Fallout 3 will stink like Deus Ex 2.

[Bateluer]

Originally posted by: tuteja1986
Go jump of bridge you anti fall out 3 nibs !! this game will rock ; ) IT will be like Oblivion and have the fallout look !!

Which is what people are complaining about.

Oblivion and Fallout are VERY different games and share little in common with each other.

Fallout was a more a party oriented, SRPG, with more of an emphasis on story, plot, and dialogue. Oblivion was an FPS with skill trees and pretty graphics.

 

[tuteja1986]

Originally posted by: Sunner

Originally posted by: tuteja1986
Go jump of bridge you anti fall out 3 nibs !! this game will rock ; ) IT will be like Oblivion and have the fallout look !!

As a huge fan of the original games, I must say that sounds truly sucktacular.

I liked fallout for its black humor not for its slow face gameplay.

 

[tuteja1986]

Originally posted by: Bateluer

Originally posted by: tuteja1986
Go jump of bridge you anti fall out 3 nibs !! this game will rock ; ) IT will be like Oblivion and have the fallout look !!

Which is what people are complaining about.

Oblivion and Fallout are VERY different games and share little in common with each other.

Fallout was a more a party oriented, SRPG, with more of an emphasis on story, plot, and dialogue. Oblivion was an FPS with skill trees and pretty graphics.

I DOn't think you played Oblivion long enough... that game has everything but you know its got more than one storyline... go play the guild storyline :!

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: Chaotic42

Originally posted by: Looney
Well, i for one am hoping it's first person. Top-down games were great a decade ago, but i want to explore the world in first person now. You get to see more details and have more interaction with the world in first person than you do top-down.

Then play any of the 300,000 sh-tty FPS games out there. Leave Fallout alone.

What other FPS sci-fi RPG in an open-ended world are out there?

 

[Pugnate]

Gothic, Two Worlds, Morrowind... oh wait you said sci fi.

Wait you are saying sci fi is justification enough for this to be called a 'different' game?

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: Pugnate
Gothic, Two Worlds, Morrowind... oh wait you said sci fi.

Wait you are saying sci fi is justification enough for this to be called a 'different' game?

the fact that FPS games alone are almost always linear, even though some appear not to be. When you can get into completely different endings based on the path you took, that is when it is different. A game may feel like it isn't linear, but tends to just be 'open-linear'. Look to STALKER for being one of the few games of recent that actually has different paths with different endings. Although, it sounds as if that split in the linearity doesn't truly occur until the end. Haven't play STALKER, so I can't truly use it as a strong example.

regardless, I'd guess they might take a RTS/FPS hybrid-style to it. However, since Bethesda doesn't make RTS games, expect that part to be minimal. Mostly, non-existent, save for the camera and party management.
I expect Fallout 3 will have roots to its lineage across the board, just it will be presented differently. I actually wouldn't doubt if they would have the game presented in full 3d, still retain the RPG party aspect, but present the player with the option to zoom above, giving a close to over-the-top camera view, similar to RTS games and games like Brothers in Arms, maybe?
i think that could be enjoyable, if that introduce a method similar to the controls in Brothers in Arms, as that could easily help retain the SRPG element to the game, with completely fresh interpretations as well when they introduce the 3d, first person factor.
i'd enjoy that a helluva lot.

 

[Skacer]

STALKER is pretty linear. The endings are cool, but I definitely wouldn't call it "free roaming" or anything to that sort. I think the thing that makes STALKER feel linear is that a lot of the main maps are right in a straight row. There are some branching paths, but nothing like Fallout where you could hit the world map and walk in any direction.

And Oblivion was a decent game overall, but in comparison to Fallout 1 and 2 it is a freaking joke. The main story is stupid, the 60 portals are a lame method of bloating gameplay (oooh guess what is in this portal, another tower! I bet it has a ramp!), a lot of the landscape is uninteresting, combat is awful, dialogue is dry, and the RPG elements (much like Morrowind) don't amount to much uniqueness. Gothic 3 had a lot more interesting landscape, dialogue and RPG elements, but unfortunately a lot more bugs also.

 

[Dethfrumbelo]

And to those people who say that you can't read all this from a trailer, I agree. What I can read, however, is Bethesda's track record (especially when they cleaned house after Daggerfall, new management, devs - becoming the lean machine that they are today). TES has been dumbed down starting with Morrowind, undergoing an additional lobotomy with Oblivion. Pete Hines made many bold proclamations about Oblivion before its release, and well, most of them were outright lies.

