Explain to me why too little refrigerant is a bad thing?

[dawp]

Again, conjecture. You have no fucking idea what it would do because you've never tried it. I understand that 51psi is the sidewall rating of your tire, but it doesn't guarantee that the ride will be like "riding around on balloons". I've taken my dad's truck to 51psi and while it became a little more tipsy (taking sharp turns at 25mph+ is never a good idea anyway), it was overall ok. Additionally, the ride got quieter, harshness didn't change and I got 3mpg AVG better fuel economy as a result.

How can you know what i did? You ain't anywhere near me.

and yes i did raise it, not to 51, I'm not that stupid, but to about 45 and at that level it was bad, like driving on balloons. I took it back down to recommended pressure and the ride was a whole better and safer.

You don't know what car I drive, or how much it weights. you can just come out and say it isn't so with out that info. idiot.

and over-inflation is just as bad as under-inflation, if not worse.

 

[jlee]

I propose that this thread be moved into the garage. :twisted:

 

[gsellis]

I remember reading somewhere that if the A/C in a car or anywhere really cools "too much" that it could have too little refrigerant in there. I understand that if it's really cold on one side then it should be really hot on the other side but couldn't you then just run the compressor motor slower so that ice doesn't form on the cool side and on the hot side it doesn't get too hot? Lets say to get decent cooling in a properly pressurized system the electric motor has to run at 250rpm. Now let's say some refrigerant escapes and it now runs so cold that ice forms on one side. But then you take down the RPM of the electric motor from 250rpm to 200rpm, so now the coils are cold enough and not too cold. Why can't you just continue with this setup? Why would there be a specified pressure if the system can run at a lower pressure and at a lower speed while providing the same cooling effect?

I really have limited knowledge on refrigerants so if anyone can enlighten me, please do.

Adding a variable RPM compressor to a system that gets it power off of a pulley system from the crankshaft increases cost (and you get more inefficiency in the system by adding an electric motor through mechanical loss and conversion losses converting to DC (off the crank) and then creating mechanical force from a motor).

An electronic control could control on/off in an underpressure situation, BUT...

The refridgerant is a lubricant for the system and keeps the seals intact. You need to it in its charged range. Do not try to compensate for undercharge. Maybe they could add an idiot light to tell you that it is time to charge the system again. Don't engineer for situations where the system is failing unless lives depend on it (eg - in an airplane, you cannot pull over to the side and coast to a stop - that is why they have redundant systems, but not for the AC).

 

[grrl]

Hey I guess we all have a lot in common! Funny how that works! I'm a hypocrite, you're a hypocrite, this forum is of hypocrites! YAY! ()

First pious, then rancher and smarmy and now hypocrite - and those are only a few examples of the many words you have misapplied. Do you type with a faulty thesaurus by your side or is this ability to maul English a natural gift?

 

[fleabag]

First pious, then rancher and smarmy and now hypocrite - and those are only a few examples of the many words you have misapplied. Do you type with a faulty thesaurus by your side or is this ability to maul English a natural gift?

Don't make me put you on my ignore list, I've yet to do it but with your idiotic posts like these, I just may have to. You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[fleabag]

How can you know what i did? You ain't anywhere near me.

and yes i did raise it, not to 51, I'm not that stupid, but to about 45 and at that level it was bad, like driving on balloons. I took it back down to recommended pressure and the ride was a whole better and safer.

You don't know what car I drive, or how much it weights. you can just come out and say it isn't so with out that info. idiot.

and over-inflation is just as bad as under-inflation, if not worse.

I know you didn't because if you did, what you're saying is a fucking lie or you're just exaggerating. Characteristics WILL CHANGE but it's usually not a big fucking deal and I know that the only reason you took down the pressure is because you incorrectly believed that the tires were on the verge of popping. To further prove my point, you even make such an inane statement like "and yes i did raise it, not to 51, I'm not that stupid, but to about 45 and at that level it was bad, like driving on balloons.". What you don't get is, tire pressure difference between 35psi and 51psi will have no affect on the loading capacity of the vehicle.
Can you understand what the implication is of that fact? Here is a hint, if your tires don't wear unevenly at 35psi, they sure as hell won't get any worse at 51psi.

Oh and here is another gem of yours,

and over-inflation is just as bad as under-inflation, if not worse.

