Connoisseur]

Ehh these technologies are proposed under the assumption that the desire for more cars is going to grow and grow. Frankly, I think the best solution is not a better passenger car technology, but a change in the state of mind for commuters. We should switch to a European mentality and make mass transportation systems the focus for the future. I know that it isn't practical for everybody (people living in the country, commuting to out of the way places etc.), but we can reduce fuel consumption exponentially if the government just invested in a better transportation infrastruction for people in suburbs, near cities etc. Someone mentioned the maglev train. Imagine how many more people would stop driving into NYC from Jersey if you could get from anywhere in Jersey to Penn Station in about 30 minutes. Same with other big cities around the country. This way, millions of people would restrict the use of passenger cars to local and weekend driving. This solves everybody's problem. The environmentalists get to see reduced fuel consumption and the driving fanatics get to keep their gas guzzling sports cars.

 

[Howard]

I wish more manufacturers would produce diesel-fueled cars.

 

[desk]

Originally posted by: EyeMWing

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: OffTopic
However, not too many people can travel that distant in one go, therefore a much smaller set of battery bank would require if it allow to recharge every 500 miles or 8 hours.

So when I need to drive cross-country (3-4 times a year) I'm basically phuct. It takes just a little longer to recharge an electric than it does to refill a fuel tank. I usually put 800-1,000 miles a day behind me when I'm making those trips.

And no, flying is not an option.

Hydrogen is what's going to do it. Quickly refillable, good range, can be made powerful.

ZV

Thing is, all these ecotards who REFUSE to wait for Hydrogen (despite there being real, viable prototypes running around right now) forget that people don't just use their cars to drive 5 minutes to work and back.

fuel cell technology is definitely coming along and should be reasonably priced around 2015-20. but the major problem with hydrogen is that there is still no efficient way to mass produce it.

 

[EyeMWing]

Originally posted by: Connoisseur
Ehh these technologies are proposed under the assumption that the desire for more cars is going to grow and grow. Frankly, I think the best solution is not a better passenger car technology, but a change in the state of mind for commuters. We should switch to a European mentality and make mass transportation systems the focus for the future. I know that it isn't practical for everybody (people living in the country, commuting to out of the way places etc.), but we can reduce fuel consumption exponentially if the government just invested in a better transportation infrastruction for people in suburbs, near cities etc. Someone mentioned the maglev train. Imagine how many more people would stop driving into NYC from Jersey if you could get from anywhere in Jersey to Penn Station in about 30 minutes. Same with other big cities around the country. This way, millions of people would restrict the use of passenger cars to local and weekend driving. This solves everybody's problem. The environmentalists get to see reduced fuel consumption and the driving fanatics get to keep their gas guzzling sports cars.

Mass transit systems that are completely and totally broken? It's cheaper and damn near as fast to drive (sanely) than the mass transit systems, even in Europe. And if you drive like your pants are on fire, it's faster, too.

 

[Connoisseur]

Originally posted by: EyeMWing

Mass transit systems that are completely and totally broken? It's cheaper and damn near as fast to drive (sanely) than the mass transit systems, even in Europe. And if you drive like your pants are on fire, it's faster, too.

That's why I mentioned that the government should invest more money upgrading and building new infrastructure. I'm not claiming that this system is perfect, but with technologies like Maglev and other high speed train services, it would def be faster than a car commute into the city and much cleaner than having thousands of people drive in with their SUV's or sedans. As for reliability, I'm not aware of any of the newer technologies having terrible maintenance issues.

And I don't drive if my pants are on fire. I take them off first then go driving in my underwear... mmm.

 

[QurazyQuisp]

Why don't we all just buy that one bmw 7 series that runs on either gas or hydrogen? it gets like 250 miles off of a hydrogen tank.... I can't remember where I saw it, I think it was in Car and Driver a few years ago.

http://www.bmwworld.com/hydrogen/

Seems we should be doing that, and move to fuelcell cars once they can actually get them to work well.

 

[EyeMWing]

Originally posted by: Connoisseur

Originally posted by: EyeMWing

Mass transit systems that are completely and totally broken? It's cheaper and damn near as fast to drive (sanely) than the mass transit systems, even in Europe. And if you drive like your pants are on fire, it's faster, too.

That's why I mentioned that the government should invest more money upgrading and building new infrastructure. I'm not claiming that this system is perfect, but with technologies like Maglev and other high speed train services, it would def be faster than a car commute into the city and much cleaner than having thousands of people drive in with their SUV's or sedans. As for reliability, I'm not aware of any of the newer technologies having terrible maintenance issues.

And I don't drive if my pants are on fire. I take them off first then go driving in my underwear... mmm.