Still, I appreciate that most people don't want any more to their games than what Oblivion has to offer, a simple, quick-to-master, hack-and-slash action game, where you can do everything and earn maximum achievement points in one run through. And it has been a remarkable success, unlike the more complex and open-ended (and buggy) Daggerfall, which was a financial disaster. I just wish they had come up with their own thing instead of hijacking the Fallout name.

This will be Fallout in name and icons only. Sure, they'll probably throw Harold's poor 'ol trodden corpse in there, and the Brotherhood, and maybe even Dogmeat, but the rest will bear no resemblance. I guess the bulk of gamers don't care anyway. Mindlessly gunning down ghouls and mutants with your minigun, dressed up in cool-looking power armor is good enough.

 

[Shadowknight]

Is it so wrong for a company nowadays to optimize a game for a single platform, instead of trying to make it to use on consoles as well?

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: Shadowknight
Is it so wrong for a company nowadays to optimize a game for a single platform, instead of trying to make it to use on consoles as well?

Actually, it would probably be easier to optimize a game for a single console with its locked architecture over a PC with its multitude of possible hardware configurations.

Still, the reason you make multi-platform titles is to get...dum dum dum...more sales. That is ultimately the business these guys are in...selling games.

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: Shadowknight
Is it so wrong for a company nowadays to optimize a game for a single platform, instead of trying to make it to use on consoles as well?

I wouldn't mind if it wasn't for the simple fact that PC to console conversions don't work well, unless it's stuff like sports games, etc, basically games where consoles can actually shine.
Doing a proper Fallout for the 360/PS3 wouldn't work, and they know it, so they're going to make it more console friendly.

 

[Starbuck1975]

I loved the atmosphere of the original Fallout games, but hated the top down perspective and turn based combat.

Keep the dialogue, atmosphere and violent nature of the Fallout world, and ditch the static turn based gameplay for a more dynamic environment.

I will be quite happy if Bethseda delivers an Oblivion like gameplay experience in the Fallout universe.

 

[fierydemise]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
I loved the atmosphere of the original Fallout games, but hated the top down perspective and turn based combat.

Keep the dialogue, atmosphere and violent nature of the Fallout world, and ditch the static turn based gameplay for a more dynamic environment.

I will be quite happy if Bethseda delivers an Oblivion like gameplay experience in the Fallout universe.

Thing is a lot of the RPG fans who really like Fallout don't want oblivion like gameplay, they feel it is shallow and watered down, I think this review sums it up pretty nicely.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: fierydemise

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
I loved the atmosphere of the original Fallout games, but hated the top down perspective and turn based combat.

Keep the dialogue, atmosphere and violent nature of the Fallout world, and ditch the static turn based gameplay for a more dynamic environment.

I will be quite happy if Bethseda delivers an Oblivion like gameplay experience in the Fallout universe.

Thing is a lot of the RPG fans who really like Fallout don't want oblivion like gameplay, they feel it is shallow and watered down, I think this review sums it up pretty nicely.

you mean the "RPG snobs" ... the 'elitists' who think D&D is the pinnacle of gaming ... well, it isn't

Most of these games take hours to unfold and take forever to get interesting. If there are any flaws or the game is "rushed', it destroys the immersion. And there are lost of us who like to just kill things and get right into the action.

i am *hoping* it is more like Oblivion than NWN2. There hasn't been a good module or expansion for NWN2 in over 7 months ... otOh within 6 months, Oblivion was completely *perfected* by its fans and many dozens of hours of excellent plugins were created for it.

 

[Shadowknight]

Originally posted by: Sunner

Originally posted by: Shadowknight
Is it so wrong for a company nowadays to optimize a game for a single platform, instead of trying to make it to use on consoles as well?

I wouldn't mind if it wasn't for the simple fact that PC to console conversions don't work well, unless it's stuff like sports games, etc, basically games where consoles can actually shine.
Doing a proper Fallout for the 360/PS3 wouldn't work, and they know it, so they're going to make it more console friendly.

I wasn't clear, I guess... I just wish companies wouldn't try to make a game that had to straddle BOTH types of interfaces. So, stuff like FO3 could retain it's old school flavor by being computer only.

You can only do so much with a console. Why cripple a good computer game so you can "double dip" and sell to the console crowd?

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: Pugnate
Wait you are saying sci fi is justification enough for this to be called a 'different' game?

Um, yes.

If you wanted the same game, what's to stop you from replaying Fallout? Why make it the exact same game as previous ones?

If you don't want to play it... he's an idea... i know, i know, it sounds wild... but maybe, JUST DON'T PLAY IT. How different is that than what you've been doing for the past 10 years? Are they ripping out Fallout from your computer and replacing it with a newer version without your consent?

