Fair question: are atheists effeminate?

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lOl_lol_lOl

Member
Oct 7, 2011
150
0
0
The only way I see your thread title relating to the first post in any way is if you assume that masculinity is associated in some way, with heroism, or selfless sacrifice, or whatever. I don't really agree with this; in fact, I would argue that a masculine society, what I linked to earlier, would be less likely to engage in such behavior.

Prediction of behaviour of 1/2 the human population based on a single biological attribute. I assume that you see it as insignificant to their welfare in society..?

Because I'm assuming that your argument is under the assumption (in my list, I believe) that masculinity is good and femininity is bad.
Yet you consider his 'assumption' invalid because he chose to associate behaviour with a biological attribute?...Inconsistency, inconsistency..Broad generalizations are a hallmark of today's athiest/feminists/etc..and despite being easily destroyed through logic, persist only because of weak individual morals and character...

However, atheists as a group are more educated, more moral, more productive, and more tolerant than their Christian counterparts.

And I assume in your book, 'religious belief' is synonymous with counter-productivity and immorality...Explaining everything about a believing person in the context of religion makes them lesser than athiests I see.

I don't know about the Christians out there, but these are important factors (obviously not the only ones) in deciding whether someone is trustworthy. Moreover, this translates in practice in more secular areas of all sizes performing better politically, socially, and economically better than their more religious counterparts.
If I were to apply the same method to blacks, could I say they are performing worse politically, socially and economically, simply because of rampant poverty, disease and poor education in their community. PC works only in one way I see..
 
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schneiderguy

Lifer
Jun 26, 2006
10,769
52
91
Atheists tend to be libruls and libruls tend to be pussies, so yeah.

One of the exceptions is myself, of course. I'm very manly.
 

Mike Gayner

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2007
6,175
3
0
Most of todays 'atheists' are pseudointellectuals incapable of going through the critical analysis that leads to their 'non-belief'. They fail to adhere to any belief system even if it is nonreligious. This is because they find self-assurance in assuming an infallible position of a non-believer due to absence of any evidence to suggest the presence of a deity.

They are naturally effeminate because they are submissive, they go with the flow and pander to popular opinion wherever and whenever. They defend only commonly held beliefs. Religion excluded, I would expect Dawkins to defend any position he upholds in a debate even if he is in the perceived weaker position.

What a colossal asshole.
 

PowerEngineer

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2001
3,557
734
136
What a colossal asshole.

Opportunities to agree with you don't come around too often, so I want to take advantage of this one.

Both he and the OP seem determined to belittle those who do not share their beliefs. Perhaps this works for them as a way to quickly dismiss other points of view without having to exert the intellectual effort to actually examine them.

I might have said "ego" instead of "ass", but it comes out to pretty much the same thing.
 

lOl_lol_lOl

Member
Oct 7, 2011
150
0
0
What a colossal asshole.

OH! I am scarred by your words!...lol..Use your brain to produce a plausible counter-argument at the very least. Or is finger pointing and name calling the only thing you're good for?

One more thing, I am not even a person of christian faith. I don't give a sh*t what OP thinks. Unlike you and most Christians, I choose to exercise my mind and take the weaker position in an argument. I don't simply grab my koolaid and jump on the bandwagon..like PE here..
 

lOl_lol_lOl

Member
Oct 7, 2011
150
0
0
Opportunities to agree with you don't come around too often, so I want to take advantage of this one.

Thank you for providing more evidence to my earlier post's points.

Both he and the OP seem determined to belittle those who do not share their beliefs. Perhaps this works for them as a way to quickly dismiss other points of view without having to exert the intellectual effort to actually examine them.

I didn't even spout an insult or a derogatory term towards anyone in my arguments..But you did without anything else to say.

I might have said "ego" instead of "ass", but it comes out to pretty much the same thing.

I think the 'ass' following the carrot is you...
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
Prediction of behaviour of 1/2 the human population based on a single biological attribute. I assume that you see it as insignificant to their welfare in society..?

Yet you consider his 'assumption' invalid because he chose to associate behaviour with a biological attribute?...Inconsistency, inconsistency..Broad generalizations are a hallmark of today's athiest/feminists/etc..and despite being easily destroyed through logic, persist only because of weak individual morals and character...



And I assume in your book, 'religious belief' is synonymous with counter-productivity and immorality...Explaining everything about a believing person in the context of religion makes them lesser than athiests I see.

If I were to apply the same method to blacks, could I say they are performing worse politically, socially and economically, simply because of rampant poverty, disease and poor education in their community. PC works only in one way I see..

