Fallout 3 will stink like Deus Ex 2.

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skace

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
14,488
7
81
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Turns out the game has been well received!

Having beaten the game, everything I've said previously came true. And the game is a bit like Deus Ex 2, complete with terrible ending. I know a lot of people will love Fallout 3 for a long time, just like they love Oblivion, it's something about these games where the developer can fuck up 900 different things and people just ignore it.

Need I mention the Enclave base?

I like many of the things they did in Fallout 3, yet so many things, so many basic things fall flat on their face that it hurts. The tricky part in rating a Bethesda game is that they put so much work into it, that you feel bad giving it a score.
 

Eeezee

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2005
9,923
0
0
Originally posted by: skace
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Turns out the game has been well received!

Having beaten the game, everything I've said previously came true. And the game is a bit like Deus Ex 2, complete with terrible ending. I know a lot of people will love Fallout 3 for a long time, just like they love Oblivion, it's something about these games where the developer can fuck up 900 different things and people just ignore it.

Need I mention the Enclave base?

I like many of the things they did in Fallout 3, yet so many things, so many basic things fall flat on their face that it hurts. The tricky part in rating a Bethesda game is that they put so much work into it, that you feel bad giving it a score.

Denial much? I can think of maybe... 3 things wrong with Fallout 3, and one of them is not enough plot. And the comparisons to Deus Ex 2 are ridiculous at best.

And they did reinvent the series, but it's almost nothing like Oblivion. The only thing it has in common is an optional first person perspective and fast travel.
 

StinkyPinky

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2002
6,832
880
126
I played both Fallouts when they were released, and have played them both about three times since then. I'm a hardcore fan.

Do I like Fallout 3?

You bet your ass I do. Awesome game worthy of the title. Plot could have been a bit better, but the gameplay is great, and the atmosphere is perfect. Those NMA people are just stubborn.

Well done Bethesda. Don't really like most of your games, but Fallout 3 was nicely done.
 

PhatoseAlpha

Platinum Member
Apr 10, 2005
2,131
21
81
Fallout 3 does a lot of very basic things very wrong. SPECIAL approaches meaningless, first person action is a joke, very little actually goes into determining success in VATS and fully 80% of the time all other effects are completely eclipsed by range, the world is built like an amusement park instead of any cohesive whole, the plot isn't merely inspired by it's predecessors, it's cut and pasted clipbooked together from them right up until the nonsensical ending sequence, the climax is walking behind a robot followed by one of the most unimpressive 'boss' fights in gaming history followed by a case of acute suicidal stupidity, weapon variety is unimpressive with several weapons that serve no purpose whatsoever, and despite the entire plot being about the vital needs for pure water, never once in the entire game will you actually need to take so much as a single drink.

Cripes, this is a game where they hyped the megaton quest before release and never showed you the 'good' path on that quest.....because the 'good' version of the megaton quest takes all of 10 seconds, if that.

There's a lot to like here guys, but lets be honest, there is plenty right royal suckage too.
 

Born2bwire

Diamond Member
Oct 28, 2005
9,840
6
71
Originally posted by: PhatoseAlpha
Fallout 3 does a lot of very basic things very wrong. SPECIAL approaches meaningless, first person action is a joke, very little actually goes into determining success in VATS and fully 80% of the time all other effects are completely eclipsed by range, the world is built like an amusement park instead of any cohesive whole, the plot isn't merely inspired by it's predecessors, it's cut and pasted clipbooked together from them right up until the nonsensical ending sequence, the climax is walking behind a robot followed by one of the most unimpressive 'boss' fights in gaming history followed by a case of acute suicidal stupidity, weapon variety is unimpressive with several weapons that serve no purpose whatsoever, and despite the entire plot being about the vital needs for pure water, never once in the entire game will you actually need to take so much as a single drink.

