Extreme cooling for extreme weather (formerly "Vapochill Case Cooler")

[boardsportsrule]

hey man...dont give up...there are ways around it..just hang in there...im still workin on my stuff so when i am thru ill give u what i have found...this is not the end!

 

[boardsportsrule]

Radiator: 2X black ice extreme (fits 2X 120mm fans on eachside..)


PSU's for it: 2X meanwell PSU's(12V only )


for CPUD maze 4 TEC modle


for NB:mcw-50T modded to fit...with 1/2 ID tubing


for SB:same as NB


for GPu:same sa nb but no mods needed


for mosfets: BGA ramsinks W/ a fan


for hdd:innovatek hd-o-matic2


pump:eheim 1250


resovour: frozencpu.com tundra dual(either 5.25" or 3/5") bay res


fans:8X 120mm energmax adjustable fans


tubing:tygon 1/2" ID tubing


clamps: buncha them....prolly get 20 just to be ssafe


random things( more clamps, grills, temp things, more water etc.)


relay:critcool powerplant


Water: distilled water(90% of the mixture that goes in teh system)car anti freeze(10 of the mixture that goes into the computer)


THERE!!! lol my list is done lmk any Q's u have.... oh and if u have aol instant messenger dont hesitat to contact me at snoboardingrulz3 or email me at BOARDSPORTSRULE13atMSNdotCOM(replace the at with a @ and dot with a . this way spammers cant touch me )

 

[joseangel]

Ok, let this be our "2004 PC challenge" or "How to cool down your PC on a summer siesta".

I have been thinking about the peltier dissipating so much heat from the CPU (yes, I know I gave up but I honestly cannot live without a PC) (Oh, sh*t, I'm an addict). If all heat from CPU must be pumped across peltier to the heatsink, how does SwiftTech manage to get their TEC+water block running? Their embedded peltier is not that big. I do not know if they would even answer, but I will ask them about this.

There is always hope.

 

[boardsportsrule]

with that setup yo ucould cool an oven!!!lol serisouly..hey this isn't the greatest forum for OCING and hardcore cooling...go onto hardforum.com or amdforums.com( I LOVE IT THERE!!! almost 2000 posts ) and post in the liquid cooling...they can help ya big time there(or on the hardforum.com[another greaat one] go the the overclocking and cooling section...they could cool 5 ovens with 1 pelt[dont ask how...they are crazy over there ) i am dead serisous man!!! i want this to work for you, dont give up!!! EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lmk if u have any Q's...and i hope i see ya on amdforums.com or hardforum.com

 

[joseangel]

Many thanks.

I'll have a hard time studying those gadgets you just listed. Just a couple questions before asking at those forums about how to mod GPU block to fit NB & SB.

Why do you chose a TEC+water for GPU and only water for CPU? There is a TEC+water one at SwifTech too, why did you prefer to mod DangerDen's water block instead of using SwifTech's untouched? I know DangerDenMaze4 is amazing but, wouldn't perform better the properly manufactured SwifTech's block than moded Maze4?

What are the 8 fans for? 4 of them for the 2 radiators, 1 for mosfet, but what about the other 3?

If you use heatsinks on mosfet the they need to get as hot as 50-55ºC (10-15ºC minimum diference with forced airflow + my well known 40ºC) before being cooled down. Wouldn't that be too much? I thought about using peltier to rise hot-plate temperature while keeping coldplate below reasonable levels, that way the hot-plate would be above enough over air temperature to allow heat dissipation and cold-plate keeps chip within work range. Shouldn't we follow that rule with mosfet too?

Did I miss it or you just took out RAM cooling?

Surely that list would do the job on 40ºC, but how would that behave when 15ºC? I mean, 40ºC only happens a few days in mid-summer. Most of the time temperature is below that. Lets say 30-35 summer, 15-25ºC spring & autum and 10-20ºC winter (remmember, inhouse temperatures). If air temperature is 10ºC, the Peltier would lower GPU temp around -20ºC. Isn't it too low? I mean, I could take care of adecuate insulation to avoid condensation but, would it be enough for that freezing temperatures? I think peltier voltage control is mandatory with so diferent temperature. Is it possible to get a temp sensor on each device? I mean, have you ever done that?

Thanks for your patience. Hope this has a happy ending.

