Facing your own death with belief in no afterlife

[fskimospy]

I think an Atheist would have an easier time dealing with death than a theist. As an Atheist, I don't have to worry about going to hell. Out of the thousands of different gods and religions, are you sure that you picked the right god to worship? Are you sure that you did everything that you're supposed to do in order to get into heaven? Are you sure that your interpretation of $RELIGIOUS_TEXT is correct? Sounds kinda nerve wracking to me.

Well I can't speak for how the religious feel as I've never really been religious, but I know that as an atheist death terrifies me. It's sometimes really disturbing to realize that sometime in the next ~50 years or so I'm going to be gone and I'm never coming back.

While presumably that's better than being poked by a pitchfork for all eternity, I imagine most religious people don't think they are going to hell.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Well I can't speak for how the religious feel as I've never really been religious, but I know that as an atheist death terrifies me. It's sometimes really disturbing to realize that sometime in the next ~50 years or so I'm going to be gone and I'm never coming back.

While presumably that's better than being poked by a pitchfork for all eternity, I imagine most religious people don't think they are going to hell.

Among other things I think it's highly presumptuous that you'll live another 50 years...seize the day my friend.

 

[JD50]

Well I can't speak for how the religious feel as I've never really been religious, but I know that as an atheist death terrifies me. It's sometimes really disturbing to realize that sometime in the next ~50 years or so I'm going to be gone and I'm never coming back.

While presumably that's better than being poked by a pitchfork for all eternity, I imagine most religious people don't think they are going to hell.

Yea, the only reason that I'm scared of death is for my family. I want to grow old with my wife and watch my kids grow up, and I'm pretty sure they'd like to have me around too. Other than that, a quick and painless death doesn't scare me so much.

 

[fskimospy]

Among other things I think it's highly presumptuous that you'll live another 50 years...seize the day my friend.

Haha, you'll notice that I put ~50 years as the upper limit. Considering my medical history longevity is probably not going to be my strong suit.

 

[fskimospy]

Yea, the only reason that I'm scared of death is for my family. I want to grow old with my wife and watch my kids grow up, and I'm pretty sure they'd like to have me around too. Other than that, a quick and painless death doesn't scare me so much.

Well I envy you, because it definitely scares me.

 

[WelshBloke]

Yea, the only reason that I'm scared of death is for my family. I want to grow old with my wife and watch my kids grow up, and I'm pretty sure they'd like to have me around too. Other than that, a quick and painless death doesn't scare me so much.

That's pretty much how I feel. Plus a slight regret at the cool things that I won't get to see.

 

[Retro Rob]

Yea, the only reason that I'm scared of death is for my family. I want to grow old with my wife and watch my kids grow up, and I'm pretty sure they'd like to have me around too. Other than that, a quick and painless death doesn't scare me so much.

Ditto (except the kids part because we don't have any children yet), but I don't fear it, just want it to be while I'm sleep and don't feel anything.

As far as hell is concerned; not a place that exists, unless believers are ready to admit God and Satan are working together -- God giving Satan sustainability by sending him people.

 

[Madwand1]

Yea, the only reason that I'm scared of death is for my family. I want to grow old with my wife and watch my kids grow up, and I'm pretty sure they'd like to have me around too. Other than that, a quick and painless death doesn't scare me so much.

There are no guarantees, and all of that happens without your explicit choice. These days medical science is around to prolong death as much as it can. Of course, they don't regard it as such, and I'm being negative to make a point, but that's the outcome in effect. The process of dying is prolonged, so that you have more time to dwell on your mortality and hope for some miracle of science to come along and cure you. Of course it won't work indefinitely, and you'll have to face death unless it catches you by accident or you willfully blind yourself to the fact and continue hoping to the end.

To those who think that euthanasia offers them a means for control. What if you can't travel or aren't otherwise able to do anything? What if the insurance settlement that your loved ones would receive has conditions against suicide which they would surely invoke given the chance? Suicide is another discussion entire, and is in progress elsewhere on this forum, but the point to be taken in this thread is not whether or not suicide is a legal or moral option, cowardly or not, but that it might not be an option available to you, or you might not choose it, and have to find your peace in other ways.

