Facility 1391: Israel's secret prison

GrGr

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2003
3,204
0
76
Facility 1391: Israel's secret prison

It has been removed from maps and airbrushed from aerial photographs. But Facility 1391 certainly exists - you just have to ask the Palestinians and Lebanese who have been imprisoned and tortured there. Chris McGreal reports

Friday November 14, 2003
The Guardian

The men under the black hoods all have the same question once the blindfolds and manacles are off: Where am I? A voice filtering through a narrow slit in the steel door told Sameer Jadala he was "in Honolulu", Raab Bader that he was "in a submarine" and "outside the borders of Israel", Bashar Jadala that he was "on the moon". None of them imagined it at the time, because only a handful of the political and security establishment knew such a thing existed, but they were prisoners in Israel's Guantanamo: Facility 1391.
"I was barefoot in my pyjamas when they arrested me and it was really cold," says Sameer Jadala, a Palestinian school bus driver. "When I got to that place, they told me to strip and gave me a blue uniform. Then they gave me a black sack. They told me: 'This is your sack. You need to keep it with you. Any time someone comes to your cell, you must put it on your head. Any time they deliver the food, you must put it on your head. You must never see the soldiers' faces. You do not want to know what will happen if you take it off.' Sometimes I thought I would die in that place and no one would ever know."

Facility 1391 has been airbrushed from Israeli aerial photographs and purged from modern maps. Where once a police station was marked there is now a blank space. Sometimes even the road leading to it has been erased. But Israel's secret prison, inside an army intelligence base close to the main road between Hadera and Afula in northern Israel, is real enough. For 20 years or more it has been housed in a large, imposing, single-storey building designed by a British engineer, Sir Charles Taggart, during the 1930s as one of a series of garrison forts designed to contain growing unrest in Palestine. Today, the thick concrete walls and iron gates are themselves protected by a double fence overseen by watchtowers and patrolled by attack dogs.

The prison has held Lebanese abducted by the Israeli army as hostages, Iraqi defectors and a Syrian intelligence officer who tried to defect but was accused of spying and chose to remain in another prison rather than return home and face a firing squad. More recently, scores of Palestinians were incarcerated in 1391 for interrogation, which finally led to the almost accidental disclosure of a prison the state decreed did not exist.

Those who have been through its gates know it is no illusion. One former inmate has filed a lawsuit alleging that he was raped twice - once by a man and once with a stick - during questioning. But most of those who emerge say the real torture is the psychological impact of solitary confinement in filthy, blackened cells so poorly lit that inmates can barely see their own hands, and with no idea where they are or, in many cases, why they are there.

"Our main conclusion is that it exists to make torture possible - a particular kind of torture that creates progressive states of dread, dependency, debility," says Manal Hazzan, a human rights lawyer who helped expose the prison's existence. "The law gives the army enough authority already to hide prisoners, so why do they need a secret facility?"

Unlike any other Israeli prison, the International Red Cross, lawyers and members of the Israeli parliament have been refused access. One leftwing MP, Zahava Gal-On, describes Facility 1391 as "one of the signs of totalitarian regimes and of the third world". The Israeli government declines to discuss the secret prison other than to issue a standard response: "Facility 1391 is situated on a secret military base. The base is used by the security services for various classified activities and thus its location is kept confidential."

But it is not just human rights lawyers and leftwing MPs who have a problem. Ami Ayalon is a former head of Israel's intelligence service, the Shin Bet. He was told about 1391 but says he refused to have anything to do with it. "I knew there was a facility not under the responsibility of the Shin Bet, but under the responsibility of the military. I didn't think then, and I don't think today, that such an institution should exist in a democracy," he says.

etc.


 

Genesys

Golden Member
Nov 10, 2003
1,536
0
0
so, airbrushing over it on the aerial photos...wouldnt that leave some time between the time the photo was taken to the point where it was air brushed for someone who did not know about it to say "hey, what the hell is that thing?"
 

GrGr

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2003
3,204
0
76
Originally posted by: no0b
Is the Guardian Unlimited a repuatable news source?

