Explosion in central Oslo, Norwegian Primeminister's Office was hit.

[Whiskey16]

Venezuela is a teeny tiny country that is an island in a sea of democracy...

Careful there.... The Chavez governments have received internationally verified popular support in the past elections. The issue of enforced term limits can reasonably be argued as undemocratic. You may not arbitrarily rule a state as being undemocratic if a majority of voters in that state belong to a bloc that you politically and economically disagree with. Ironically, that would make your political leanings to be more authoritative than democratic.

The voting blocs in Venezuela are generally differentiated by class. Among oppositions groups, the poor are judged to be incapable of wisely choosing a viable government, thereby the minority of those with more wealth determine that their votes ought to account for more. If their candidates loose, a scream of socialist totalitarianism is all too common and they often gain like-minded echos from decent folk in the USA and elsewhere who'll opportunistically cry along with them, as was regretfully done throughout Latin America through the latter half of the last century.

The similarities for warnings against recent popular uprisings in the Middle East and Iran exist -- fears of what the majority non-ruling classes will bring about via democracy. Plenty of states in this American hemisphere faced violent USA supported coups to domestic genocide (Guatemala) after having presented a democratic initiative to elect governments that the ruling and investment classes feared to trump their authoritative control. When lacking fair judicial and electoral recourse, those who are struggling will more readily resort to more extremist actions. Some states who fear civil rebellion may pre-empt opposition reaction through vicious domestic campaigns.

In the radical segments of Islam, there is society brotherhood and community among growing lines of communication to spread the empathy of suffering that some fellow Muslims endure. Justifications and calls to action. Similar to militant Catholics in Northern Ireland finding criminal support for their plight in the USA. Finding sympathy may be reasonable in the light world wide militarised occupations, deaths, and economic servitude to minority ruling classes. Though, as with any segments of populations in this world, only a minuscule minority are inclined to divert angst into violent extremism. The USA, Israel, many European states, have long sordid history of groups and individuals -- who are not Muslim -- resorting to mass shootings and bombings. The more recent knee-jerk satisfactions of demeaning Muslims responsible, is sadly, a boost to some groups delusion of exceptional self-righteousness.

First go examine your own histories before jumping around to demean one group.

 

[Craig234]

Image that supposedly 'may' show the gunman at the shooting. This link was posted in another forum.

***Warning: There are what appears to be victims in the image***

http://i51.tinypic.com/k2cwmw.jpg

Thanks for the warning, which I'd like to see on all graphic pictures here. I didn't click it.

 

[Nintendesert]

Thanks for the warning, which I'd like to see on all graphic pictures here. I didn't click it.

Looks like one guy on the bottom left is begging for his life. Pretty horrific.

 

[SandEagle]

well, well, well. what do we have here?

http:// http://politisk.tv2.no/nyheter/st&#...pph%C3%B8re-muren-ma-rives-og-det-ma-skje-na/

the camp where the shooting occurred had just concluded a pro-Palestinian rally the day before. inter. est. ing

 

[iGas]

Leaving Afghanistan alone? Please, would want nothing more. But you forget that it was the Taliban who attacked US first.

My condolences to the Norwegian.

IMHO, the crazies bombed Norway because of its NATO/America support and policy.

Amerika Fuck Yeah!

America never ever done anything wrong to other countries/cultures, or its own people.

Below is quick list that I found from Google. There are more US interventions and involvements globally since the first Gulf War till now that isn't on the list below if you care to read/learn.

List of military operations
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_operations

Cold War Era

Asia
Ajax (1953) — Anglo-American plan for Iranian coup d'état that deposed Mohammed Mosaddeq and reinstalled Mohammad Reza Pahlavi
Eagle Claw (1980) — Attempted rescue of American hostages held in Tehran.
Earnest Will (1987–88) — American protection of Kuwaiti oil tankers in the Persian Gulf during the Iran–Iraq War
Eager Glacier (1987–88) — U.S. spy planes gather intelligence about Iran.
Nimble Archer (1987) — U.S. retaliates for Iranian missile attack on reflagged Kuwaiti tanker.
Praying Mantis (1988) — U.S. retaliates against Iran for mining frigate.
Prime Chance (1987–88) — Special operations to protect Kuwaiti tankers, run largely from barges in the northern Persian Gulf.
Evening Light (1980) — failed U.S. attempt to rescue embassy hostages in Tehran
Team Spirit (1976–1993) — Annual joint exercise with South Korean forces.

