Falcon Northwest or ????

[davidober]

Hello everyone,

I'm jonesin' to drop some $$$ on a nice new system that will play all the latest games at the best settings but I have TONS of questions. I'm a long time gamer, but I've never had the money to really buy a great rig, so I'm always stuck with playing the latest FPS games at less than desirable settings. I'm sick of that, so I'm going to do something about it.

First off, budget. I have set myself a budget of $5000 to $6000 (including monitor and speakers) and have been on the Falcon Northwest site putting together various Mach V systems that all come in around that price range.

My main concern before dumping this kind of cash on a computer is the graphics card set up.

With Direct X 10 coming out soon, should I wait until early next year, or is it okay to go ahead and get a system now with a less than top-end vidoe card (say something in the $300 range) and then upgrade to a Direct X 10 card when they come out?

If I do wait, how do I know that the Direct X 10 card I get will be compatible with my mother board?

My second concern is this: Should I go with a Mach V, or should I have someone build one for me using similar components?

My main goal is to be able to play Crytek's upcoming FPS "Crysis" at max settings. I've heard that all the recent demos showing are run on computers wth Direct X 9 set ups, and they look fantastic, but I'm wondering how much better they'll look in DX10.

I'm rambling here, but now that I've committed to doing this (spending the $$$), I'm starting to get cold feet because I'm unsure of what's the best way to spend the dollars, and also when to pull the trigger.

Any comments from you guys would be greatly appreciated.

 

[inkbrush]

Hey, how are you?
I will give you my two cents on your two questions. Hope other people with more experience will post.

1. About DirectX 10 video card compatibility: I am not 100% sure about this, but DX10 cards initially will be PCI-E and will not have any problem working on a motherboard with PCI-E slots. That is, if you get a top-of-the-line motherboard now with a midrange DX9 video card, you can upgrade to a DX10 card when it comes out later. Running DX9 games on DX10 cards is another matter, though. Some people are saying that DX9 games will not be able to run so well on Windows Vista because Vista will run those games on an emulator. It is a rumor so don't rely on it too much.

2. Mach V vs. Building your own: This really is a matter of preference, but you can save ridiculous amount of money if you build your own. One time, I did a rough estimate of how much it would cost to build a PC similar to a Falcon model using www.newegg.com, and the difference was about $2000. Of course, with Falcon, you get a beautiful case, amazing customer support, good wiring, tested stability, etc., but you are paying a huge premium for that.

If you have not built a PC before, it might be scary or complex, but it's not rocket science. The main thing you need to know is what the standards (memory, CPU sockets, etc) are so that the motherboard and other parts are all compatible. Another option is to hire somebody to build it for you, but I feel hesitant about it because people often use cheap parts to save costs.

So if you really want to save money and build a kicka$$ system, the best option would be to build your own, or find somebody you trust who is knowledgeable about building computers.

If you decide to build your own, here are my very crude guidelines on building your dream machine:
Get a ATX motherboard with SLI.
A lot of reviews recently are saying that the Intel's Core 2 Duo performs much better than AM2 CPU's (an easy topic to start a flame war)
Get a very good power supply even if you have to pay a premium.
The most expensive parts are not always the best. Read reviews on web sites like www.anandtech.com, www.tomshardware.com, www.arstechnica.com.

I hope that can get you started.

 

[ForumMaster]

it goes like this: the higher end the system is, the more premium brands like those take. i would build it myself. do you have the know how? if you do, or are willing to learn, you could save a lot of money and increase your knowledge of computers in general which isn't bad. if you want, you can buy your rig from Falcon but i would suggest something else entirely.

instead of buying a $6000 rig that will be obselete in 1-2 years, build a $2k system and put the rest in the bank. then next year buy another rig. usually turns out better.

 

[dainthomas]

Build it yourself, noob!!

Seriously, you could build the rig to end all rigs with six grand.