Yep, it's just like the first two games but that still doesn't keep it from being awesome.
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
I'm thinking of getting F3 but too many people say it sucks so maybe I should hold out on it. I just need a game to stress my recently purchased 9800GTX+
 

imported_Imp

Diamond Member
Dec 20, 2005
9,148
0
0
Originally posted by: zerocool84
I'm thinking of getting F3 but too many people say it sucks so maybe I should hold out on it. I just need a game to stress my recently purchased 9800GTX+

I believe those are called the vocal minority. I loved it, think it's GOTY material, but can still say that there are some major issues with it. The good still outweighs the bad, then puts it in a potato sack, and kicks the shit out of it though.
 

Eeezee

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2005
9,923
0
0
Originally posted by: zerocool84
I'm thinking of getting F3 but too many people say it sucks so maybe I should hold out on it. I just need a game to stress my recently purchased 9800GTX+

Fallout 3 is awesome. The people who disagree were clearly expecting something very different.

This game is what a modern Fallout game should be. It's not perfect (main plot can be completed in maybe 8ish hours if you ignore all else, SPEICAL is sorta laughable, range is a huge issue at low levels, power armor isn't as good as it should be), but I'm expecting community mods to bridge the gap very quickly. Seriously, the vanilla game was fun enough that I ended up exploring all of the extra little areas. And I HATE Oblivion and its free roaming nonsense.

Modded Fallout 3 will be >> Modded Oblivion
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
Originally posted by: Eeezee
Originally posted by: zerocool84
I'm thinking of getting F3 but too many people say it sucks so maybe I should hold out on it. I just need a game to stress my recently purchased 9800GTX+

Fallout 3 is awesome. The people who disagree were clearly expecting something very different.

This game is what a modern Fallout game should be. It's not perfect (main plot can be completed in maybe 8ish hours if you ignore all else, SPEICAL is sorta laughable, range is a huge issue at low levels, power armor isn't as good as it should be), but I'm expecting community mods to bridge the gap very quickly. Seriously, the vanilla game was fun enough that I ended up exploring all of the extra little areas. And I HATE Oblivion and its free roaming nonsense.

Modded Fallout 3 will be >> Modded Oblivion

That sounds good then. I'll probably pick it up next week then when I get paid. My own little xmas gift.
 

zerogear

Diamond Member
Jun 4, 2000
5,611
9
81
Fallout 3 is a good game. Thats all it is, personally I think it should have been its own IP instead of carrying the Fallout IP.
 

nosfe

Senior member
Aug 8, 2007
424
0
0
yeah, you know something's wrong when all the people compare it to oblivion and not to fallout 1/2
 

skace

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
14,488
7
81
Originally posted by: Eeezee
Denial much? I can think of maybe... 3 things wrong with Fallout 3, and one of them is not enough plot. And the comparisons to Deus Ex 2 are ridiculous at best.

And they did reinvent the series, but it's almost nothing like Oblivion. The only thing it has in common is an optional first person perspective and fast travel.

Yea, I'm in denial. Thing is, I've written about 3 pages worth of complaints about Fallout 3 but I've deleted it all before because it just turns into ranting and raving. And at this point in time, I honestly don't remember many of my complaints because I've gone on to play other games. Fallout 3 was not a classic in my book, when I look back on my favorites, it won't be in the list the way Fallout 1 is. That's the fact of the matter. It never wandered into bad game territory, but it never came close to amazing game territory either. In fact, I played Dead Space after it and found that a MUCH more complete game.