Very much so. The Guardian is one of the top four national newspapers (broadsheet not tabloid) in the UK. It is quite liberal though
 

JackStorm

Golden Member
Aug 26, 2003
1,216
1
0
Aww, come on, Shad0hawK. You can do better than that. Don't just label it "palestinian propaganda" counter the article. Show us proof that it's a lie. I for one, would like you or someone else, to show proof that what was said in the article was false/lies. With, oh, I dunno, area photos (not that they'd let you near it if the story is true) or hell, anything. Anything beside this over used "Palestinian propaganda" or "Israeli propaganda" reply.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,785
40,278
136
Now guys, what have you been told about this kind of anti-semitic speech? Everyone knows implying that Israel does things like this means you hate all Jews.

 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
2
0
I'm sure they exist. Jews hate Muslims and Muslims hate Jews. There is strong hate between the two and it goes back many years. I am sure if the Palestinians had tanks and guns and an army they would establish these camps as well.

This just shows that the U.S shouldn't be supporting Israel and should just let the two go at it alone. Israel can do whatever it wants and get away with it.
The west has sympathy for them because of suicide bombings, however the west doesn't see the palestinian side of things. When I say the west I mean the U.S, Europe does not seem to be very pro-Israel.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
84
91
so suicide bombing used against civilians as a political tactic is far worse then any prison. doubt that rag writes much about that.
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
2
0
nobody cares what u have to say.. we know u are here represting Israel, they pay u for this.
 

LilBlinbBlahIce

Golden Member
Dec 31, 2001
1,837
0
0
Originally posted by: Shad0hawK
as fine an example of palestinian propaganda i have ever seen.

Are you honestly going to say it is above Israel to torture people? I have seen footage on the BBC and on CNN where they show Israeli troops breaking the arms of people with rocks for throwing stones at troops entering occupied territory, yes, acutually holding them down and breaking their arms slowly. But I guess for people like you and the official AT Israeli apologist extrodinaire OrooOroo, its just propaganda. Both sides have and still act like animals. Just because we kiss one sides ass doesn't make them any better.
 

NogginBoink

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
5,322
0
0
Originally posted by: JackStorm
Aww, come on, Shad0hawK. You can do better than that. Don't just label it "palestinian propaganda" counter the article. Show us proof that it's a lie. I for one, would like you or someone else, to show proof that what was said in the article was false/lies. With, oh, I dunno, area photos (not that they'd let you near it if the story is true) or hell, anything. Anything beside this over used "Palestinian propaganda" or "Israeli propaganda" reply.

Yeah, well there's this secret military base on the moon, see, and political prisoners are held there and made to assemble secret space based nuclear weapons.

The base is airbrushed out of all photographs of the moon.

I challenge you to show me proof that it's a lie.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
84
91
Originally posted by: Aimster
nobody cares what u have to say.. we know u are here represting Israel, they pay u for this.

maybe my paycheck got lost. you mind looking into it for me then?

is that one of the myriad of conspiracy theories you must believe?


i wonder what it makes you and LilBlinbBlahIce? condoners of terrorist violence against civilians. appeasers of those that commit attrocities against civilians for political gain. absolutely blind to the nazi like indoctrination that pervades arab/palestinian society. a culture corrupted by extreme hatred where the lives of their children are expendable, where children worship death. arafats wife who lives in luxury on 100k a month in france said she'd be glad iff her son were a suicide bomber against israelis. sounds like desperation talking right? or perhaps just genocidal hatred.

if the best you've got is broken arms against the slaughter of innocent civilians..

your next desperate response is some incident from long ago, which doesn't compare to todays constant slaughter.
 

JackStorm

Golden Member
Aug 26, 2003
1,216
1
0
Originally posted by: NogginBoink
Originally posted by: JackStorm
Aww, come on, Shad0hawK. You can do better than that. Don't just label it "palestinian propaganda" counter the article. Show us proof that it's a lie. I for one, would like you or someone else, to show proof that what was said in the article was false/lies. With, oh, I dunno, area photos (not that they'd let you near it if the story is true) or hell, anything. Anything beside this over used "Palestinian propaganda" or "Israeli propaganda" reply.

Yeah, well there's this secret military base on the moon, see, and political prisoners are held there and made to assemble secret space based nuclear weapons.

The base is airbrushed out of all photographs of the moon.

I challenge you to show me proof that it's a lie.

Well, you see, I don't know if there is a secret base on the moon. Nor do I feel the need to prove one does exist or doesn't exist

Also, I never claimed that the news about the prison was true or not, as I don't know. I simply wanted Shad0hawK to Backup his statment, as he was the one who was so quick in labeling it propaganda and not backing up his statment with proof.