Do you realize how fucking wrong you are about this? Do you have any idea what could happen to a tire that is underinflated compared to overinflated? The fact that you think a car tire is better off being a few PSI low from the manufacturer's suggested PSI than being at or slightly below the tire's sidewall printed PSI says to me you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

 

[grrl]

Don't make me put you on my ignore list, I've yet to do it but with your idiotic posts like these, I just may have to. You have no idea what you're talking about.

fleatard is going to ignore me!? How will my life go on? Prove to me my post is "idiotic" and then you could do so and not look like a delusional child with an atrocious memory.


smarmy - post 79

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2076462&highlight=smarmy

It's only amusing to arrogant know-it-all shit heads but to those who actually bothered to do the research and came to the same conclusions as I did would find it refreshing to see someone to disseminate such information to the local peon population. What is said is true and I absolutely stand by what I've said. Now, you smarmy little asswipe, why don't you go ahead and disprove what I said instead of spouting off about how I'm such a dumbass when you're the one that is ignorant about all things concerning cars.


smarmy - post 93

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2081215&highlight=smarmy

No one knows you and no one likes you, stop posting. Oh and I know you're going to retort with something smarmy like "oh the irony" but the truth of the matter is, someone likes me and EVERYONE knows me..


pious - post 49

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2076462&highlight=pious

Originally Posted by PottedMeat
what the hell does highest coolant temperature experienced have to do with vehicle crappiness?

It has to do with the fact that you're a pious little shithead.


rancher - post 1

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2080897&highlight=jolly

 

[shortylickens]

New ATOT meme is low refrigerant.

 

[DrPizza]

<last ditch effort to enlighten him>
Fleabag, you said that inflating to sidewall would affect the handling characteristics going around corners, so you would have to take corners a little more slowly, right? If so (and we can just quote you to prove it) then you do realize that for the exact same reasons, inflated to sidewall tires increase your stopping distance, right?
</last ditch effort.>

 

[Meghan54]

To Fleabag.


If you are having problems with your car air conditioning system, take it to an accredited and licensed repairer. You should not work on your car. I do not believe you have the mechanical skills to sharpen a pencil in a child's safety sharpener.


Sincerely

Sea Moose

This, more than even fleabag's incoherent ramblings in this thread, made me laugh! Thanks, and it's soooo true.

 

[fleabag]

<last ditch effort to enlighten him>
Fleabag, you said that inflating to sidewall would affect the handling characteristics going around corners, so you would have to take corners a little more slowly, right? If so (and we can just quote you to prove it) then you do realize that for the exact same reasons, inflated to sidewall tires increase your stopping distance, right?
</last ditch effort.>

what the fuck? A vehicle's cornering ability and straight line stopping distances can be completely affected by mutually exclusive factors. I've never experienced worse handling or stopping distances due to adding tire pressure and if anything I've gotten better performance out of my tires, not worse. I've yet to notice a measurable difference in braking distance even in slick weather (sleet) so the notion that inflating to 51psi on my dad's truck is false. In a much older thread, I mentioned taking turns in a reversed banked corner where the vehicle felt a little more inclined to tip-over due to me taking that corner much too fast. You know on those Nascar tracks where they have banked corners? The corners are banked so that the drivers can take the corners more quickly? Right? Well the instance I refer to is one where the corner was banked so that instead of improving cornering ability, it was hurting it.

If you're still having a difficult time visualizing what I'm talking about, picture this. You're driving an SUV going straight down a steep road at a high rate of speed, you sharply turn the steering wheel to the right, what do you picture would happen to this vehicle? It's going to roll over... This is pretty much caused by overloading the front left tire (in this circumstance) and under-loading the right rear tire, causing the vehicle to flip. This exact same scenario happens on this "reverse banked turn" I take when I turn off the off-ramp. It's only in this type of scenario where I could measurably feel a negative impact on handling characteristics due to my inflation pressures. However since I'm not driving a sports car and if a police officer witnessed me taking that corner at that rate of speed (25mph), it's very possible that I could be cited. So the only adverse handling effect I could measurably feel is one that happens in a scenario where I'm already driving at an unsafe rate of speed.

I think I understand where you came to the conclusion that higher pressure = worse braking distance. I said that higher pressures made taking sharp corners too quickly uncomfortable and I guess you assume it was because I was getting tire scrub, that the tires weren't gripping the pavement anymore. So if my tires are not gripping the pavement as well as before, then my braking distance would be affected. This did not happen. Instead what happened is by adding more air to the tires it raised the vehicle's center of gravity ever so slightly.