Complaints:
1. A terrible combat system. Bethesda couldn't make a combat system if they teamed with Capcom and they did all the work. In this game they've stepped away from bad sword combat and somehow managed to make bad gun combat. What's wrong with it? Well that's hard to pinpoint, some of it comes down to the retarded AI, some of it falls on a crosshair that seems to want to force you into VATS, some of it falls on VATS, some of it falls on the attempt to shoe-horn RPG style stats onto an FPS. It's a recipe for weapons that never ever feel right and combat that, like Oblivion, you either win or lose by a large margin. And when you're winning it basically comes down to running up to them and blowing their face off 3 inches away because all of the "ranged" combat is incredibly distance handicapped.
2. An awful main plot. Congrats Bethesda, you've done it again. Not only is it short, it's total crap. From the forced capture and destruction of the main enemies base in under 15 minutes to the suicide by radiation while a super mutant named Fawkes was standing right next to me.
3. Itemization is shitty. Itemization in Fallout 3 comes down to a massive number of common weapons and a ridiculous amount of repair, which turns weapons almost into some sort of expendable resource like rations. (I've got 14 chineese assault rifles and 12 rocket launchers, I should be good). Now the decay doesn't annoy me that much more that it feels like they stuffed the decay into the game so that you wouldn't notice how little variety there actually is. There is roughly only 1 unique weapon per weapon class and many of these aren't even satisfying. There is about 2 pistols in the game worth using and the best one is missed if you are even remotely nice to a 90 year old woman. The other is gotten like 2 seconds before the end of the game. This means that most dungeons you explore do not have shit in them except a bobblehead. No bosses (more on that later), most have crappy stories, and usually a sense of unfulfillment as you complete them. Then there is armor, most power armor is garbage, the best armor you get comes from a single quest about Reily's Rangers. This same armor can be worn for roughly 100 hours in the game since nothing competes with it. At the end of the game, you are finally made an honorary member of the lyon's pride, yet you are given basic no name power armor, absolute shit at that point in the game. Something that came as a complete insult considering I was about to follow a massive tower of pain throughout the city and only able to shoot my weapon a good 12 times after that point. All of this reeks of poor itemization.
4. Let's talk more about crappy dungeons. There is a tower in the SW corner of the map, can't recall the name anymore but it has a very Lovecraftian style to it. There are messages about a son coming back to find out what happened to his Dad and some "book". The messages keep getting more and more interesting until..... *drumroll* you pop out near the top of the dungeon with nothing left to do. You never find the book, you never find any creatures from the abyss and you never find any sort of monster that could be considered a boss. It's incredibly disappointing, you end up walking out of the dungeon going "well, at least I got a bobblehead". I ended up collecting all of the Bobbleheads, mainly because of an excessive case of completionism. They could have done so much with all of the dungeons, allowed you to find old relics of the pre-nuke era, stuff to put in your house, stuff to sell for money, new weapons and armor, crazy powerful monsters, etc. But they decided not to do any of that.
5. Then there are the quests. This was supposed to be the saving grace of Fallout 3. Ah yes, they were going to have "that guy who did those brotherhood quests" doing everything this time around. Yet, none of the side quests even matched the Fighters guild much less the Brotherhood. What happened? The quest they hyped to kingdom come was the bomb in Megaton, an atomic bomb that takes an explosives skill of 15 to disarm (uuhhh, what?) so basically every person stepping foot in the new world can disarm the bitch without a problem. There are so many holes in this quest it isn't even funny, why did the religion even let me get close enough to the bomb to disarm it? In Fallout 1/2 that cult would have attacked if I stepped within range of the bomb, forcing me to figure out an intricate strategy if I wanted to disarm it, and it probably would have required 75 explosives, meaning the bomb would have remained active for a larger portion of the game, instead of 15 minutes. And when we get done tearing that quest a new one, we realize none of the other side quests even live up to that one. "The Family" was a slightly interesting quest, unfortunately it's potential was completely lost because once you've solved it there isn't much you can do with The Family. A smarter game would have allowed you to run a dozen or so quests for The Family, building up your reputation, unlocking possible new abilities and getting unique armor/weapons from them. However, I think the only way you can get anything unique from The Family is for robbing the leader, yea great. Then we have quests like the Oasis, one of the more unique areas of the zone however from finding it to leaving it is about 20 minutes. The quest given is incredibly obvious, with the correct answer basically shouted in your face. I guess it could be considered a complex psychological test in just doing what you are told.
6. Another of my problems with Fallout 3 is that some of the more unique locations don't make sense. For instance, we have 3dog who is supposed to be living in one of the more secure buildings in DC yet the place is garbage. They've got basically no defenses except a few sandbags and the area that 3dog and the paladins live in is more akin to what feral ghouls live in. By comparison, we have Lamp Light, which has more style and defenses then basically any other location in the game. Something that may be considered a joke on the developers part but really sticks out as odd. LampLight is something I'd consider adults everywhere would be doing. Building make shift defenses out of whatever is available - Mad Max style fortifications.
7. Just a note, I'm not going to list all of these little complaints, however hacking turrets was basically useless. It came down to the fact that all you could do once you hacked them is wipe their targeting data, which still made them target you. Basically useless. Even though I had 100 hacking, I'd usually end up blowing them up anyways.