A train may well be faster than a car for a commute into the city - but people don't live within a 1-mile corridor that they could easily plop a train line down the middle of, do they? And then all work within the same radius of one particular spot where they could build a train station. Trains are GREAT if you have a TON of people going from one place to another (i.e. between cities), but NOT for short range commutes.

 

[0roo0roo]

its interesting for those with shorter commutes. well even if your commute is 40 miles, half of that becomes cheap home electricity instead of ever rising gas cost.

 

[GoingUp]

It plugs into the wall eh? Well thats fantastic, except for all of the powerplants polluting the earth so that he can charge his car batteries...

 

[OS]

Originally posted by: Gobadgrs
It plugs into the wall eh? Well thats fantastic, except for all of the powerplants polluting the earth so that he can charge his car batteries...

Atleast it allows countries to better control the source of the energy, so they don't have to get their energy from hostile or ideologically opposed countries.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Gobadgrs
It plugs into the wall eh? Well thats fantastic, except for all of the powerplants polluting the earth so that he can charge his car batteries...

power plants probably more efficient then the gas engine though..

 

[Muadib]

Originally posted by: QurazyQuisp
Why don't we all just buy that one bmw 7 series that runs on either gas or hydrogen? it gets like 250 miles off of a hydrogen tank.... I can't remember where I saw it, I think it was in Car and Driver a few years ago.

http://www.bmwworld.com/hydrogen/

Seems we should be doing that, and move to fuelcell cars once they can actually get them to work well.

I remember reading about such a car back in the early 90's. What have they been doing all this time?

 

[OS]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: Gobadgrs
It plugs into the wall eh? Well thats fantastic, except for all of the powerplants polluting the earth so that he can charge his car batteries...

power plants probably more efficient then the gas engine though..

Easier to control emissions for a handful of powerplants than millions of cars.

 

[Mark R]

The title of this article is misleading - you can't really calculate an mpg figure for a car which can run either on gasoline or electricity depending on which is available.

A figure of 250 mpg is not achievable by a pure gasoline vehicle the size of a prius - indeed, even a car the size of the VW lupo with a '100% efficient' engine wouldn't be able to get such a result. Drag and rolling resistance are the limits.

For the vast majority of people a pure electric car would be ideal - a range of 100 miles and an overnight charging regime would be a perfect match to most people's lifestyle. Of course, it doesn't have the flexibility of a pure liquid fuelled vehicle - so there will always be a niche market for pure liquid fuel or liquid fuel/electric hybrid vehicles.

In terms of overall efficiency, the gasoline engine is better than a grid-powered electric vehicle. Gas engines get about 30-35% efficiency (diesel about 35-40%).
Typical coal power stations get about 37%, grid distribution about 90% and battery charging about 95%, electric motor about 95%. (Overall efficiency about 30%).

So although power plants may be less efficient, they have the advantage that they can run on multiple fuels - coal, nat gas as well as be supplanted by otherwise unusable energy sources: nuclear, hydro, wind, etc. This flexibility is likely to be worth considerably more than a small loss of efficiency. Additionally, modern power plant technologies can improve efficiencies: e.g. 'clean coal' power plants are anticipated to acheive efficiencies of over 48% (although such plants are quite expensive - signficantly more so than recent nuke plants)

It is interesting to see BMW's stance on hydrogen. Essentially, they have announced that they see no market for fuel cell technology as an energy source for cars, and have chosen to develop their internal combustion engines for hydrogen. The main problems with fuel cells are extreme cost (and dependence on rare catalysts, which shows no sign of reducing) and low efficiency. BMW claims that their hydrogen ICE engines can exceed 50% efficiency - whereas most contemporary hydrogen fuel cells top out at about 60%. The 100-fold difference in price between a fuel cell power plant and an ICE power plant was obviously quite compelling for BMW.

 

[Aftermath]

Originally posted by: EyeMWing

Mass transit systems that are completely and totally broken? It's cheaper and damn near as fast to drive (sanely) than the mass transit systems, even in Europe. And if you drive like your pants are on fire, it's faster, too.

Don't they also (generally) drive much smaller and more economical cars in Europe as well though? More diesel engines, more manual transmissions, and far more cars with less than 150bhp? I was under the impression that the United States was one of the only places where you'll see a nice chunk of commuters not only driving every day, but driving in large vehicles with high powered V8's and V6's. Even the 4-bangers generally seem to be higher powered here with a very minimal selection of diesel motors as compared to Europe. (Keep in mind, I'm talking commuter cars here, daily drivers with single or dual occupants.)

Unfortunately, I've never been to Europe, but that's the general idea I get from people who have been there.