Sorry to smash your beliefs, but all of our broad generalizations are, in fact, based on many individual statistics tracked over an unimaginable number of circumstances. These are documented everywhere in reputable journals, if you were to open your eyes - and mind for that matter.

What you see as broad generalizations are sometimes, yes, as you say; of course, your generalizations are equally moronic, and patently false according to the truly intellectually-minded research community. However, I'd argue a good portion of the vocal crowd that fits your criteria, are actually fairly knowledgeable of which they speak - but they make the point in as short of form as they can, but refuse to put in the effort going through all the hoops to properly cite everything to prove it properly, to have such a small crowd read it.

However, perhaps I am wrong? I've only dedicated both my undergrad degree (which now I regret), and a surprisingly large amount of my free time beforehand, during school, and continuing after graduation [~2yrs], deep in the annals of the vast journal archives, while also following ongoing research (this I do not regret).
And yes, I've read, thought it was genius, then later determined it was moronic at best. I've also learned not to voice intelligent-sounding points unless I've personally taken in a good amount of data that strongly asserts itself.

At times, I wish I could revert to the more simple-minded view of things, coupled with an ignorance of all that documented data that is waiting out there. It's usually wise to subscribe to the majority, because the majority are in fact such individuals. The total number of vocal religious (and factually wrong on key points) and biased-researched far outnumber us fairly educated, well-versed types (especially Atheist types, but this isn't entirely about that this time). And worse, a lot of those people have yet to bother even stumbling upon the vast amount of information that is now freely and easily at hand.

I think, however, the minority might have a chance...
The more interconnected the global community at large becomes, I think it's going to get pretty ugly for awhile - especially with all this debt and threat of power shifts [another specialty of my time-wasting and part of my degree focus] hanging over half the world - yet ultimately will rebound as more and more people, thanks to a few generations time for the mindset to expand influence, eat up as much information as they can basically get. The "globally-conscious" and educated human might even be numerous enough to have a fair shot at a few good ones having enough power across the globe to actually make some positive changes to lead the way toward the dawn of the, what I am officially calling, the New Age Enlightenment. Not that hippie shit, mind you, simply the start on the right track on man's progress. It'll be a massive epoch in man's history.
Of course, I actually have little expectation we'll make the right choices at crucial moments sure to land on us doorsteps in the next generation if not this one... which will either seriously delay if not ruin any hopes of us surviving ourselves. The longer we hold onto our old ways, coupled with the global community becoming more and more meshed in many ways, the worse it'll get. Not doomsday (though possible) levels, mind you, but it could end up with even more poverty and strife than the world at large has now, even if things improve quite a bit for a few decades prior to that.
 

Locut0s

Lifer
Nov 28, 2001
22,281
43
91
OH! I am scarred by your words!...lol..Use your brain to produce a plausible counter-argument at the very least. Or is finger pointing and name calling the only thing you're good for?

One more thing, I am not even a person of christian faith. I don't give a sh*t what OP thinks. Unlike you and most Christians, I choose to exercise my mind and take the weaker position in an argument. I don't simply grab my koolaid and jump on the bandwagon..like PE here..

The funny thing is that I'm atheist because of the "glory" of the atheistic view of the universe. To me inserting a deity into the mix makes this wondrous world around us so much more banal and bland. Look at a flower, a cell, a star, a planet, a galaxy, think about how they work, how the ebb and flow of it all pays no heed to human beings. How it's all been here billions of years and will continue for billions of years after I'm gone. All this with the EXPLICIT lack of any deity is why I'm an atheist.
 

lOl_lol_lOl

Member
Oct 7, 2011
150
0
0
Sorry to smash your beliefs, but all of our broad generalizations are, in fact, based on many individual statistics tracked over an unimaginable number of circumstances. These are documented everywhere in reputable journals, if you were to open your eyes - and mind for that matter.

What you see as broad generalizations are sometimes, yes, as you say; of course, your generalizations are equally moronic, and patently false according to the truly intellectually-minded research community. However, I'd argue a good portion of the vocal crowd that fits your criteria, are actually fairly knowledgeable of which they speak - but they make the point in as short of form as they can, but refuse to put in the effort going through all the hoops to properly cite everything to prove it properly, to have such a small crowd read it.

However, perhaps I am wrong? I've only dedicated both my undergrad degree (which now I regret), and a surprisingly large amount of my free time beforehand, during school, and continuing after graduation [~2yrs], deep in the annals of the vast journal archives, while also following ongoing research (this I do not regret).
And yes, I've read, thought it was genius, then later determined it was moronic at best. I've also learned not to voice intelligent-sounding points unless I've personally taken in a good amount of data that strongly asserts itself.