But hey, things such as proof or fact don't seem to be needed anymore, to backup what you say in these day and age. All you need is, hearsay, half truths and opinion and everything will be fine and dandy.
 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
1
0
Actually, Shad0hawk can't prove it...but he has faith that it's just propaganda.


<---- trying to combine threads.
 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
12,145
0
71
Originally posted by: LilBlinbBlahIce
Originally posted by: Shad0hawK
as fine an example of palestinian propaganda i have ever seen.

Are you honestly going to say it is above Israel to torture people? I have seen footage on the BBC and on CNN where they show Israeli troops breaking the arms of people with rocks for throwing stones at troops entering occupied territory, yes, acutually holding them down and breaking their arms slowly. But I guess for people like you and the official AT Israeli apologist extrodinaire OrooOroo, its just propaganda. Both sides have and still act like animals. Just because we kiss one sides ass doesn't make them any better.

Yea, I surely bet they show that on CNN and the BBC!


Even if they do have a secert prison, dont you think the US Does? What about Britian, France, China, North Korea.
 

LilBlinbBlahIce

Golden Member
Dec 31, 2001
1,837
0
0
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
Originally posted by: Aimster
nobody cares what u have to say.. we know u are here represting Israel, they pay u for this.

maybe my paycheck got lost. you mind looking into it for me then?

is that one of the myriad of conspiracy theories you must believe?


i wonder what it makes you and LilBlinbBlahIce? condoners of terrorist violence against civilians. appeasers of those that commit attrocities against civilians for political gain. absolutely blind to the nazi like indoctrination that pervades arab/palestinian society. a culture corrupted by extreme hatred where the lives of their children are expendable, where children worship death. arafats wife who lives in luxury on 100k a month in france said she'd be glad iff her son were a suicide bomber against israelis. sounds like desperation talking right? or perhaps just genocidal hatred.

if the best you've got is broken arms against the slaughter of innocent civilians..

your next desperate response is some incident from long ago, which doesn't compare to todays constant slaughter.

Trust you to try to imply that by critisizing Israel we condone terrorism. I wonder what makes people like you condoners of collective punishment, land grabs, random arrests and indefinite imprisonment without charge. I wonder how you can so blindly support a goverment that openly furthers apartheid like laws and treats even its own Arab citizens like second class vermin who don't have the same rights and opportunities as their Jewish countrymen. I wonder how you can turn a blind eye at polititians who say things like "we must kill 10 Palestinians for every Jew". I have never condoned terrorism and I always make it a point to note what a terrible and pointless thing it is. I have never once heard you critisize ANYTHING about Israel. I have said Arafat has to go, but have you ever said the same about people like Sharon who do everything in their power to sabotage peace as well? Where is the true Nazi like indoctrination you're talking about? If anyone here seems to hate anyone its you with your chronic Arab/Muslim bashing. Calling them less than human with pretty words is not going to cover up your vitriol.

I don't need to point out anything from a long time ago. Your beloved Israels provide ample evidence of their brutality on an ongoing basis. Just because you have a tank and a hold on America's walet and balls doesn't make what you do right. Both parties have a lot to do. Yes the Palestinians have to stop terrorism, yes they need to have accountable leadership and yes there will always be some people who want Israel off the face of the planet, but Israel's policies do nothing to inspire even moderate Palestinians to not support and dismantle the terrorist infrastructure. Fot the average Palestinian it is the only way to fight back. You are not them so don't feed us your holier than though sh!t about how no civilized human being could ever commit a terrorist act. Walk a mile in their shoes and then talk. I don't condone their actions either, but I can understand or atleast try to understand the motivation behind them. You are the blind one.
 

LilBlinbBlahIce

Golden Member
Dec 31, 2001
1,837
0
0
Originally posted by: Tabb
Originally posted by: LilBlinbBlahIce
Originally posted by: Shad0hawK
as fine an example of palestinian propaganda i have ever seen.

Are you honestly going to say it is above Israel to torture people? I have seen footage on the BBC and on CNN where they show Israeli troops breaking the arms of people with rocks for throwing stones at troops entering occupied territory, yes, acutually holding them down and breaking their arms slowly. But I guess for people like you and the official AT Israeli apologist extrodinaire OrooOroo, its just propaganda. Both sides have and still act like animals. Just because we kiss one sides ass doesn't make them any better.