 

[Corporate Thug]

With Direct X 10 coming out soon, should I wait until early next year, or is it okay to go ahead and get a system now with a less than top-end vidoe card (say something in the $300 range) and then upgrade to a Direct X 10 card when they come out?

there is a thread in the video that links to an article in tgdaily confirming that G80 (i.e. 8800gt/x) will be coming out in mid november. I think its a better idea just to wait 6 weeks and get the card rather than get a $300 that would be fairly valueless when G80 hits.

If I do wait, how do I know that the Direct X 10 card I get will be compatible with my mother board?

DX10 is going to use the same pci-e that all the cards and motherboards use now, no concern there.

My second concern is this: Should I go with a Mach V, or should I have someone build one for me using similar components?

I think you will end up spending ~$3k for a super high end system instead of 6k if you build your own. this seems like a no-brainer to me.

 

[davidober]

Thanks for the advice everyone.

I've settled on three things for (pretty much) sure:

1. I'm waiting until the new (or maybe they already exist?) ASUS motherboards come out that will support Kensington. That way if I decide to upgrade to quad core architecture a year or so from now, I won't have to upgrade my motherboard too.
2. I'm waiting until NVIDIA's newest DX10 GPU comes out.
3. For now, I'll probably go with the Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 at 2.4 Ghz and overclock it to 3.2 or so, which should definitely be doable (even with mere air cooling) according to this site.

Haven't decided if I'll go with Falcon or a local computer guru. I will NOT be building the system myself, though -- I'm just not into that kind of thing.

 

[sdy284]

Originally posted by: davidober
I'm just not into that kind of thing.

You're not into saving around $2000-$3000 ??

Car salesman must love you

 

[Brainonska511]

Originally posted by: sdy284

Originally posted by: davidober
I'm just not into that kind of thing.

You're not into saving around $2000-$3000 ??

Car salesman must love you

Indeed, it does not take long to build a computer. I assembled my first build within 30-45 minutes. Another hour on top of that to install Windows, drivers, and basic programs. At most, it would take 3 hours to save $2-3 thousand.

 

[Chapbass]

man, let me build it for you then....id have a TON of fun with a 6000 rig. ******, ill even put games on it for you

 

[davidober]

I don't see how I'm going to save anywhere close to $3000 with the same components, but if that's how much I'll save, then I would be interested in doing it myself, of course.

The most recent set-up I've chosen comes in at $5459. If you can show me a way to build the same system with the same components (or VERY similar, with no loss in benchmark performance), then I'm all ears. From the research I've done (which, admittedly, isn't that much), I don't see me saving any more than $1000 or so on such a high-end system.




Chassis SilverStone TJ04 Black Chassis ICON

Power Supply Silverstone 750Watt Modular Power Supply Silverstone

Motherboard Asus P5N32-SLI SE DLX - SLI Capable

CPU Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 2.40GHz

CPU Cooler (Socket T) Zalman CNPS7000LED

Memory DDR2 Corsair 2GB TwinX DDR2 8500C5 W/EPP

Video Card(s) nVidia GeForce 7950 GX2 1024MB

Sound Card Creative Labs X-Fi Fatal1ity

Hard Drive 1 Seagate 400GB 16MB Cache SATA 2

Optical Drive 1 Plextor 760A 16x DVD+-RW Dual Layer

Optical Drive 2 Sony 16X DVD-ROM

Floppy Drive FA404 Int. USB2.0 Flash Media/Floppy

Operating System Microsoft Windows XP Professional Microsoft Windows XP Home (-82)

Keyboard Logitech G-15 Gaming Keyboard

Mouse Logitech G5 Laser Mouse

Monitor Viewsonic VP2330wb 23in. 8ms 1920X1200

Speakers Creative Labs I-Trigue L3800 2.1 Spkrs.

One note: With regard to the monitor, I will probably go with a 30-inch Dell monitor that I can get from my brother in law for about $1200.

This has been interesting so far...