At times, I wish I could revert to the more simple-minded view of things, coupled with an ignorance of all that documented data that is waiting out there. It's usually wise to subscribe to the majority, because the majority are in fact such individuals. The total number of vocal religious (and factually wrong on key points) and biased-researched far outnumber us fairly educated, well-versed types (especially Atheist types, but this isn't entirely about that this time). And worse, a lot of those people have yet to bother even stumbling upon the vast amount of information that is now freely and easily at hand.

I think, however, the minority might have a chance...
The more interconnected the global community at large becomes, I think it's going to get pretty ugly for awhile - especially with all this debt and threat of power shifts [another specialty of my time-wasting and part of my degree focus] hanging over half the world - yet ultimately will rebound as more and more people, thanks to a few generations time for the mindset to expand influence, eat up as much information as they can basically get. The "globally-conscious" and educated human might even be numerous enough to have a fair shot at a few good ones having enough power across the globe to actually make some positive changes to lead the way toward the dawn of the, what I am officially calling, the New Age Enlightenment. Not that hippie shit, mind you, simply the start on the right track on man's progress. It'll be a massive epoch in man's history.
Of course, I actually have little expectation we'll make the right choices at crucial moments sure to land on us doorsteps in the next generation if not this one... which will either seriously delay if not ruin any hopes of us surviving ourselves. The longer we hold onto our old ways, coupled with the global community becoming more and more meshed in many ways, the worse it'll get. Not doomsday (though possible) levels, mind you, but it could end up with even more poverty and strife than the world at large has now, even if things improve quite a bit for a few decades prior to that.

I dont mean this sarcastically..but thank you. At least you have the guts and humility to provide a clear answer and not resort to nitpicking and such. Let me tell you I am the first to admit ignorance on the subject and may someday get to research the topic like you, but its constant debate that helps clarify matters and enhances my understanding of the subject. This is out respect to the birthplace of modern science, ancient Greece.

:thumbsup:
 
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Locut0s

Lifer
Nov 28, 2001
22,281
43
91
How does this disprove that athiests are effeminate. I was arguing for submissive, but hey maybe you think Thomas J. was gay or something.

What possible reason would there be to argue that atheist are somehow inherently more effeminate other than a round about "soft" attack on atheism? This sounds similar to those who love to argue about why blacks score lower in standardized tests. Hmm... "I wonder why that is"... type of arguments.
 

lOl_lol_lOl

Member
Oct 7, 2011
150
0
0
The funny thing is that I'm atheist because of the "glory" of the atheistic view of the universe. To me inserting a deity into the mix makes this wondrous world around us so much more banal and bland. Look at a flower, a cell, a star, a planet, a galaxy, think about how they work, how the ebb and flow of it all pays no heed to human beings. How it's all been here billions of years and will continue for billions of years after I'm gone. All this with the EXPLICIT lack of any deity is why I'm an atheist.

I attempt to explain natural phenomena such as those within the context of presence of a diety (Iam of another faith). I apply the same rigorous scientific method, never making illogical claims to try to explain the teachings of my religion to myself. It has only strengthened my faith in my religion as I found an intrinisic consistency in the religious text and beliefs. This may sound stupid, but as you have chosen agnostic belief for yourself I have chosen a 'reverse' parallel of it.

Thanks for your post.:thumbsup:
 

lOl_lol_lOl

Member
Oct 7, 2011
150
0
0
What possible reason would there be to argue that atheist are somehow inherently more effeminate other than a round about "soft" attack on atheism? This sounds similar to those who love to argue about why blacks score lower in standardized tests. Hmm... "I wonder why that is"... type of arguments.

I am partially black myself, but have used every instance of racism directed against me since childhood to understand human nature. I use the knowledge I gain to reason with the next racist. The logic may be primitive, but I am content that I at least make an attempt. Arguing in a constrained manner on a topic, no matter how insignificant it may be, must at the very lest be productive for me...

Also my stance on the topic is more like that of a true athiest attacking mainstreamers who have no knowledge on the subject.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
I dont mean this sarcastically..but thank you. At least you have the guts and humility to provide a clear answer and not resort to nitpicking and such. Let me tell you I am the first to admit ignorance on the subject and may someday get to research the topic like you, but its constant debate that helps get clarify matters and enhance understanding of the subject.