Europe
Berlin Airlift of 1948:
Vittles — US part of the Berlin Airlift
Gold (1954) — covert American tunnel under the Berlin Wall
Reforger — Annual American exercise to "return forces to Germany".

South America
Operation Brother Sam (1964) — A US government contingency plan to support the military coup that overthrew the Brazilian constitutional president João Goulart, if the coup had faced armed resistance
The track down operation (1967) — that capture and executed Che Guevara
Operation Condor (1970's) — — A campaign run by then South American Military Dictatorships' intelligence services with United States' support, which goal was extrajudicial and secretly, find, capture and eliminate political dissidents who, had succeeded to escape political repression in their homelands but could be found in any of these other countries.

Central America and the Caribbean
Fortune (1950s) — 1951 CIA plan for a coup in Guatemala. Executed as Success.
Success (1954) — 1954 CIA coup in Guatemala.
Northwoods (1960s) — plan to incite war between the United States and Cuba.
Peter Pan (1960s) — transfer of Cubans to the US
Operation Pluto (1961) — plan to invade Cuba and overthrow its' government using an CIA-trained force of Cuban exiles.
Mongoose (1962) — plan for information gathering, sabotage, civil insurrection and the overthrown of the Cuban government.
Phibriglex (1962) — US plan and mock invasion by its armed forces of a Caribbean island. The exercise took place on Vieques and the purpose of the mock invasion was to overthrow a fictitious leader called "Ortsac", whose name was, in fact, Castro spelled backwards. It occurred in August, shortly before the Cuban Missile Crisis. It is also known by the names Operation Ortsac, Operation Swift Strike II and Exercise Phibriglex-62.
Power Pack (1965) — US deployment with OEA military support in the Dominican Republic
Waverider (1972) —
Acid Gambit — Rescue of Kurt Muse.
Bushmaster — Security operations near US facilities.
Sand Flea — rehearsal for Just Cause.
Cubana Flight 455 (1976) — a Cuban civilian flight from Barbados to Jamaica that was brought down by a terrorist attack did by CIA anti-Castro Cuban exiles and members of the Venezuelan secret police.
Urgent Fury (1983) — US invasion of Grenada
Contras covert operation (1980s) — The illegal arrangements of Ronald Reagan's administration to keep the financial, military, logistic and supply support for the Contras
Golden Pheasant (1988) — US deployment in Honduras
Just Cause (1989) — US invasion of Panama

Other
Blowdown (1963) — Australia/US/UK simulated nuclear explosion in a rain forest.
El Dorado Canyon (1986) — US strikes against Libya
Morning Light (1978) — Joint Canadian-US effort to recover Cosmos 954, a nuclear powered Soviet RORSAT.
Mount Hope III (1988) — covert recovery of a crashed Soviet-made helicopter from Africa.

Other Africa
Eastern Exit (1991) — US evacuation of its embassy in Somalia
Restore Hope (1992) — American name for UNITAF, humanitarian intervention in Somalia
Sharp Edge (1990–91) — evacuation of Americans from Liberia
Shining Express (2003) — evacuation of Americans from Liberia

East Timor -- Ford & Kissinger, and Carter.

A year earlier, in December 1974, United States Secretary of State Henry Kissinger had been asked by an Indonesian government representative whether or not the US would approve the invasion.[59] In March 1975, U.S. Ambassador to Indonesia David Newsom, recommended a "policy of silence" on the issue and was supported by Kissinger.[60] On October 8, 1975, a member of the United States National Security Council, Philip Habib, told meeting participants that "It looks like the Indonesians have begun the attack on Timor." Kissinger's response to Habib was, "I'm assuming you're really going to keep your mouth shut on this subject."[61]

On the day before the invasion, U.S. President Gerald R. Ford and Kissinger met with Indonesian president Suharto. The United States had suffered a devastating setback in Vietnam, leaving Indonesia as the most important ally in the region. The US national interest "had to be on the side of Indonesia," Ford concluded.[62] According to declassified documents released by the National Security Archive (NSA) in December 2001, they gave a green light for the invasion. In response to Suharto saying, "We want your understanding if it was deemed necessary to take rapid or drastic action [in East Timor]," Ford replied, "We will understand and not press you on the issue. We understand the problem and the intentions you have." Kissinger similarly agreed, though he had fears that the use of US-made arms in the invasion would be exposed to public scrutiny, talking of their desire to "influence the reaction in America" so that "there would be less chance of people talking in an unauthorised way."[63] The US also hoped the invasion would be relatively swift and not involve protracted resistance. "It is important that whatever you do succeeds quickly," Kissinger said to Suharto.[64]
The United States furnished over $250,000,000 of military assistance to Indonesia between 1975 and 1979.