The question again, is if you had no such choice and had to face your own death with the belief that there is no afterlife, what might someone say to console you, to have you believe that everything will be OK?

 

[Madwand1]

I know that as an atheist death terrifies me. It's sometimes really disturbing to realize that sometime in the next ~50 years or so I'm going to be gone and I'm never coming back.

Thank you for your contribution. If you can think of what it is that makes you afraid and how you might address that fear, and not just fear, but be OK with the loss of everything that you hold dear, existence, I'd like to learn of any of that thought process.

 

[JD50]

The question again, is if you had no such choice and had to face your own death with the belief that there is no afterlife, what might someone say to console you, to have you believe that everything will be OK?

The only thing that would console me is to know that my family will be taken care of. I have a good life insurance policy so no worries there. Console me by telling me that someone will watch out for my wife and kids.

As far as I'm concerned, if I knew that I was going to die then there's really nothing you could say that would make me believe that everything will be OK. Everything won't be OK, I'm going to die. Making up some story about going to a land with fairies and unicorns isn't going to help, assuming I'm still coherent enough to not believe such nonsense.

 

[Madwand1]

The only thing that would console me is to know that my family will be taken care of. I have a good life insurance policy so no worries there. Console me by telling me that someone will watch out for my wife and kids.

As far as I'm concerned, if I knew that I was going to die then there's really nothing you could say that would make me believe that everything will be OK. Everything won't be OK, I'm going to die.

Thank you for your contribution. Do you think you'd have any special difficulty in telling your kids? How would you go about it? I'm sorry, this is a terrible question, but I'm not trying to goad you or make you feel bad. These questions matter to me.

 

[Caravaggio]

TBH most people want a hand to hold more than something metaphysical.

Agreed.
That is so basic, it is helpful to both the person soon to die and their carer/relative.
For me the scary part of an ordinary "winding down to death", as opposed to a sudden stroke or heart attack, is the loss of dignity and control. The double incontinence, weakness, dependency on others and being a burden to others. The forgetfulness and confusion.
Having seen several people go that way lately I have decided to go to Dignitas in Switzerland and spend my last few hours with their team before drinking the bitter syrup. This should be possible in the UK, of course, but unelected Bishops in the House of Lords keep vetoing every such proposal.

I will honour myself as we have honoured our old dogs, and take myself for euthanasia.

As for being dead, I have no worries at all. My DNA will live on in others, as I have borrowed it along the way. My maternal mitochondria which were my batteries will be passed into other bodies. My image might survive in photos and people might say "he looks like old Caravaggio". That is the best we can hope for at the personal level.
In terms of physics, my atoms, post cremation, will survive until the last photon in the universe gives up its energy as the gas cloud cools. We'll all go together then.

 

[Vaux]

The only thing that would console me is to know that my family will be taken care of. I have a good life insurance policy so no worries there. Console me by telling me that someone will watch out for my wife and kids.

As far as I'm concerned, if I knew that I was going to die then there's really nothing you could say that would make me believe that everything will be OK. Everything won't be OK, I'm going to die. Making up some story about going to a land with fairies and unicorns isn't going to help, assuming I'm still coherent enough to not believe such nonsense.

I agree with this and I feel pretty much the same way.

 

[Murloc]

I think you can die even without dealing with it. If religion makes you comfortable about it, good for you. I guess bitter grumpy old people never deal with it.

For me the scary part of an ordinary "winding down to death", as opposed to a sudden stroke or heart attack, is the loss of dignity and control. The double incontinence, weakness, dependency on others and being a burden to others. The forgetfulness and confusion.
Having seen several people go that way lately I have decided to go to Dignitas in Switzerland and spend my last few hours with their team before drinking the bitter syrup. This should be possible in the UK, of course, but unelected Bishops in the House of Lords keep vetoing every such proposal.

I've only seen cats go that way but it's enough to understand what you mean.