Yea, I surely bet they show that on CNN and the BBC!


Even if they do have a secert prison, dont you think the US Does? What about Britian, France, China, North Korea.

So because the aforementioned countries have one it makes it OK? Great logic there. By that reasoning we have no grounds to critisize Iran, Saudi Arabia, or even Iraq. And yes, they did show it. Maybe you should stop watching FOX so much.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
84
91
Originally posted by: LilBlinbBlahIce
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
Originally posted by: Aimster
nobody cares what u have to say.. we know u are here represting Israel, they pay u for this.

maybe my paycheck got lost. you mind looking into it for me then?

is that one of the myriad of conspiracy theories you must believe?


i wonder what it makes you and LilBlinbBlahIce? condoners of terrorist violence against civilians. appeasers of those that commit attrocities against civilians for political gain. absolutely blind to the nazi like indoctrination that pervades arab/palestinian society. a culture corrupted by extreme hatred where the lives of their children are expendable, where children worship death. arafats wife who lives in luxury on 100k a month in france said she'd be glad iff her son were a suicide bomber against israelis. sounds like desperation talking right? or perhaps just genocidal hatred.

if the best you've got is broken arms against the slaughter of innocent civilians..

your next desperate response is some incident from long ago, which doesn't compare to todays constant slaughter.

Trust you to try to imply that by critisizing Israel we condone terrorism. I wonder what makes people like you condoners of collective punishment, land grabs, random arrests and indefinite imprisonment without charge. I wonder how you can so blindly support a goverment that openly furthers apartheid like laws and treats even its own Arab citizens like second class vermin who don't have the same rights and opportunities as their Jewish countrymen. I wonder how you can turn a blind eye at polititians who say things like "we must kill 10 Palestinians for every Jew". I have never condoned terrorism and I always make it a point to note what a terrible and pointless thing it is. I have never once heard you critisize ANYTHING about Israel. I have said Arafat has to go, but have you ever said the same about people like Sharon who do everything in their power to sabotage peace as well? Where is the true Nazi like indoctrination you're talking about? If anyone here seems to hate anyone its you with your chronic Arab/Muslim bashing. Calling them less than human with pretty words is not going to cover up your vitriol.

I don't need to point out anything from a long time ago. Your beloved Israels provide ample evidence of their brutality on an ongoing basis. Just because you have a tank and a hold on America's walet and balls doesn't make what you do right. Both parties have a lot to do. Yes the Palestinians have to stop terrorism, yes they need to have accountable leadership and yes there will always be some people who want Israel off the face of the planet, but Israel's policies do nothing to inspire even moderate Palestinians to not support and dismantle the terrorist infrastructure. Fot the average Palestinian it is the only way to fight back. You are not them so don't feed us your holier than though sh!t about how no civilized human being could ever commit a terrorist act. Walk a mile in their shoes and then talk. I don't condone their actions either, but I can understand or atleast try to understand the motivation behind them. You are the blind one.


right, 9/11 was the only way for alqueda to "fight back". and the desperation in iraq created by the awful oppresive and inhumanly brutal us occupation is what creates suicide bombers in bagdad right? or perhaps its the culture of hatred and violence eh? hah. your moral equivalence destroys all distictions to the point of meaningless.

its also a wonder how you concentrate all your lofty standards on only israel when the region is full of cruel regiems that deal with their own palestinians harshly, now allowing them to upgrade their camps or integrate into society. i'd like to see how those regiems would react if palestinians started slaughtering their civilians. oh wait, just look to history.

you'll have to pardon my holier then thou attitude when it comes to attrocities against civilians. i guess if i walked a mile in a nazi's shoes, i'd be for gassing jews too.

so far, only one side spends its time actually killing civilians in large numbers as its primary objective. its funny how palestinians complain of collective punishment when they support suicide bombing civilians. almost 90% of palestinians support suicide bombing against civilians. its not some fringe group that supports colletive punishment, but the overwhelming majority. its almost absurd they'd be surprised they'd recieve collective punishment in return.

bulldozing a suicide bombers house is not equal to blowing up a pizzaria full of women and children, no matter how you twist it.
 