East Timor (1975-99)
http://www.gendercide.org/case_timor.html

The Washington Connection and Third World Fascism, that the Indonesian assault had taken a greater per-capita toll -- killing about a third of the Timorese population -- than any genocide since the Jewish holocaust. But the slaughter took place at a time when western governments and media were resolutely focused on the atrocities committed by the communist Khmer Rouge in Cambodia/Kampuchea, and attracted barely a whisper of notice or official condemnation.

Wars of the United States
http://www.historyguy.com/War_list.html#warlist12

World War II (1941-1945)

The Cold War (1945-1991)

Korean War (1950-1953)-Also involved Britain, France, Turkey, and others against North Korea and China.

Intervention in Lebanon (1958)

Second Indochina War (1956-1975)

Vietnam War (1964-1973)--The "advisory" phase of U.S. involvement goes from 1956 to 1964, and then resumes from 1973 to 1975. The years 1964 to 1973 refer to the period of "official" combat deployment of U.S. forces in the war.
Cambodian Civil War (1970-1975)

Laotian Civil War (1960?-1975)

Dominican Intervention (1965-1966?)

Iranian Hostage Crisis (1979-1980)

Lebanese Intervention (1982-1984)

Grenada Invasion (1983)

First Persian Gulf War (1980-1988)-The U.S. gave logistical and intelligence information to Iraq in its war against Iran.

"Tanker War" (1987-1988)-The U.S. provided naval protection for Kuwaiti oil tankers in the Persian Gulf. This led to multiple clashes with the Iranian military.
Panama Invasion (1989)

Second Persian Gulf War (1991)

No-Fly Zone War (1991-2003)

Somalia Intervention (1992-1993)

Occupation of Haiti (1994-Present)

Bosnian War (1995)-The U.S. and NATO engaged in air strikes to force the Bosnian Serb forces to negotiate a peace agreement. Also known as Operation Deliberate Force. U.S. airpower contributed 65.9% of the NATO air sorties.

bin Laden's War (1998-Present) -Terrorist conflict between the United States and irregular forces led by Osama bin Laden. The violence has also involved Kenya, Tanzania, Sudan and Afghanistan.

Kosovo War (1999) --Links Page

The War in Afghanistan (2001-Present)

The Third Persian Gulf War : "Operation Iraqi Freedom" (2003)--The second major war between the United States-led coalition and the Middle Eastern nation of Iraq. Military members of the coalition also include the United Kingdom and Australia.

Intervention in Haiti (2004)--Intervention to prevent civil war/anarchy in Haiti following the Gonsalves Rebellion against the Haitian government.

 

[Gigantopithecus]

None of what you said has anything to do with this. All of your posts have an overtone that we (the West, USA imparticular) cause Islamic terrorism. Like we are a scantily clad female who gets raped.

Feel free to counter the argument that if the world was not dependent upon cheap oil, and we did not have to prop up brutal dictators like Saddam or autocrats like the Saudi Royal Family to get that cheap oil, then there wouldn't be any Islamic terrorism. All anyone in this thread has claimed is 'poor people the world over don't blow themselves up, it must be Islam!' - completely blind to the fact that Muslims all over the world don't blow themselves up, either. I have never claimed that Islam isn't part of the equation. I've already stated that you do something about poverty, but you can't do anything about religion.

You might not come out and say "Well, she/we deserved it", but we can read between the lines. And it is sick either way.

You're reading something between the lines that I didn't put there. I can't help how you manage to misinterpret what I'm saying. And as for your comparison, whether or not the victim 'deserved it' is a pointless exercise. What's fruitful is preventing it from happening again.

If you think we need to help every impoverished country or risk attack, you are in the minority, thankfully.

I am? How much money does the US spend on foreign aid? Are the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan not costing trillions of dollars - all to help impoverished countries?

