Experts Debate Labeling Fat Children Obese

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: mattpegher
There has been a great deal of discussion of genetic obesity. This is a real but extreemly rare problem and can only be diagnosed by an experienced endocrinologist. The vast majority of obese children of obese parents are not genetically obese.

Again, the ABILITY to become chubby, fat, or obese given the right environment and behavior within that environment is genetic. This explains why two people living the exact same lifestyles and eating the exact same foods can be two very different weights.

I've already posted a CDC article that confirms what I am saying. Look up genetics +obesity on google and every valid link confirms what I am saying. There really is no debate.

there are genetic tendencies, but i don't think that makes one doomed to being fat.

i agree with you though that some people can eat whatever they want and gain no weight. others can eat the same and pack on the pounds.

 

[mattpegher]

We're all gentically inclined to store fat, but if we were running on the plains of africa, occasionally getting a decent meal and having to run from preditors this would be a good thing. Since we no longer need to do this, we need to take control of our instinctual urges and monitor what we eat and get some exercise.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: mattpegher
There has been a great deal of discussion of genetic obesity. This is a real but extreemly rare problem and can only be diagnosed by an experienced endocrinologist. The vast majority of obese children of obese parents are not genetically obese.

Again, the ABILITY to become chubby, fat, or obese given the right environment and behavior within that environment is genetic. This explains why two people living the exact same lifestyles and eating the exact same foods can be two very different weights.

I've already posted a CDC article that confirms what I am saying. Look up genetics +obesity on google and every valid link confirms what I am saying. There really is no debate.

there are genetic tendencies, but i don't think that makes one doomed to being fat.

i agree with you though that some people can eat whatever they want and gain no weight. others can eat the same and pack on the pounds.

No, of course not. We can change our environment, or control our behavior within our environment. The later is MUCH harder, as shown by the 80+% long term failure rate of people trying to lose weight within our currect environment.

When I was younger, I could not gain much weight at all, no matter how much I ate or laid around. But once I hit my 30s it was a different story (it was the same with my father). I was successful in modifying my behavior within my environment by becoming a runner first, then a body builder. However, I am able to recognize that I am the minority, and that the 80+% failure rate IS alarming and cannot be simply explained away by calling people "lazy."

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: mattpegher
There has been a great deal of discussion of genetic obesity. This is a real but extreemly rare problem and can only be diagnosed by an experienced endocrinologist. The vast majority of obese children of obese parents are not genetically obese.

Again, the ABILITY to become chubby, fat, or obese given the right environment and behavior within that environment is genetic. This explains why two people living the exact same lifestyles and eating the exact same foods can be two very different weights.

I've already posted a CDC article that confirms what I am saying. Look up genetics +obesity on google and every valid link confirms what I am saying. There really is no debate.

there are genetic tendencies, but i don't think that makes one doomed to being fat.

i agree with you though that some people can eat whatever they want and gain no weight. others can eat the same and pack on the pounds.

No, of course not. We can change our environment, or control our behavior within our environment. The later is MUCH harder, as shown by the 80+% long term failure rate of people trying to lose weight within our currect environment.

When I was younger, I could not gain much weight at all, no matter how much I ate or laid around. But once I hit my 30s it was a different story (it was the same with my father). I was successful in modifying my behavior within my environment by becoming a runner first, then a body builder. However, I am able to recognize that I am the minority, and that the 80+% failure rate IS alarming and cannot be simply explained away by calling people "lazy."

it's the same with gum disease. people will say "i have bad gums... it runs in the family".
bullcrap. you have bad oral hygiene. you may have more of a tendency towards periodontal disease, but your laziness was the real determining factor.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: mattpegher
We're all gentically inclined to store fat, but if we were running on the plains of africa, occasionally getting a decent meal and having to run from preditors this would be a good thing. Since we no longer need to do this, we need to take control of our instinctual urges and monitor what we eat and get some exercise.

The key difference is, how much fat your body stores and where it stores it is governed by genetics. We are NOT all genetically inclined to store the same amount of fat.

Most researchers conclude that this is caused by an evolutionary response to famine. Somewhere along the line groups of isolated people developed the ability (from natural selection) to pack on extra fat during times when food was plentifully to protect themselves against regular lean times.

Really, nothing else can explain the wide variances in body weights between people living the exact same lives and eating the exact same foods.

Along these same lines, this is why most people will end up fatter than before when yo-yo dieting. Their bodies are responding to a perceived famine by increasing the setpoint for fat storage by lowering the metabolic rate and increasing hunger to better protect itself from the next famine.

We have changed our environment, but we have not changed our genes. And the 80+% failure rate in changing our behavior shows that we have a very hard time (hell, a virtual failure) fighting our genetics.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: mattpegher
There has been a great deal of discussion of genetic obesity. This is a real but extreemly rare problem and can only be diagnosed by an experienced endocrinologist. The vast majority of obese children of obese parents are not genetically obese.

Again, the ABILITY to become chubby, fat, or obese given the right environment and behavior within that environment is genetic. This explains why two people living the exact same lifestyles and eating the exact same foods can be two very different weights.

I've already posted a CDC article that confirms what I am saying. Look up genetics +obesity on google and every valid link confirms what I am saying. There really is no debate.

there are genetic tendencies, but i don't think that makes one doomed to being fat.

i agree with you though that some people can eat whatever they want and gain no weight. others can eat the same and pack on the pounds.

No, of course not. We can change our environment, or control our behavior within our environment. The later is MUCH harder, as shown by the 80+% long term failure rate of people trying to lose weight within our currect environment.