 

[Brainonska511]

Why SLI 7950s? Go with a 975X motherboard and get a crossfire setup which is faster at the higher resolutions. I was bored, so I designed a similar system for less money:

Case: Silverstone TJ04

CD/DVD Burner: Samsung 18x DVD+-RW
CD/DVD ROM: LG Black GDR-8164BK.

HDD: Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 - 400GB, 16MB Cache

Monitor: Acer Silver 24", 1920x1200 (6ms gray to gray)

Video Cards: Asus X1900 Crossfire Master card, PowerColor X1900XTX. I would have chosen X1950XTX cards, but the Crossfire master cards are not out yet.

Sound Card: Creative X-Fi Fatal1ty

Power Supply: Seasonic ATX12V 700W (modular) PSU

Heatsink: Zalman CNPS7700-CU w/120mm Fan

Processor: Intel E6600

Motherboard: P5W DH Deluxe Intel 975X ATX

Memory: Corsair XMS2 2GB (2x1GB) DDR2 800 (Model: TWIN2X2048-6400C4)

Keyboard: Logitech G15
Mouse: Logitech G5

OS: Windows XP Pro with SP2B

Total (pre-shipping): $3504.57

Total (pre-shipping, no monitor): $2,824.58

 

[imported_Uber]

Oh man, if I had 6K to build a system... whoo!
Wait, this isnt considered spam is it?

 

[Brainonska511]

Originally posted by: Uber
Oh man, if I had 6K to build a system... whoo!
Wait, this isnt considered spam is it?

Don't believe so.

 

[inkbrush]

Okay, using www.newegg.com, I configured an identical system, except for a few parts, in which case, I substituted with more expensive parts. The total: $3,429 with shipping cost of 87.75, INCLUDED. So yes, it is full $2000 less than the price you suggested. Here is a very crude copy-and-paste of the shopping cart. I used some random zip code in Milwaukee to calculate the shipping.

Newegg.com - Computers, Computer Parts and Electronics
Shopping Cart

CD/DVD Burners (RW Drives)
Qty. Product Description Unit Price Savings Total Price
1 SONY 16X DVD±R DVD Burner Black IDE Model DWQ120AB2 - OEM
Model #: DWQ120AB2
Item #: N82E16827131031
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
Remove item from Cart Remove Save Save Move To Wish List
$29.99 $29.99
1 PLEXTOR 18X DVD±R DVD Burner included Replaceable beige front bezel Black E-IDE/ATAPI Model PX-760A/SW BL - Retail
Model #: PX-760A/SW BL
Item #: N82E16827249003
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy

Remove item from Cart Remove Save Save Move To Wish List
$109.99 -$10.00 Instant
$99.99
ATX Computer Cases
Qty. Product Description Unit Price Savings Total Price
1 SILVERSTONE SST-TJ07-B Black 4.0mm ~ 8.0mm uni-body aluminum outer frame, 2.0mm aluminum body ATX Full Tower Computer Case - Retail
Model #: SST-TJ07-B
Item #: N82E16811163060
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
Remove item from Cart Remove Save Save Move To Wish List
$319.99 -$20.00 Instant
$299.99
Floppy Drives
Qty. Product Description Unit Price Savings Total Price
1 MITSUMI Black 1.44MB 3.5" Internal USB 2.0 digital card reader with Floppy Drive - OEM
Model #: FA404M BLK
Item #: N82E16821104104
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
Remove item from Cart Remove Save Save Move To Wish List
$19.99 $19.99
Internal Hard Drives
Qty. Product Description Unit Price Savings Total Price
1 Seagate Barracuda ES ST3400620NS 400GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
Model #: ST3400620NS
Item #: N82E16822148157
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy

Remove item from Cart Remove Save Save Move To Wish List
$179.99 $179.99
Monitors - LCD
Qty. Product Description Unit Price Savings Total Price
1 ViewSonic VP2130b Black 21.3" 8ms LCD Monitor - Retail
Model #: VP2130b
Item #: N82E16824116372
Return Policy: Limited Non-Refundable 30-Day Return Policy