Now, this isn't all my complaints. And honestly, it makes the game look worse than I thought it was. I never thought it was a bad game, however, I felt it was mediocre given the potential. So what did I like...

A quick list of likes, Lamp Light obviously, Fawkes and her quest was pretty neat, Reily's Rangers, the beginning, all of the radio stations and radio station related quests, and the general landscape.
 

Liet

Golden Member
Jun 9, 2001
1,529
0
0
It should have been its own IP, instead of turning what were brilliant and thoughtful games into mass-appeal watered-down swill. I HATE games that treat me like I have the IQ of a paper envelope, and try not to offend me by not having any repercussions. "Oh man, the player might feel bad about using a nuclear device to kill an entire town... but if he gives 10 Purified Waters to a hobo his Karma will be repaired"

I have an incredibly long list of issues with Fallout 3, but my biggest disappointment is that so many gamers are willing to accept this incredibly shallow game for GOTY. Very sad.
 

imported_Imp

Diamond Member
Dec 20, 2005
9,148
0
0
Originally posted by: Liet
It should have been its own IP, instead of turning what were brilliant and thoughtful games into mass-appeal watered-down swill. I HATE games that treat me like I have the IQ of a paper envelope, and try not to offend me by not having any repercussions. "Oh man, the player might feel bad about using a nuclear device to kill an entire town... but if he gives 10 Purified Waters to a hobo his Karma will be repaired"

I have an incredibly long list of issues with Fallout 3, but my biggest disappointment is that so many gamers are willing to accept this incredibly shallow game for GOTY. Very sad.

Ah, so it's not really the game itself. It's the fact that it has the "Fallout" franchise name attached to it.

The Karma system is reasonable, obviously it could be better with completely irreversible repercusions, but how is that fun for casual players? A casual player may have felt like blowing up the town, did it, then regretted it. Will he have to start over, or can he somehow "repent"? Bethesda decided on the latter, even though it could be considered unrealsitically retarded. If I recall correctly, Baldur's Gate allowed you to give money to altars to boost reputation/moral standing; nowhere as easy or to the extent as the above example, but the same concept.

And yes, I said casual player. What you see as watered-down and offending your IQ brings in money. I wish there was still an Interplay, but guess what, they went bankrupt cause no one bought enough of their incredible, IQ challenging games. The same goes for Looking Glass Studios and many other game companies. I saw a bunch of used Fallout 3 boxes at an EB the other day. At that time, I had only just finished the game.

And what exactly is so shallow? Is it shallow like last year's GOTY: Call of Duty 4? Oh wow, another run around shoot everyone, weeee, so non-shallow. Maybe Crysis? Wow, super abilities... like Jedi Knight 10 years ago. So let's get down to it, you won't see another Fallout 1/2, Baldur's Gate 1/2, System Shock 1/2 or Thief 1/2. Their margins sucked. It's been this way for years, and I've lowered my expectations to compensate. Maybe as gaming gets more popular, people wil start demanding more again.
 

spittledip

Diamond Member
Apr 23, 2005
4,480
1
81
Meh, i am having alot of fun with Fallout 3. I have only done a little with the main quest and am actually spending alot more time on side quests. This is probably how the game needs to be played. I didn't like Oblivion all that much. Not sure why I enjoy one and dislike the other. I also do not think that the combat system is that bad and the AI is not all that bad either.
 

