e: I'm sorry Moonbeam but your reasoning is flawed. The problem with your light bulb analogy is that with the light bulb both states (on and off) are equally probable. The existance of a universe creating sky beardo is not as probable as there not being one, because he is a far far more complex entity then is required for non existence.
M: Is the universe a far more complex entity than can arise out of non-existence? And does the universe not exist within the complexity of your own brain? And I've told you before that the god you don't believe in is not the God that exists. God is God realization, what man can become when the self is transcended and there is only Love. You won't find God in the sky. He is known only through the heart.
e: Secondly you claim that the only reason people can't see the existence of god is that they lack the tools to do so. That's very convenient for your point of view, but unfortunately its totally unpersuasive.
M: It is not convenient at all because the truth of that fact and your inability, unwillingness to accept it, is what makes you blind. It's sort of a tragedy really. But there is some justice here, however, because the truth can't be kept from those who want it and can't be given to those who do not.
e: While I might not be able to see germs with my naked eye, I can borrow the scientists equipment and make my own judgement based upon objective observation. The same is not true for you. (if you are going to claim that it is I would very much like to know what transferrable tools these are that do not presuppose the existence of a higher power)
M: I told you, you just have to die to your ego. You just need intense dissatisfaction or enormous curiosity to see you through.
e: As for the flying spaghetti monster, the magic teapot, etc... yes they DO invent them. I find very little difference between a pasta bowl cooking up the universe and a turtle throwing it up, or Zeus throwing lightning bolts some guy's making on a forge next to him. What is particularly interesting however is that as mankind's understanding of the world around him increases, god invariably retreats. He always fills in the gaps in our understanding, fleeing from the advances of science.
M: Yes, religion is evolving, but so many are stuck in the past with their absolute certainty in their text. They are believers, not people of faith.
e: Even if everything I just said is wrong, the fact that disparate cultures all have creation myths and gods in them is in no way evidence for those gods actually existing.
M: They are all the adumbration of God, the best people can do to understand and explain the sudden experience of the cosmic event that occurs to the mind that achieves a moment of unity and the loss of self.
e: You are attempting to use the logical fallacy 'argumentum ad populum' by saying because lots of cultures have done something that it is evidence it must be right/true.
M: I am not saying anything is right or true, only that the creation of all these myths has the same source, the contact that will continue to happen as long as man exists, with his original and true nature.
e: The amount of people that do it has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on that.
M: The number is rather small. There are many believers but not so many who know.
e: Anyways, I think we had this discussion a long time ago and I don't have any great desire to have it again. (all that crap I just wrote notwithstanding) Feel free to reply and all, but I would much rather just agree to disagree as I feel like we are coming from two points that will never agree because we don't even agree on the premise of the argument.
M: Not a problem for me. There is nothing a person in prison and doesn't know that he is can do if he doesn't want to see that prison. I have only tried to show you that the fact that you do not want to have this discussion arises out of hidden motivation. There are reasons you believe what you do and don't want to hear me. Nothing will happen for you without countenancing that possibility. God is love and love was destroyed by enormous pain. To love again is to die in that pain, to relive your childhood again and recover what was lost. To find God is to walk through hell.