The last part is just a personal attack that I had figured you were above. I guess not.

You're the one deriding comments as "liberal college kid bullshit." I was above personal attacks until you dragged me down to your level. As I said, you're ignorant, you're apparently incapable of understanding an issue as complex as modern Islamic terrorism, you resort to pathetic ad hominems when you can't make valid counterarguments, and then absurdly bemoan being personally attacked yourself. I have no more time to waste arguing with an idiot - I have a fourth college degree to acquire!

 

[OCGuy]

Yes, god forbid we help people in Haiti, and stop the massacre of muslims in Bosnia.


......

 

[werepossum]

I'm shocked. This is my shocked face.

Still chuckling over this.

This is two horrible, evil things no matter who is to blame.

 

[Thump553]

All this speculation about muslim terrorists seems very premature, at the very least. According to the news reports I've seen the only arrest so far (the gunman on the island) was a blond Norwegian. It is possible one person could have done both attacks. This is quite possibly Norway's version of a Timothy McVeigh.

You've really got to wonder, though, how fucked up does someone's mind have to be to deliberately go to a summer camp and gun down unarmed children.

 

[OCGuy]

As I said, you're ignorant,

- completely blind to the fact that Muslims all over the world don't blow themselves up, either.

I don't know what your definition of "all over the world" is, but here are a few of the recent hotspots involving fundamentalist Islam:

Israel
Spain
England
United States
Russia
China
India
Pakistan
Somalia
Netherlands


Keep your head in the sand.

 

[Gintaras]

we did not have to prop up brutal dictators like Saddam

Do research, how "brutal dictator" was "installed" - came to power in Iraq and and who did it help him...

US do support dictators anywhere in the World as long as they do what they're told to do...

What US don't like - when dictators try to gain independency and democracy on those regions...

 

[werepossum]

Yes, god forbid we help people in Haiti, and stop the massacre of muslims in Bosnia.


......

Muslims get pissed off if you stop a good massacre - it offends Allah, peace be on his bloody sword. Just look at iGas's post. If you intervene in a massacre, it pisses them off. If you do NOT intervene in a massacre, it pisses them off. If you retaliate for one of their attacks, it pisses them off. If you don't retaliate for one of their attacks, it pisses them off.

Being Muslim means never having to say you aren't pissed off.

 

[werepossum]

All this speculation about muslim terrorists seems very premature, at the very least. According to the news reports I've seen the only arrest so far (the gunman on the island) was a blond Norwegian. It is possible one person could have done both attacks. This is quite possibly Norway's version of a Timothy McVeigh.

You've really got to wonder, though, how fucked up does someone's mind have to be to deliberately go to a summer camp and gun down unarmed children.

I'll take "Completely fucked up" for $100, Alex.

It blows my mind that some people will argue that the perp or perps should not be put to death.

 

[gingermeggs]

Only the Swedes are smug about the warmongering, both Norway and Denmark are active parts of Nato and there is a lot more US support coming from them.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say we wouldn't have these terror attacks had Afghanistan and Iraq been left alone. Oh, and the leaving troops in Saudi Arabia was a bad idea too. You mess with enough people, some will be bat-shit crazy enough to blow themselves up. Leave them alone and they'll mind their own business. I understand a lot of Americans don't share this point of view and I'm not expecting them too either. My sympathies are with our neighbors, though I fear this will stir up peoples xenophobia.

Totally agree, but how would the 1st world be able to thieve the natural resources of the developing world without the Chaos of War and Control of their political regimes to enable that exploitation?
The secondary infection this cause is immigration and refugees, part to blame in that is the excessively luxuriant lifestyles in the first world countries have lowered the pop. growth, women in the 1st world have unshackled themselves from motherhood.

Immigration is required to bolster productive capacities of those 1st world countries(none of those born in the first world will work for lower end wages, who could blame them for that with the high cost of living in the 1st world- I hear America has lower basic need costs) to pay for the pension schemes of the old, take care of the sick, maintain infrastructure and to educate the young.

It is really sad and disturbing to me to know that if the 3rd world was assisted to develop and advance in its capabilities to self-sustain, instead of what has been going this world would be a far rich place overall.
The infantile mentality of a competition driven society is slowly getting exposed for what it is- archaic and barbaric

This utube made me smile for a while

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc

 

[JS80]

lol @ SandEagle blaming the jews. LOL.