:thumbsup:

If I had actually suspected there was actually going to be somebody like you in this forum/thread, I might have toned the post a little differently. :$

And I applaud your ability to recognize ignorance and earnestly hope to correct such. We're all ignorant on many many topics of concern, my own personal goal is also to continue to take in as much as possible for this and other methods of use - which is what usually leads to my research as I stumble upon something that draws my curiosity.

Likewise on the courage to accept and especially acknowledge in a reply.
 

Locut0s

Lifer
Nov 28, 2001
22,281
43
91
I am partially black myself, but have used every instance of racism directed against me since childhood to understand human nature. I use the knowledge I gain to reason with the next racist. The logic may be primitive, but I am content that I at least make an attempt. Arguing in a constrained manner on a topic, no matter how insignificant it may be, must at the very lest be productive for me...

Also my stance on the topic is more like that of a true athiest attacking mainstreamers who have no knowledge on the subject.

I could post a really long thread on why I'm an atheist but I essentially summed it up above. I find the atheistic world view actually comforting, holistic, and to borrow some religious overtones rather beautiful.
 

lOl_lol_lOl

Member
Oct 7, 2011
150
0
0
I could post a really long thread on why I'm an atheist but I essentially summed it up above. I find the atheistic world view actually comforting, holistic, and to borrow some religious overtones rather beautiful.

I think the comfort lies in the confirmation of ones beliefs, that feeling of reassurance you get when you discover complete coherence between the different elements in a complicated system such as our lives. When each part of your life has inherent meaning and purpose within a logical framework, science, you get true enlightenment and you feel empowered is this what you mean?
 

lOl_lol_lOl

Member
Oct 7, 2011
150
0
0
If I had actually suspected there was actually going to be somebody like you in this forum/thread, I might have toned the post a little differently. :$

And I applaud your ability to recognize ignorance and earnestly hope to correct such. We're all ignorant on many many topics of concern, my own personal goal is also to continue to take in as much as possible for this and other methods of use - which is what usually leads to my research as I stumble upon something that draws my curiosity.

Likewise on the courage to accept and especially acknowledge in a reply.

Thank you too. In the words of Socrates, "The only thing I know is that I know nothing".

but I find hope in,

"Try to know everything about something and something about everything" - Huxley.

Each discovery I make while reading any scientific subject is accompanied by another powerful discovery, how little I know. I realized that scientific thinking is nothing but a logical extension of our sensory perception. When saw a car as a child all I heard and saw was a car. But after reading now I see the beauty of the Internal combustion engine and hear melody of its components. This is how it should be integrated into our daily lives.
 

PrincessFrosty

Platinum Member
Feb 13, 2008
2,301
68
91
www.frostyhacks.blogspot.com
Why not? It's a reasonable question. If atheism is a true belief system or movement, who are the heroes? The people who made sacrifices with their blood sweat amd tears to show their passion and devotion to the belief of the non-existence of God?

I'm sure this has been said already but atheism is NOT a "belief system", it's a single belief or maybe more accurately, lack of belief.

Atheism is not the same as most other -ism's in the sense that it's not a world view or a system of beliefs, the only thing atheists have in common is that they disbelieve in the existence of god.

I don't see any evidence to really suggest atheists are any more effeminate than theists, to be honest this sounds like a very passive aggressive way of insulting a group of people, kind of like asking if Christianity causes paedophilia.
 

BurnItDwn

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
26,122
1,600
126
Why not? It's a reasonable question. If atheism is a true belief system or movement, who are the heroes? The people who made sacrifices with their blood sweat amd tears to show their passion and devotion to the belief of the non-existence of God?

Atheism is not a "belief system" or "movement."

Atheism is simply thinking that the probability of the existence of 1 or more gods is very very low, therefore, staying out of "belief systems" and "movements."
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
Atheism is not a "belief system" or "movement."

Atheism is simply thinking that the probability of the existence of 1 or more gods is very very low, therefore, staying out of "belief systems" and "movements."

:thumbsup:
 

hiromizu

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2007
3,405
1
0
On the flipside the very few religious friends that I have seem to be closeted homos so what's your point other than your and idiot
 

slayer202

Lifer
Nov 27, 2005
13,682
119
106
This thread is still going? It's such a stupid statement to begin with, why bother arguing against it. Just move on
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,472
867
126
Well you can belittle the question sir, but that is not an answer.

Effeminate can have different meanings in different contexts. In this case it doesn't mean homoerotocism, it means a lack of guts, courage, ie cowardly.

How much guts/courage does it take to molest choir boys?
 
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