 

[Madwand1]

For me the scary part of an ordinary "winding down to death", as opposed to a sudden stroke or heart attack, is the loss of dignity and control. The double incontinence, weakness, dependency on others and being a burden to others. The forgetfulness and confusion.

Of course, we're all conditioned to be ashamed of bodily functions in public and unused to the idea that as we were when we were children, we might become without control and wholly dependent on others.

But we're also adults, and can understand that when someone we love is dying, and losing their facilities, that they don't have to be ashamed or fearful of those matters, which are trivial in comparison to the slow death which they are experiencing.

Hand holding is easy, except when even that causes discomfort, but it leaves larger matters which hold the mind unsettled and unaddressed.

 

[Madwand1]

I guess bitter grumpy old people never deal with it.

You don't have to be old to be bitter, and you don't have to be bitter to not 'deal with it'. It is enough to be afraid, and its converse, hopeful that you'll somehow recover, for you to put off facing death and not saying goodbye to your children and other loved ones. Even if you die long enough to be past that point of hope, if it's not 'OK', how do you accept it, and what do you say to your children?

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

I had a serious brain tumor operation about 20 years ago where the probability of me dying or being significantly impaired for the rest of my life were the most probable outcomes. Any fear I may had have of dying was greatly overshadowed by my fear of living and being a burden to my family for the remainder of my life. There are some things much worse than death imo.

 

[Caravaggio]

Of course, we're all conditioned to be ashamed of bodily functions in public and unused to the idea that as we were when we were children, we might become without control and wholly dependent on others.

But we're also adults, and can understand that when someone we love is dying, and losing their facilities, that they don't have to be ashamed or fearful of those matters, which are trivial in comparison to the slow death which they are experiencing.

Hand holding is easy, except when even that causes discomfort, but it leaves larger matters which hold the mind unsettled and unaddressed.

I don't have an issue with bodily functions, I just don't see why others should have to deal with mine. Shakespeare's 'seventh age of man' is one I hope to skip.

I'm still not quite sure what feature of death particularly concerns you? I have been with dying people at all phases. Is it what Catholics would call the "in extremis" phase? A period of psychological suffering, realisation with or without pain?
You seem to be searching for some flash of sensibility to the fact of imminent finality. If so, yes, I have witnessed that, but only once. There was some fear but more surprise: "By God, I'm going" (from an agnostic).
More often people I have been with have gone very peacefully, without theological debate of any sort.
This from my very elderly mother: "no more tea dear, I think I'm going on a little journey".
When offered a recuperating trip to the south coast of England, while on his death bed, King George the fifth said "ah heck Bognor", then he died. An excellent decision, if you know Bognor Regis.

I detect no final angst in that declaration. But he was the head of the Church of England and renown for his lack of imagination.

As for hand- holding, when the dialogue is done and the breathing is getting rattly, I'm still convinced it remains the simplest way to show love and support.

 

[Caravaggio]

I think you can die even without dealing with it. If religion makes you comfortable about it, good for you. I guess bitter grumpy old people never deal with it.

I've only seen cats go that way but it's enough to understand what you mean.

Then you agree that it is quick, peaceful and painless? I am certainly not arguing for a general euthanasia, but it should be legally available for those who know that is the right decision for them. It should not be canvassed, expected or urged. It should be available more widely to those who seek it, who are clear- headed and rational.

 

[Paul98]

Live life well, enjoy it, don't worry to much about stupid things, if you know you are going to die in the near future do some things you really enjoy. See things you want to see before the end of you life, spend time with people you care about.

For me the better question is why do those who believe in heaven and god don't want to die, spend time/money to extend their life, why are some of them scared of death?

 

[Madwand1]

You seem to be searching for some flash of sensibility to the fact of imminent finality.

On reflection, it's definitely not "some flash of sensibility" at the end which is warranted here, but greater preparation before that. At the very end, it's too late. My question asked what to say to the dying. At some point, saying anything is pointless, and hand-holding, if that, or simple presence may be all that you can contribute, and it's the physical fact of incapacity if not the drugs and other biological effects which keep them peaceful, without discounting the effect that calm human presence can contribute. (But where does that calm come from? If your loved ones are wailing and unable to deal with death themselves, they could be more harmful than helpful.)