When I was younger, I could not gain much weight at all, no matter how much I ate or laid around. But once I hit my 30s it was a different story (it was the same with my father). I was successful in modifying my behavior within my environment by becoming a runner first, then a body builder. However, I am able to recognize that I am the minority, and that the 80+% failure rate IS alarming and cannot be simply explained away by calling people "lazy."

it's the same with gum disease. people will say "i have bad gums... it runs in the family".
bullcrap. you have bad oral hygiene. you may have more of a tendency towards periodontal disease, but your laziness was the real determining factor.

No, actually I would say its more like heart disease. Another genetic condition aggravated by diet and lack of activity.

 

[mattpegher]

In the end, we must accept the fact that our genetic tendencies aside, if we do not address the issue of control of amount and content of our childrens diet and encourage activity, we will be dealing with an severe increase in type II diabetes melitus and heart disease, as well as other disorders.

 

[mattpegher]

The genetics discussion is pointless as the number of children unable to avoid weight gain dispite diet and exercise is less than 1% of the population. And any lesser tendencies toward obesity are not going to be solved with any kind of gene therapy in the near future.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: mattpegher
In the end, we must accept the fact that our genetic tendencies aside, if we do not address the issue of control of amount and content of our childrens diet and encourage activity, we will be dealing with an severe increase in type II diabetes melitus and heart disease, as well as other disorders.

Absolutely. But the problem is, we (as a society) have been trying to change this behavior for over a decade now... and the failure rate has remained largely unchanged at more than 80% long term.

If behavior modification fails, that leaves two options: Change the environment, or change the genetics.

Given this, I don't think it's a bad idea to explore how to stop the natural tendency in some people to pack on fat for a famine that will never come.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: mattpegher
The genetics discussion is pointless as the number of children unable to avoid weight gain dispite diet and exercise is less than 1% of the population. And any lesser tendencies toward obesity are not going to be solved with any kind of gene therapy in the near future.

True, but one must live in the real world. And the real world failure rate for long term weight loss is over 80%.

So no, I do not believe the genetics discussion is pointless. If we cannot change behavior, we must change the environment or the genetics if we want to stop common obesity.

 

[mattpegher]

Gene therapy for obesity is a long way off, the news of a gene for obesity is an oversimplification. Likely the genetic control of obesity is multigenomic. One day there may be some help but for now, we are stuck with enviromental control.

Part of the cure may be in changing our cultural addiction to carbohydrates, low fiber and high fructose corn syrup. Many of our staple food are left over from centuries ago when people worked the land had little food. Portion control is also of issue especially with fast food.

Ultimately, I blame the American Heart Association for starting the miopic view of fat as bad. This opened the door for excess on carbohydrates.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: mattpegher
Gene therapy for obesity is a long way off, the news of a gene for obesity is an oversimplification. Likely the genetic control of obesity is multigenomic. One day there may be some help but for now, we are stuck with enviromental control.

Part of the cure may be in changing our cultural addiction to carbohydrates, low fiber and high fructose corn syrup. Many of our staple food are left over from centuries ago when people worked the land had little food. Portion control is also of issue especially with fast food.

Ultimately, I blame the American Heart Association for starting the miopic view of fat as bad. This opened the door for excess on carbohydrates.

Agreed. Although I still have my doubts that HFCS is any worse than cane sugar, I agree with most everything you're saying.

The only problem is, to change the environment would be to take away people's freedom. And asking people to change their behavior within our given environment is failing.

It's a sticky problem, to be sure.

 

[mattpegher]

Luckily we are starting to see the availablilty of whole grain food more and more. I am a bit worried that many "whole grain" foods have little or no fiber. There must be some legal requirement they are meeting to call them whole grain but I worry that it is an empty promise.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: mattpegher
Luckily we are starting to see the availablilty of whole grain food more and more. I am a bit worried that many "whole grain" foods have little or no fiber. There must be some legal requirement they are meeting to call them whole grain but I worry that it is an empty promise.

True, very true.

But to be honest, one can overdo it on fiber as well.

You don't want to be around me when I get too much fiber. When I do, I've got more gas than then a herd of cows. :Q

The latest exerience was being stuck on a 4 hour flight after eating two boals of Fiber One cereal that morning. Not a fun time for me, and I KNOW it wasn't for those around me! :laugh:

 

[mattpegher]

I am glad though to see both a societal desire for healthier foods and the emergence of suppliers for this market but like most other markets there are going to be a lot of manufacturers looking to make money on the niche without really supplying a good product.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: mattpegher
I am glad though to see both a societal desire for healthier foods and the emergence of suppliers for this market but like most other markets there are going to be a lot of manufacturers looking to make money on the niche without really supplying a good product.

We see a LOT of that already. Sara Lee has introduced a lot of new bread products labeled "wheat" and with all sorts of healthy suggestions on them, yet they are far from 100% whole wheat.

And it's still very hard to find 100% whole wheat buns. I guess they figure healthy people don;t eat hamburgers and hot dogs? Hell, I'm very healthy and have them occasionally.

 

[mattpegher]

If we get our kids to eat whole grains and healthy food from day one they stand a better chance. White bread with the crust cut off is just evil.

 

[Fenixgoon]

maybe if parents cooked good meals for their kids instead of eating at mcdonald's every night. i hardly ever went to fast food joints as a kid.

 

[kidcool321]

i think it is kind of mean cuz it will hurt there feelings and by that they can do something stupid like kill them self,take drugs,thro up so i think its kind of risky too.

 

[DaShen]

Hahaha exactly how I feel