 

[boardsportsrule]

i guess i should ask what platform this will be on...amd or pentium..then ill get u a good WB

 

[boardsportsrule]

oha nd il answer all those Q's when you tell me ur platform

 

[slaves123]

well jose have you thinked about liquid nitrogen? yes... it souds crazy... but in your conditions... it may be the unique solution

traduction:
bueno jose, pensastes en usar nitrogeno liquido, suena medio loco... pero en tus condiciones... tal vez sea la unica solucion

 

[joseangel]

CPU Intel Pentium IV 2,6GHz HT Northwood core
GPU Sapphire Atlantis Radeon 9800XT (http://www.sapphiretech.com/vga/9800-xt.asp)
MEM Corsair Twinx 1024 Pro 4000 (500MHz)
MOBO Asus P4P800 Deluxe or Abit IS7-G
OS Windows XP
SYS HDD SATA0 Western Digital Raptor 36GB
SWAP HDD SATA1 Western Digital Raptor 36GB
APP/USR HDD PATA2 + PATA3 (RAID 0) - Seagate Barracuda 7200.7 Plus ST3120026A (TOTAL: 240GB)
DVD-ROM PATA0 - LG GDR-8160B (16/48x)
EXT HDD JBOD - Wiebetech BayDock QUAD (http://www.wiebetech.com/products/baydock.html)
DVD-RW Plextor PX-708UF (Externo firewire 400)
CASE Thermaltake Xaser III 2000A White
POWER Enermax EG465AX-VE (G) / (W) FMA (http://www.enermax.com.tw/product-01.htm)
UPS Marca APC


This is the planned system by now. I guess it would change as new thing come out and prices fall. A good way to go would be AMD64 but it is too expensive by now and has less features available (mainly less HDD connectors, USB, FireWire, ...)

CPU is only 2.6 because I wanted to overclock it up to 3.0GHz raising FSB. Corsair DDR500 would allow me to do it easily.

 

[joseangel]

Slave123, liquid nitrogen is too expensive. And it imposes very extreme manipulation caution. You could easily loose your hands if you touch it. No way.

Slave123, el nitrógeno líquido es demasiado caro. E impone precauciones de manipulacion extremas. Puedes fácilmente perder las manos si lo tocas. No es una opcion.

Thanks for your interest.

 

[boardsportsrule]

ok, the mosfets are made to run at 100C so 50 or 60 is fine..

u dont need to cool your ram..not nesesary...maybe on your GPU so get a few EXTRA bga ramsinks

lookup how a peltier works..one side is hot the other cool..the water wont freeze the chip will(or might) and thats fine..

all the fans are on the RAD... two on each side of each radiator...

ya get a swiftech waterblock(mcw-5002 peltier) i thought u were an amd guy

dont get a temp regualtor..just make it condensationproof...loookup how to do this in the instructions....oh btw...sorry for the short answers...i just spent about 30 mintues answering these really nicely and then it didn't send so i am kinda fed up!!! lol, ill edit later if u have any Q's, dont hesitate to ask!!

 

[pelikan]

IMHO using multiple pelts on a system that you use for anything more than bechmarks and testing is not a good idea. They are a pretty severe fire hazard. If the pump stops or you get a leak the pelt can easily burn your house down.

Even if you do live in 40C temps plain watercooling will work fine. A very good watercooling system will keep your water within a few degrees above ambient. You only need to cool your cpu and video card. Good case ventilation will take care of everything else. If you are worried about your hard drive then you could watercool that too.

 

[joseangel]

Originally posted by: boardsportsrule
ya get a swiftech waterblock(mcw-5002 peltier) i thought u were an amd guy

I used to. But P4 show better behavior by now. I will be AMD fan again when Athlon64 become a real option and M$ releases its Windows Longhorn for AMD64.

Ah!, I used to be Linux fan too. Long time ago, at the university. Now I am just a Windows slave.

From AMD+Linux to Intel+Microsoft. What have happened to me? Did I just get old?

 

[joseangel]

Originally posted by: pelikan
IMHO using multiple pelts on a system that you use for anything more than bechmarks and testing is not a good idea. They are a pretty severe fire hazard. If the pump stops or you get a leak the pelt can easily burn your house down.

Is that so? I mean, when pump stops, the hotplate gets extremely hot, but, hot enough to make it burn? I guess the best way would be using temperature sensors on both cold plate and hot plate. On cold plate to avoid condensation and on hotplate to stop the system when overheated.

Are not watter cooling systems usually including a water temperature sensor so when pump stops and water overheats the PC receives an alert or is powered off?

The more I learn about this, the more I think this cooling technologies are not mature enough.