Remove item from Cart Remove Save Save Move To Wish List
$599.99 $599.99
Video Cards
Qty. Product Description Unit Price Savings Total Price
1 GIGABYTE GV-3D1-7950-RH Geforce 7950GX2 1GB (512MB x2) GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Dual GPU Video Card - Retail
Model #: GV-3D1-7950-RH
Item #: N82E16814125035
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy

Remove item from Cart Remove Save Save Move To Wish List
$539.99 $539.99
Sound Cards
Qty. Product Description Unit Price Savings Total Price
1 Creative SOUND BLASTER X-Fi Fatal1ty FPS 7.1 Channels PCI Interface Sound Card - Retail
Model #: 70SB046600002
Item #: N82E16829102189
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy

Remove item from Cart Remove Save Save Move To Wish List
$259.99 $259.99
Power Supplies
Qty. Product Description Unit Price Savings Total Price
1 SILVERSTONE ST75F ATX12V/ EPS12V 750W Power Supply - Retail
Model #: ST75F
Item #: N82E16817256009
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy

Remove item from Cart Remove Save Save Move To Wish List
$229.99 -$30.00 Instant
$199.99
Speakers
Qty. Product Description Unit Price Savings Total Price
1 Creative I-TRIGUE L3800 51MF0305AA002 48 Watts 2.1 Speaker - Retail
Model #: 51MF0305AA002
Item #: N82E16836116179
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy

$50.00 Mail-in Rebate
Remove item from Cart Remove Save Save Move To Wish List
$129.99 -$10.00 Instant
$119.99
Fans, Heatsinks (Case, CPU, Chipset)
Qty. Product Description Unit Price Savings Total Price
1 ZALMAN CNPS9500 LED 92mm 2 Ball Blue LED Light Cooling Fan with Heatsink - Retail
Model #: CNPS 9500 LED
Item #: N82E16835118223
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
Remove item from Cart Remove Save Save Move To Wish List
$63.99 -$14.00 Instant
$49.99
Keyboards
Qty. Product Description Unit Price Savings Total Price
1 Logitech G15 2-Tone USB Wired Standard Keyboard - Retail
Model #: 967599-0403
Item #: N82E16823126179
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy

Remove item from Cart Remove Save Save Move To Wish List
$71.99 $71.99
Mouse
Qty. Product Description Unit Price Savings Total Price
1 Logitech G5 Laser 931376-0403 2-Tone 6 Buttons 1x Wheel USB Laser Mouse - Retail
Model #: 931376-0403
Item #: N82E16826104191
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy

Remove item from Cart Remove Save Save Move To Wish List
$45.99 $45.99
Desktop Memory
Qty. Product Description Unit Price Savings Total Price
1 CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model TWIN2X2048-6400C4PRO - Retail
Model #: TWIN2X2048-6400C4PRO
Item #: N82E16820145038
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy

Remove item from Cart Remove Save Save Move To Wish List
$355.00 $355.00
Intel-compatible Motherboards
Qty. Product Description Unit Price Savings Total Price
1 ASUS P5N32-SLI SE Deluxe Socket T (LGA 775) NVIDIA nForce4 SLI X16 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
Model #: P5N32-SLI SE Deluxe
Item #: N82E16813131031
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy

Remove item from Cart Remove Save Save Move To Wish List
$239.99 $239.99
Processors
Qty. Product Description Unit Price Savings Total Price
1 Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 Conroe 2.4GHz LGA 775 Processor Model BX80557E6600 - Retail
Model #: BX80557E6600
Item #: N82E16819115003
Return Policy: Processors (CPUs) Return Policy

Remove item from Cart Remove Save Save Move To Wish List
$316.99 $316.99
Subtotal: $3,429.85
Shipping
Zip Code: 53203
*Enter your Zip Code and select a shipping option to determine your shipping cost.
Shipping: $87.75

 

[davidober]

Thanks very much for that, inkbrush. Much appreciated.