LilBlinbBlahIce

Golden Member
Dec 31, 2001
1,837
0
0
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
Originally posted by: LilBlinbBlahIce
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
Originally posted by: Aimster
nobody cares what u have to say.. we know u are here represting Israel, they pay u for this.

maybe my paycheck got lost. you mind looking into it for me then?

is that one of the myriad of conspiracy theories you must believe?


i wonder what it makes you and LilBlinbBlahIce? condoners of terrorist violence against civilians. appeasers of those that commit attrocities against civilians for political gain. absolutely blind to the nazi like indoctrination that pervades arab/palestinian society. a culture corrupted by extreme hatred where the lives of their children are expendable, where children worship death. arafats wife who lives in luxury on 100k a month in france said she'd be glad iff her son were a suicide bomber against israelis. sounds like desperation talking right? or perhaps just genocidal hatred.

if the best you've got is broken arms against the slaughter of innocent civilians..

your next desperate response is some incident from long ago, which doesn't compare to todays constant slaughter.

Trust you to try to imply that by critisizing Israel we condone terrorism. I wonder what makes people like you condoners of collective punishment, land grabs, random arrests and indefinite imprisonment without charge. I wonder how you can so blindly support a goverment that openly furthers apartheid like laws and treats even its own Arab citizens like second class vermin who don't have the same rights and opportunities as their Jewish countrymen. I wonder how you can turn a blind eye at polititians who say things like "we must kill 10 Palestinians for every Jew". I have never condoned terrorism and I always make it a point to note what a terrible and pointless thing it is. I have never once heard you critisize ANYTHING about Israel. I have said Arafat has to go, but have you ever said the same about people like Sharon who do everything in their power to sabotage peace as well? Where is the true Nazi like indoctrination you're talking about? If anyone here seems to hate anyone its you with your chronic Arab/Muslim bashing. Calling them less than human with pretty words is not going to cover up your vitriol.

I don't need to point out anything from a long time ago. Your beloved Israels provide ample evidence of their brutality on an ongoing basis. Just because you have a tank and a hold on America's walet and balls doesn't make what you do right. Both parties have a lot to do. Yes the Palestinians have to stop terrorism, yes they need to have accountable leadership and yes there will always be some people who want Israel off the face of the planet, but Israel's policies do nothing to inspire even moderate Palestinians to not support and dismantle the terrorist infrastructure. Fot the average Palestinian it is the only way to fight back. You are not them so don't feed us your holier than though sh!t about how no civilized human being could ever commit a terrorist act. Walk a mile in their shoes and then talk. I don't condone their actions either, but I can understand or atleast try to understand the motivation behind them. You are the blind one.


right, 9/11 was the only way for alqueda to "fight back". and the desperation in iraq created by the awful oppresive and inhumanly brutal us occupation is what creates suicide bombers in bagdad right? or perhaps its the culture of hatred and violence eh? hah. your moral equivalence destroys all distictions to the point of meaningless.

so far, only one side spends its time actually killing civilians in large numbers as its primary objective. its funny how palestinians complain of collective punishment when they support suicide bombing civilians.

Tangents tangents. Is that all you ever have? What's happening with AlQaeda and Palestine are too very different things with two very different motivations and philosophies. Comparing them is ignorant. Yes they employ similar means and yes those means are similarly dispicable, what is your point? As long as one side is overwhelmingly more powerful than the other, terrorist tactics will be employed. Its called hitting them where it hurts. The Israelis did it against the British, but of course, to talk about that is to go too far back into the past
. And while I might not agree with the tactics, I don't call violence agains soldiers terrorism so don't even bother bringing in Iraq, we chose to start that fight. And as always you totally diverted my critisism of your inability to look objectively at the situation and answer the claims of injustices commited by Israel. But of course, to do that would completly destroy the foundation of your blind and passionate spokesmenship on behalf of the peaceful and victimized nation.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
84
91
not tangents at all. the israelis went after british soldiers, quite different from the indescrimant forms of terrorism practiced today.

the best you can do is state that some israeli politician said something tasteless, but israelis don't suicide bomb because of this. talk is different from action, and the talk of the palestinian side is far darker.

and its not true that when one side is more powerful then the other that violence is the only answer. donlt create a false dilema. the palestinians have actively chosen violence at every chance they've had

current palestinian/arab terrorism is not all that different. both have political and religious motivations, most being absurd demands that can never be met, and the lesson has been that conceeding political gains in the face of terrorism only helps breed more.

and don't even bring up iraq? they blew up the red cross for f*ck sake.

objectively? while you might not agree with the tactics?
 
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