Originally posted by: pelikan
Even if you do live in 40C temps plain watercooling will work fine. A very good watercooling system will keep your water within a few degrees above ambient. You only need to cool your cpu and video card. Good case ventilation will take care of everything else. If you are worried about your hard drive then you could watercool that too.

Do you think so? Would the radiators be able to dissipate heat from, lets say, 45ºC into 40ºC ambient? That means that chips would have a top on almost ambient temperature, and all of them can handle that. Have you seen it anywhere? I mean a cooling test with that ambient temperature?

Cannot remmember if 40ºC is too much for a hard disk. I'll check that.

Thanks for the warning and the suggestion, pelikan.

 

[pelikan]

Originally posted by: joseangel

Originally posted by: pelikan
IMHO using multiple pelts on a system that you use for anything more than bechmarks and testing is not a good idea. They are a pretty severe fire hazard. If the pump stops or you get a leak the pelt can easily burn your house down.

Is that so? I mean, when pump stops, the hotplate gets extremely hot, but, hot enough to make it burn? I guess the best way would be using temperature sensors on both cold plate and hot plate. On cold plate to avoid condensation and on hotplate to stop the system when overheated.

Are not watter cooling systems usually including a water temperature sensor so when pump stops and water overheats the PC receives an alert or is powered off?

The more I learn about this, the more I think this cooling technologies are not mature enough.

Originally posted by: pelikan
Even if you do live in 40C temps plain watercooling will work fine. A very good watercooling system will keep your water within a few degrees above ambient. You only need to cool your cpu and video card. Good case ventilation will take care of everything else. If you are worried about your hard drive then you could watercool that too.

Do you think so? Would the radiators be able to dissipate heat from, lets say, 45ºC into 40ºC ambient? That means that chips would have a top on almost ambient temperature, and all of them can handle that. Have you seen it anywhere? I mean a cooling test with that ambient temperature?

Cannot remmember if 40ºC is too much for a hard disk. I'll check that.

Thanks for the warning and the suggestion, pelikan.

I've seen melted sockets from pelts. They can easily start a fire. You can put a flow or heat sensor on a relay to shut down the pelt. It would definately be safer that way. But you have to build your own because watercooling kits don't come with that and very few people who watercool have these safeguards. We rely on the thermal protection built into modern motherboards to shut down the pc if the cpu gets too hot. That tends to work well for regular watercooling but of course is not a solution for peltier cooling.

For your purposes pelts are just not necessary. In fact I think they would create further problems because you'd have much hotter water to cool down.

If you get a good pump and a large heater core that fits two 120mm fans side by side you could cool the water to within a few degrees of ambient. Your cpu and gpu would probably run 10C hotter than the water depending on which blocks you use, leaving you well within safe operating temperatures.

I think air can cool your hard drives well enough as long as you have an intake fan blowing directly over them.

 

[joseangel]

I see. Any recommendation on watercooler kit? Do you think the one given previously woiuld be enough? I could use Maze4 and its versionfor GPU, I guess. Double pump+double circuit (one for CPU + one for the others)? One pump with big pipe then multiple pipes like an Hydra or a classical parallel electric circuit? ¿One pump and a serial circuit?

 

[pelikan]

One pump, one circuit.

Eheim 1250
D-Tek Whitewater (or RBX)
DD GF4/R9700 Block (or any non-restrictive block)
Dual 120mm fan rad
Four 120mm fans (two for each side of rad)
Two shrouds - make them or buy them
10' 1/2" i.d., 3/4" o.d. tubing (clearflex 60 or tygon)
"T" fitting for fill/bleed
Hose clamps

Run it: pump, rad, cpu block, gpu block, pump - or: pump, cpu block, gpu block, rad, pump - whichever lets you use less tubing.

 

[myocardia]

Jose, this site. has alot of cooling options. All of the ones that I know about, anyway, and their prices seem to be pretty good.

 

[joseangel]

Thanks, I'll have a deep look into that before posting the questions I have now.

 

[boardsportsrule]

so whatcha gonna do?

 

[GreenWolf]

Go to the Be Cooling web site (www.acquastealth.com) and look at the Modified 1/4 hp chiller. Use a water cooling setup without a radiator (just exit the hoses out to the chiller). A lot cheaper than a VaporChill. If you don't like this try a DYI swampcooler.