 

[iGas]

Yes, god forbid we help people in Haiti, and stop the massacre of muslims in Bosnia.


......

The US helped Haiti by invaded and occupied the country, because their populous killed a dictator that the US supported. Then the US dissolved their parliament and dictated a new constitution. And, then support every dictator that came out of Haiti.

 

[iGas]

Muslims get pissed off if you stop a good massacre - it offends Allah, peace be on his bloody sword. Just look at iGas's post. If you intervene in a massacre, it pisses them off. If you do NOT intervene in a massacre, it pisses them off. If you retaliate for one of their attacks, it pisses them off. If you don't retaliate for one of their attacks, it pisses them off.

Being Muslim means never having to say you aren't pissed off.

Indonesia is a Muslim centric country and it got the nod from Uncle Sam/weapons/money to ethnic cleansing the Christian Timor Leste, and Christian Chinese.

 

[werepossum]

Indonesia is a Muslim centric country and it got the nod from Uncle Sam/weapons/money to ethnic cleansing the Christian Timor Leste, and Christian Chinese.

And see, it pissed you off. Kinda my point.

 

[SandEagle]

lol @ SandEagle blaming the jews. LOL.

lol @ everyone blaming mooselims without the proof. any fo yo info, i didnt blame teh joos (yet). what i have presented is a plethora of information that shows that this would not benefit the mooselims at all.

btw, JS80, how have you been, my old good buddy? miss me?

 

[Infohawk]

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2011/07/22/general-eu-norway-explosion_8580238.html

Looks like the police are saying it was homegrown.

 

[iGas]

And see, it pissed you off. Kinda my point.

Is it just the Muslim that get piss off if someone stop them from a killing spree?

Or, it is possible that America also get piss off if someone try to stop it from its killing spree?

What did the Vietnamese did to America that America go and invaded it, and killed millions, beside the 58,000 American that died & 350,000 casualty?

What did the Cambodian & Laotian did for the American to bombed it and kill hundred of thousand indiscriminately?

What did the Iraqis did to the US in 2003 to deserve the invasion and the death told of 10 of thousands if not 100 of thousands of people?

How many wars and covert ops has America been in and it is a "Christian" centric country?

What happen to the teaching of "thou shall not kill"?

Your Government start at least 75% of the Wars globally since WWII.

Arms industry

Which country is the world largest arms exporter?

Which country is the world largest oil/energy/commodity consumers?

Which country is the world fattest beside American Samoa & Kiribati?

Which country is the world most ignorant/arrogant/conceded beside North Korea & Israel?

PS, I'm far from being pissed off. I was born and baptized & communion Roman Catholic, but I consider myself Atheist because I believe Religion & mad dog patriotism is stupid. I was born in a war torn country and have seen more than enough atrocities to last a life time, hence I disagree with ignorant fools who love to saber rattle and never have seen the death of war.

 

[Jaskalas]

You've really got to wonder, though, how fucked up does someone's mind have to be to deliberately go to a summer camp and gun down unarmed children.

The kind where you go after anyone that ever knew him.

 

[Mr. President]

More info is starting to filter through in the Norwegian media:

Critical of Islam

In online debates marks Anders Behring Breivik as well read, and one with strong opinions about Norwegian politics. He promotes a very conservative opinions, which he also called nationalist. He expresses himself strongly opposed to multiculturalism - that cultural differences can live together in a community.

Breivik has had many posts on the site Document.no, an Islam-critical site that publishes news and commentary.

In one of the posts he states that politics today no longer revolves around socialism against capitalism, but that the fight is between nationalism and internationalism. He expressed clear support for the nationalist mindset.

Anders Breivik Behring has also commented on the Swedish news articles, where he makes it clear that he believes the media have failed by not being "NOK" Islam-critical.

Link

His Facebook page apparently identifies him as a 'conservative christian' so you guys can stop blaming the muslims and jews for this one.

 

[CanOWorms]

More info is starting to filter through in the Norwegian media:


Link

His Facebook page apparently identifies him as a 'conservative christian' so you guys can stop blaming the muslims and jews for this one.

It doesn't matter. People on this forum think that far-right European violence doesn't exist.

 

[ProfJohn]

So...

Is it better to know that this was a home grown crazy or worse?

I guess as home grown it is much more likely to be a one time event.