 

[40sTheme]

Originally posted by: Dethfrumbelo
It's not about 2D vs. 3D, turn based vs. realtime, or even isometric vs. 3rd person vs. 1st person.

It's about:

"I saw a mudcrab today."

"Horrible creatures."

*snort*

"Have you heard that the Fighters' guild is hiring new members?"

"No."

"Ok."

"Bye."

"Bye."

Time for the Simon Says conversation influence game!

"You don't scare me."

"That's good. How'd it go again?"

"Amazing."

"Don't try to manipulate me."

Time to go poke some level-scaled monsters!

I agree. Stop complaining about camera angles and other pointless crap.
WORRY about the bland, unimaginative, and altogether incoherent dialogue and voice acting known to other Bethesda games.

 

[fierydemise]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: fierydemise
Thing is a lot of the RPG fans who really like Fallout don't want oblivion like gameplay, they feel it is shallow and watered down, I think this review sums it up pretty nicely.

you mean the "RPG snobs" ... the 'elitists' who think D&D is the pinnacle of gaming ... well, it isn't

Most of these games take hours to unfold and take forever to get interesting. If there are any flaws or the game is "rushed', it destroys the immersion. And there are lost of us who like to just kill things and get right into the action.

i am *hoping* it is more like Oblivion than NWN2. There hasn't been a good module or expansion for NWN2 in over 7 months ... otOh within 6 months, Oblivion was completely *perfected* by its fans and many dozens of hours of excellent plugins were created for it.

I doubt most RPG snobs (as you call them) would call DnD the pinnacle of gaming, what we care about is a good story that makes sense, oblivion doesn't have that and it didn't help that Bethesda hyped it beyond all belief. The problem is simple Oblivion wasn't really a bad game, as an action game its decent (although the combat system has some issues in itself) but it was marketed as an RPG and thats what we are scared of. We don't want Bethesda to massively simplify fallout to make it more appeal to a wider market, we don't want an action game with a few token RPG elements, we want a game that is true to the original fallout games.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: 40sTheme
I agree. Stop complaining about camera angles and other pointless crap.
WORRY about the bland, unimaginative, and altogether incoherent dialogue and voice acting known to other Bethesda games.

Bethesda is the only company that can rival South Park in the voice actor to character ratio.

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: apoppinAnd there are lost of us who like to just kill things and get right into the action.

I can certainly relate to that, but that's a different kind of game, a genre that has truckloads of titles out there.
Games like the old Fallouts are pretty much a dying breed though, so it'd be nice to see one more, instead of "Random FPS #2763".

Shadowknight
Brainfart on my part, I see perfectly clear what you meant now, must've had a worm crawling in my brain or something yesterday

 

[shortylickens]

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
Welcome to mainstream console pseudoRPGs AKA shooters with ability (skill) points, levels with a small side of story.

I believe that it is going to be the most commercially successful title in the fallout series by a long shot.

Gone are RPGs that focus on plot, character development and dialog. I doubt we will see an RPG worth noting until Dragon Age. With any luck NWN2's expansion pack will be good, now that they have the toolset and game practically finished and debugged.
EDIT: I was gravely misinformed about mass effect

Thats pretty much how I see it.
Since the end of Baldurs Gate 2 most "role-playing games" have actually been action games with Strength and Intelligence scores.

I am still in high hopes for the new Deus Ex and Fallout titles, but if they stink I wouldnt be suprised either. Maybe LucasArts with authorize another RPG.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: fierydemise

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: fierydemise
Thing is a lot of the RPG fans who really like Fallout don't want oblivion like gameplay, they feel it is shallow and watered down, I think this review sums it up pretty nicely.

you mean the "RPG snobs" ... the 'elitists' who think D&D is the pinnacle of gaming ... well, it isn't

Most of these games take hours to unfold and take forever to get interesting. If there are any flaws or the game is "rushed', it destroys the immersion. And there are lost of us who like to just kill things and get right into the action.

i am *hoping* it is more like Oblivion than NWN2. There hasn't been a good module or expansion for NWN2 in over 7 months ... otOh within 6 months, Oblivion was completely *perfected* by its fans and many dozens of hours of excellent plugins were created for it.

I doubt most RPG snobs (as you call them) would call DnD the pinnacle of gaming, what we care about is a good story that makes sense, oblivion doesn't have that and it didn't help that Bethesda hyped it beyond all belief. The problem is simple Oblivion wasn't really a bad game, as an action game its decent (although the combat system has some issues in itself) but it was marketed as an RPG and thats what we are scared of. We don't want Bethesda to massively simplify fallout to make it more appeal to a wider market, we don't want an action game with a few token RPG elements, we want a game that is true to the original fallout games.