 

[fleabag]

fleatard is going to ignore me!? How will my life go on? Prove to me my post is "idiotic" and then you could do so and not look like a delusional child with an atrocious memory.


smarmy - post 79

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2076462&highlight=smarmy

It's only amusing to arrogant know-it-all shit heads but to those who actually bothered to do the research and came to the same conclusions as I did would find it refreshing to see someone to disseminate such information to the local peon population. What is said is true and I absolutely stand by what I've said. Now, you smarmy little asswipe, why don't you go ahead and disprove what I said instead of spouting off about how I'm such a dumbass when you're the one that is ignorant about all things concerning cars.


smarmy - post 93

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2081215&highlight=smarmy

No one knows you and no one likes you, stop posting. Oh and I know you're going to retort with something smarmy like "oh the irony" but the truth of the matter is, someone likes me and EVERYONE knows me..


pious - post 49

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2076462&highlight=pious

Originally Posted by PottedMeat
what the hell does highest coolant temperature experienced have to do with vehicle crappiness?

It has to do with the fact that you're a pious little shithead.


rancher - post 1

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2080897&highlight=jolly

What do you want me to do? Go on M-w.com and look up the definitions to words you do not understand? Is the only reason you go to anandtech.com is because your older brother or sister has a bookmark for it? That if you don't have a bookmark, you can't visit the site because you don't know how to use the internetz? :hmm: Go lookup the definitions yourself if you care to know their meanings.

 

[shortylickens]

Did you take lessons in trolling?

 

[grrl]

What do you want me to do? Go on M-w.com and look up the definitions to words you do not understand? Is the only reason you go to anandtech.com is because your older brother or sister has a bookmark for it? That if you don't have a bookmark, you can't visit the site because you don't know how to use the internetz? :hmm: Go lookup the definitions yourself if you care to know their meanings.

You fail, yet again. Not only am I older than you, fleatard, I'm also much more intelligent. That's why I KNOW you have misused those words even if you don't. To offer you just one example:

smarmy - excessively or unctuously flattering, ingratiating, servile, etc.

Explain how that applies to "oh the ironing" type comments.

 

[lxskllr]

As a proponent of inflating my tires to max, I will say that braking distance IS affected, whether you feel it or not. The reason gas mileage is better, is because there's less rubber on the road. Less rubber on the road=less braking power. I'm with you on the higher tire inflation, but you aren't doing yourself any favors defying simple physics in these threads ;^)

 

[fleabag]

You fail, yet again. Not only am I older than you, fleatard, I'm also much more intelligent. That's why I KNOW you have misused those words even if you don't. To offer you just one example:

smarmy - excessively or unctuously flattering, ingratiating, servile, etc.

Explain how that applies to "oh the ironing" type comments.

I'm not sure where you get your definitions from, but I prefer wibster's dictionary.. :awe:

"1 : revealing or marked by a smug, ingratiating, or false earnestness <a tone of smarmy self-satisfaction — New Yorker>"

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/smarmy

 

[fleabag]

As a proponent of inflating my tires to max, I will say that braking distance IS affected, whether you feel it or not. The reason gas mileage is better, is because there's less rubber on the road. Less rubber on the road=less braking power. I'm with you on the higher tire inflation, but you aren't doing yourself any favors defying simple physics in these threads ;^)

Sorry but it doesn't work that way.. That's pretty much as bad as saying that going from 175/70-14 to 205/50-15 tires will somehow improve your braking distance assuming the tire compounds, pressure and load ratings are the same. This is false. Even if there is a smaller contact patch with the road, that contact patch now has more force upon it so braking distance should be the same assuming the road is in good condition and there aren't things in the road. Again, this is assuming that even happens, which it doesn't. If I found my tires to visibly wearing down the center, you can be assured I'd lose some pressure to prevent that from occurring. However if the tires wear evenly, then that means the tire's tread pattern is in full contact with the road and therefore there should be no adverse affect to braking distance whatsoever.