Two quick things off the bat, though, regarding the components you listed:

1) You listed a Viewsonic 21-inch monitor and my system has a 23-inch widescreen monitor

That's a significant cost difference of $400 to $500 right there all by itself.

2) The RAM you listed is not the same as the RAM in my set-up:

Mine: DDR2 Corsair 2GB TwinX DDR2 8500C5 W/EPP
Yours: 1 CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)

If I'm not mistaken, there will be a cost difference here also.

So, somebody initially said I could save $2,000 to $3,000 (I think you said $2000), and it turns out it's actually going to be around $1500 to $1600. Now, here is where it gets interesting for me, because anything short of the $2000 dollar savings mark is where I start to have doubts about building it myself (or having an enthusiast build it for me).

Why? Because I have to place a value on the following "intangibles":

Warranty (by the way, I'm curious: How much is a solid warranty worth to you?)
Customer Service (same question for you)
Cost to pay someone to build it for me (if that's the route I go)
MY TIME (I don't know about you, but my time is worth a LOT to me)

And really, the fourth one is the most important. If I'm going to build this myself (remember, it will be the first system I ever build), I'm probably going to spend a significant amount of learning, reading, and website checking before I even begin. Then I'll actually get the system components and have to put them together. I'd say we're talking a minimum of 15 to 20 hours spent on this project, and my time is valuable to me. I'd rather play two rounds of golf with that time than spend it building a computer, because that's just not what I'm into.

In other words, I'm often willing to trade money for someone else's time, so that I don't have to do something that I a) am not really good at, and don't necessarily want to get good at; b) tend to get frustrated while doing; and c) get no pleasure out of.

Does that make sense? Am I being stupid when I pay a plumber to come fix my plumbing? When I pay a gardener to mow my lawn? A painter to paint my house? I don't enjoy those things and would prefer to do as little of them as possible, so I pay others to do them for me. Some would say all of those things are stupid choices on my part, and I guess you could make that argument, but can you see where I'm coming from?

With my free time, I like to do the following:

Watch movies with my kids/wife
Play golf (golf takes LOTS of time)
Play computer games
Write short stories and screenplays (this also takes LOTS of time)

So I guess the bottom line for me (and people like me) is this:

We have to figure out just how much we'll save by doing it ourself and then put values on the "intangibles" to figure out if paying someone to do it for us makes sense.

Again, thank you so much for doing the price shopping for me, inkbrush. It's much appreciated.

David

 

[bigshooter]

Building a computer isn't rocket science. Things only fit together a certain way. The hardest part is mounting the motherboard to the case. Everything else screws or slides right in. You are hardly looking at 15-20 hours to put this thing together. I'm not sure where you work, but you could probably find an IT guy there (if you're on a name basis with those guys) that will spend an hour or two with you putting one together in exchange for a couple beers. I've helped people build their first systems for similar arrangements. Actually I got really drunk and watched them do all the work. Anyways, I'm not sure how much money you make a year, but even if you're fairly well off isn't there something better you could do with $1000-$2000 such as save for your kids college or take your wife out for a ridiculously expensive night on the town? Hell for $2000 I would almost warranty your system and provide tech support.

I just hate to see people who participate on this forum waste money on components/vendors because they feel uncomfortable building a comp themselves. I guarantee that you won't have $2000 worth of components fail on your computer unless you have a power surge or some other freak event, and in that case most warranties won't cover it anyways.

BTW, wait another month or so and get a G80 based card. If you're already spending close to a grand on video cards you might as well wait and get the absolute fastest thing possible.

 

[davidober]

Thanks for the input, bigshooter. And I've definitely decided to wait until November/December to make sure I can get a G8800 and (hopefully) a motherboard that will support Kentsfield.

As for how much I make, not that much where I can throw money around indiscriminately, but enough to live (reasonably) comfortably. The wife and I make around $150k combined.