Oblivion IS RPG ... "Role-playing Game" ... it is correctly marketed ... even DM M&M is called "RPG"
... perhaps it doesn't meet your definition of RPG ... what is RPG to you? top down D&D?

Perhaps you don't quite understand the "story" of Oblivion ... it is a hell of a lot better than NWN2's
--and what is the deal of a Great Story ... maybe like Gothic2 -that takes TEN HOURS to even 'get going' ?

i prefer dumbed-down to long and boring where you run around for hours gathering bits of info to add to you diary ...

and i personally think some NPCs should level with you ... i HATE becoming "god" because the Devs decided it is "time" ... your version of RPG is so slow to unfold, MOST people give up on it

Perhaps they should make two versions of it ...

 

[Dethfrumbelo]

Roleplaying is not about stats. It's about the ability to make choices and have the gameworld and/or story altered as a result of those choices. It also helps to have a well-written and imaginative plot and well-developed characters.

This is why I consider Deus Ex to be a bona fide RPG even though it comes in the form of an FPS, more so than the myriad of hack-and-slash fantasy-with-stats action games containing elves, orcs, and the like.

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: Dethfrumbelo
Roleplaying is not about stats. It's about the ability to make choices and have the gameworld and/or story altered as a result of those choices. It also helps to have a well-written and imaginative plot and well-developed characters.

This is why I consider Deus Ex to be a bona fide RPG even though it comes in the form of an FPS, more so than the myriad of hack-and-slash fantasy-with-stats action games containing elves, orcs, and the like.

Agreed.
I guess games like Diablo, Oblivion, etc fall into some sub category of RPG's, action-RPG or something.
I never liked Oblivion, can't say it immersed me, no story worthy of notice(though I didn't play it much, got bored and gave up after a while), uninspiring combat, etc.
Diablo was the same, but at least it had "something" that kept it fun, I guess maybe they simply realized what the game was and tried to make a good "action-RPG" instead of trying to make both a good RPG and action game in one.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: fierydemise

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: fierydemise
Thing is a lot of the RPG fans who really like Fallout don't want oblivion like gameplay, they feel it is shallow and watered down, I think this review sums it up pretty nicely.

you mean the "RPG snobs" ... the 'elitists' who think D&D is the pinnacle of gaming ... well, it isn't

Most of these games take hours to unfold and take forever to get interesting. If there are any flaws or the game is "rushed', it destroys the immersion. And there are lost of us who like to just kill things and get right into the action.

i am *hoping* it is more like Oblivion than NWN2. There hasn't been a good module or expansion for NWN2 in over 7 months ... otOh within 6 months, Oblivion was completely *perfected* by its fans and many dozens of hours of excellent plugins were created for it.

I doubt most RPG snobs (as you call them) would call DnD the pinnacle of gaming, what we care about is a good story that makes sense, oblivion doesn't have that and it didn't help that Bethesda hyped it beyond all belief. The problem is simple Oblivion wasn't really a bad game, as an action game its decent (although the combat system has some issues in itself) but it was marketed as an RPG and thats what we are scared of. We don't want Bethesda to massively simplify fallout to make it more appeal to a wider market, we don't want an action game with a few token RPG elements, we want a game that is true to the original fallout games.

Oblivion IS RPG ... "Role-playing Game" ... it is correctly marketed ... even DM M&M is called "RPG"
... perhaps it doesn't meet your definition of RPG ... what is RPG to you? top down D&D?

Perhaps you don't quite understand the "story" of Oblivion ... it is a hell of a lot better than NWN2's
--and what is the deal of a Great Story ... maybe like Gothic2 -that takes TEN HOURS to even 'get going' ?

i prefer dumbed-down to long and boring where you run around for hours gathering bits of info to add to you diary ...

and i personally think some NPCs should level with you ... i HATE becoming "god" because the Devs decided it is "time" ... your version of RPG is so slow to unfold, MOST people give up on it

Perhaps they should make two versions of it ...

in baldur's gate 2: TOB you *become god*

based on all of the RPG games i've played, i gotta say that DnD 2nd Ed. is my favorite. While TES's system makes logical sense, in gameplay sense it doesn't because it's way too easy to shaft your character, it's a PITA to level, and there's little/no sense of progress (for me at least).

in baldur's gate 2, the story is fantastic, party interaction is great, it's open ended, and there's plenty of action (big boss fights, mobs, dragons, etc.).

and no, a rat should not be able to kill me on "hard" difficulty in oblivion, when i'm slashing it with a sword and throwing fireballs in its face.