Edit:As for the reason why more pressure equals better economy, it isn't necessarily because of less tire touching the road. Part of the reason for improved economy is that there is less deflection in the tire's sidewall which while it may affect ride quality by transmitting more road imperfections to the suspension, it means that less energy is dissipated in the tire's themselves. Where ever there is heat, it means energy is lost/wasted and in this case it's energy from the engine's output shaft. This is the primary reason why under-inflated tires blowout, it's because the sidewalls flex so much that heat builds up to the point of the tires failing. A tire that is sufficiently pressurized does not experience much flex in the tire's sidewall and therefore there is no buildup of heat inside of the tires.

 

[grrl]

I'm not sure where you get your definitions from, but I prefer wibster's dictionary.. :awe:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/smarmy

My definition is from Random House and is the same one The New Shorter Oxford Dictionary provides as #2. (#1 doesn't fit because it is "smooth and sleek".) Similary, Oxford definition 2a for "smarm" is "Behave in a fulsomely flattering or toadying manner, suck up to a person." (The previous ones are also inapplicable.)

Now, your definition includes three parts - smug, ingratiating, and false earnestness - yet only smug fits your use of smarmy. So unless you really think "oh the irony" is ingratiating or earnest, your choice of words is weak at best.

 

[fleabag]

My definition is from Random House and is the same one The New Shorter Oxford Dictionary provides as #2. (#1 doesn't fit because it is "smooth and sleek".) Similary, Oxford definition 2a for "smarm" is "Behave in a fulsomely flattering or toadying manner, suck up to a person." (The previous ones are also inapplicable.)

Now, your definition includes three parts - smug, ingratiating, and false earnestness - yet only smug fits your use of smarmy. So unless you really think "oh the irony" is ingratiating or earnest, your choice of words is weak at best.

Well you also misquoted, it's not just "ingratiating or earnest", it's ingratiating or false earnestness. Smarmy pretty much describes douchebag beatniks/hipsters/liberals, etc.

 

[grrl]

Well you also misquoted, it's not just "ingratiating or earnest", it's ingratiating or false earnestness. Smarmy pretty much describes douchebag beatniks/hipsters/liberals, etc.

Okay, I'll play. Explain how "false earnestness" fits "Oh, the irony." You have yet to address that point.

 

[fleabag]

Okay, I'll play. Explain how "false earnestness" fits "Oh, the irony." You have yet to address that point.

I'm not going to spend my time explaining to you why I choose the word I choose when the choice of word is perfectly acceptable. This is a waste of time and you should know better.

 

[Sea Moose]

 

[grrl]

I'm not going to spend my time explaining to you why I choose the word I choose when the choice of word is perfectly acceptable. This is a waste of time and you should know better.

What's that sound? It's the sound of fleatard conceding defeat by claiming that explaining himself would be a waste of time. I predicted such a reply, so you're correct in one respect, I "should know better" than expect you be capable of defending your word choice.

I shall now try to ingratiate myself to a smarmy liberal rancher by piously ironing some of his falsely earnest shirts.

 

[dawp]

snip

your still in or just out of high school and have no real life experiences.

and no it isn't an exaggeration. i did increase pressure and the car became squirlly, harder to control, and bounced a lot more. this right after I bought the tires and had an allignment done at the same time. when you over-inflate, you reduce the contact patch of the tire and will wear out the center of the tread faster, the tire becomes harder, and more prone to bouncing and are more likely to lose control in an emergency. Which is what happened when i did it. It is not safe to inflate to 20lb+ above the recommened pressure of the car maker.

 

[fleabag]

What's that sound? It's the sound of fleatard conceding defeat by claiming that explaining himself would be a waste of time. I predicted such a reply, so you're correct in one respect, I "should know better" than expect you be capable of defending your word choice.

I shall now try to ingratiate myself to a smarmy liberal rancher by piously ironing some of his falsely earnest shirts.

Well considering that you think there was any dispute as to the definition of the word "rancher" I'll have to concede that you have me beat, you are indeed a bigger retard than I could ever have lead people to believe that I am. The fact that you think nitpicking over words that were appropriately used because you're too stupid to argue about something worth arguing about shows you actively spend time trying to make me look bad.

You're definitely a worthless poster. When was the last time you actually made a worthy thread? Oh don't answer that, otherwise I might inadvertently force you to create another lengthy diatribe about who makes "worthless threads" which will then result in several succeeding posts that consist of mostly mud flinging.

If you want to post in this thread, be my guest, I'm going to attempt to ignore you as you've once again helped sidetrack this thread about air conditioning refrigerants to the proper usage of a thesaurus which was mostly prompted by your desire to troll.