Death often comes slowly these days, and there are numerous means, scientific and otherwise, which are offered as means of escape once an illness has been found. It's normal and healthy to look for solutions, but I think that there's also a time to start to prepare for the likelihood that a solution will not be found. My question again, was how can someone who believes that there is no afterlife best mentally prepare for death so that they can face it -- and perhaps then better act on other aspects of preparation for death, such as speaking with their children about their death, instead of attempting to deny it until the point where they can no longer deny it, but also not do anything positive.

 

[woolfe9998]

Thank you for your contribution. If you can think of what it is that makes you afraid and how you might address that fear, and not just fear, but be OK with the loss of everything that you hold dear, existence, I'd like to learn of any of that thought process.

I am pretty terrified of it as well. First, the process of dying itself - the associated pain and disability. That one I think is obvious and most people probably fear that to some degree.

So far as being dead, I fear the loss of all my accumulated experiences and attachments, everything about my consciousness that defines who I am. You spend an entire lifetime accumulating experiences and knowledge, and then in one instant - poof. It's all gone.

 

[Caravaggio]

On reflection, it's definitely not "some flash of sensibility" at the end which is warranted here, but greater preparation before that. At the very end, it's too late. My question asked what to say to the dying.

OK, I think I get your point now.
Well, we should not try to do any soul-saving at the last minute. Another contributor mentioned losing faith and gaining faith as death approaches. People probably feel better to know that their lives had much meaning for others and to be told they have made some worthwhile contribution.

If your loved ones are wailing and unable to deal with death themselves, they could be more harmful than helpful.

Absolutely, that is the worst possible scenario and is not comforting for the terminally ill.

Death often comes slowly these days, and there are numerous means, scientific and otherwise, which are offered as means of escape once an illness has been found.

Agreed. Often too slowly. A friend with terminal cancer went into a local hospice and was discharged as he was not dying fast enough. He was readmitted two weeks later and died the same week. That sort of horror story is explained by the fact that a doctor must justify each injection of morphine. This has the unintended consequence that people suffer longer. Twenty years ago the morphine would have been increased until the patient drifted "off".

My question again, was how can someone who believes that there is no afterlife best mentally prepare for death so that they can face it -- and perhaps then better act on other aspects of preparation for death, such as speaking with their children about their death, instead of attempting to deny it until the point where they can no longer deny it, but also not do anything positive.

I think that question is slightly loaded as it assumes that the faithful go "more gently into that good night". I have heard a devout Catholic man ask for a priest and then shake in fear when the priest arrived. How does that help?
Some of my friends have a rock solid belief in a life everlasting and this might help them.
Personally I can think of nothing worse. What if everlasting life was as boring as waiting in line at an airport security check? What if it was just bland, like the plains of Montana?
When its time to go, carpe diem, it could be your last.

 

[Madwand1]

I think that question is slightly loaded as it assumes that the faithful go "more gently into that good night". I have heard a devout Catholic man ask for a priest and then shake in fear when the priest arrived. How does that help?
Some of my friends have a rock solid belief in a life everlasting and this might help them.
Personally I can think of nothing worse. What if everlasting life was as boring as waiting in line at an airport security check? What if it was just bland, like the plains of Montana?
When its time to go, carpe diem, it could be your last.

This point has been raised earlier, and while it is valid, I consider it off-topic in this thread. I've discussed it further myself, going years back, in this forum. To be clear -- from an anti-hell position if that mention helps to reduce additional distraction. As I've tried to make clear many times from the beginning, I'm not out to compare theologies or non here. I'm specifically asking about those who have a belief in no afterlife, as a real problem, not as an argument for entertainment.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

I don't believe I technically qualify to comment on this subject but it seems to me that there's a question that begs an answer in my opinion..."Why should someone who doesn't believe in the afterlife be afraid to die...especially since they believe that there is no "unknown" to be afraid or anxious about?" In other words, what is there to be afraid of?