Description: This is a modified version of the Via Aqua CC25 aquarium chiller. It is modified for controlled water cooling to 0 celsius! What makes this unit so special is the temperature can be regulated as low as just above freezing. Unlike other cpu refrigeration systems, this one allows ANY AND ALL CPU, video card, chipset, ram, HD to be cooled to extreme cold temperature for maximum overclocking potential. To complete the system you will need: Waterblock(s) for devices to be cooled Pump Reservoir - for bleeding air 1/2" tubing to connect it all We recommend a small amount of antifreeze or alcohol be added to the coolant. Remember to use condensation prevention measures on the chips being cooled! Please allow 2 extra days to prep the unit for the modification.

 

[slaves123]

Jose have you planned to move to the north pole? kidding sorry
please tell us what you DO ok?

 

[Big Lar]

In order for this Gent to use any kind of chiller, he would have to insulate his cpu, just like in the old days, as condesation would be a Major factor in the setup, with his ambient temps as they are. I would say a gpu, and chipset cooled by the same coolant be used, in 1 single loop to discourage condensation. I would also say that air flow would be Critical in the environment.

Edit: Picture this, As board makers nowadays are in theory, not too bright/(as to cooling), They place Hot ram modules in front of the cpu, of which incoming air, hits them first? Makes you wonder right? So, we have warm/ or downright Hot air blowing on the cpu/NB area, and without proper insulation of some kind/ we have condensation. Not good. A way around it, would to have a "Blowhole" exhausting out the side, to not only relieve the hot air, but internal case pressure. Big pain in the azz if you ask me. So, To chill, you need a diff plan/ just IMHO.

 

[psiu]

Having read through this thread, I must ask the question:

"Joseangel, can you move? Or sweet talk :heart: the home owner into letting you put a window a/c unit in?"

Perhaps agree to leave it there when you eventually move on, for 50% of the original price. That way, they'll have a cheap improvement for their property, and one which will let them raise the asking price up in the future (or they can take it home and put it on their bedroom, who knows).

As far as attempting to cool, passive heatsinks and fans simply aren't gonna do squat if the ambient temperature is that high. Blowing 40ºC air at 40º parts will NOT cool them. It will also be harder to keep them there, as I think the efficiency drops the closer the heat sink and ambient temps (any thermo/electrical/metallurgical engineers want to hop in here?). That said, I can't think of one modern piece of computer equipment that shouldn't be fine at those temps...

My cheap-ass suggestions would the be:

Take the side panel off during summer and blow the dust out occassionally with some compressed air;
Don't run the computer at peak heat times of the day/back the overclocking down during the summer.

On the other hand, the vapochill thingy looks cool as hell. I just don't know how happy you would be a few years when you didn't need it anymore, and the selling price used will not begin to come close to your initial investment.

This is such a fun topic...I guess I would recommend buying your computer system first. Get a good case for air cooling first, preferably something with room for some 120mm fans. It should also have enough room for any future water-cooling you might add, and (for the moment, at least) enough drive bay for active hard drive cooling. Basically, although those ambient temps are high, I would imagine that a well thought out* air cooling system should handle it. Along with the consideration, that you will keep an eye on it during summer, and throttle back any overclocking you might be doing. One other thing, hang a small thermometer in the computer somewhere, so you can pop the side off and see what the temp is, without having to rely on the motherboard chips and sensors.

* Well thought out: Rounded cables, clean air flow paths, good ratio of intake to exhaust, in the proper locations.

This might be a project to last over a couple of summers. Set up an above average air cooling system this summer with new...(well, it appears to be everything ) components, and record your temps and observations. Remembering to err on the safe side at all times (i.e. if it's going to be the hottest day of the year, and you're not going to be home, turn the computer off). Then, after a winter of poring over your results from the summer, and looking at various alternatives, hop into water/peltier/bathtub full of ice cubes cooling.

Also, good to see you've got a good psu AND a ups on your list. Dunno about Spain, but over the pond here the power grid does not always react well in the summer when they announce on the news to not use your a/c because it's the hottest day of the year. Which simply reminds everyone to trundle over to the a/c and flip it to max . Which means of course, power surges & brownouts...

Oh and, I just remembered, I saw a thread or two somehwere about using a microfridge for cooling. Anyone here know where those were? And if the computer blew up or not?

Good luck jose...:beer:

P.S. Wow, the vapochill site does NOT like Firefox....(or at least my copy). Anyone else have problems with it? IE opened it fine.

 

[StageLeft]

I would seriously consider opening the side of the case and just blowing a sizable house fan at it long-term. This will keep the system temperature within a few degrees of ambient in your room.