Liet

Golden Member
Jun 9, 2001
1,529
0
0
Originally posted by: ImpAh, so it's not really the game itself. It's the fact that it has the "Fallout" franchise name attached to it.
Sorry, I'm not sure what you're getting at. Of course it's the game itself. If the game were great, I'd have no problem with it being called a Fallout game. If the latest Star Wars movie were great, people wouldn't have a problem with it being called Star Wars.

The Karma system is reasonable, obviously it could be better with completely irreversible repercusions, but how is that fun for casual players? A casual player may have felt like blowing up the town, did it, then regretted it. Will he have to start over, or can he somehow "repent"? Bethesda decided on the latter, even though it could be considered unrealsitically retarded. If I recall correctly, Baldur's Gate allowed you to give money to altars to boost reputation/moral standing; nowhere as easy or to the extent as the above example, but the same concept.

And yes, I said casual player. What you see as watered-down and offending your IQ brings in money. I wish there was still an Interplay, but guess what, they went bankrupt cause no one bought enough of their incredible, IQ challenging games. The same goes for Looking Glass Studios and many other game companies. I saw a bunch of used Fallout 3 boxes at an EB the other day. At that time, I had only just finished the game.

And what exactly is so shallow? Is it shallow like last year's GOTY: Call of Duty 4? Oh wow, another run around shoot everyone, weeee, so non-shallow. Maybe Crysis? Wow, super abilities... like Jedi Knight 10 years ago. So let's get down to it, you won't see another Fallout 1/2, Baldur's Gate 1/2, System Shock 1/2 or Thief 1/2. Their margins sucked. It's been this way for years, and I've lowered my expectations to compensate. Maybe as gaming gets more popular, people wil start demanding more again.
First, CoD4 and Crysis aren't RPGs - their stated goal isn't to present an intriguing and engaging story while developing a player character... In any case, even Crysis fans admit that the gameplay is mediocre at best, and it's mainly a graphics engine tech demo.

What's so shallow about Fallout 3? Really? Have you played it? It's enjoyable for what it is; a game in which you wander around and kill the same supermutants and raiders over and over and over. There's no purpose to any of it, and every location is pretty much the same. If you've been in one abandoned shack (and picked up the magical neckerchief of Melee Weapons +7), you've been in them all.

Yeah yeah, I take your point about casual gamers and profit margins. It doesn't change the fact that games like Fallout, Planescape, X-Com, Tie Fighter, Deus Ex will always be recognized as brilliant, whereas Fallout 3 is ultimately forgettable. Unfortunately, that doesn't stop me from wanting to play those older, better games.
 
Feb 16, 2005
14,035
5,338
136
I'm having alot of fun playing it, and I guess that's the point, to have fun. I had fun with Oblivion, but never really finished it. This I can see myself finishing. Maybe because it's more of a 'realistic' environment, post-nuclear war, is scenario is still possible, all the mutants and whatnot, who knows, it adds flavor.
Just glad I can play it, built a new system and it's running on max, a few stutters here and there, but other than that, it's smooth, and I love VATS. To each his/her own, and you will never, ever, under any circumstances, make everyone happy.
 

imported_Imp

Diamond Member
Dec 20, 2005
9,148
0
0
Originally posted by: Liet
First, CoD4 and Crysis aren't RPGs - their stated goal isn't to present an intriguing and engaging story while developing a player character... In any case, even Crysis fans admit that the gameplay is mediocre at best, and it's mainly a graphics engine tech demo.

What's so shallow about Fallout 3? Really? Have you played it? It's enjoyable for what it is; a game in which you wander around and kill the same supermutants and raiders over and over and over. There's no purpose to any of it, and every location is pretty much the same. If you've been in one abandoned shack (and picked up the magical neckerchief of Melee Weapons +7), you've been in them all.

Yeah yeah, I take your point about casual gamers and profit margins. It doesn't change the fact that games like Fallout, Planescape, X-Com, Tie Fighter, Deus Ex will always be recognized as brilliant, whereas Fallout 3 is ultimately forgettable. Unfortunately, that doesn't stop me from wanting to play those older, better games.

But the issue was that people were considering it as GOTY, not RPGOTY. More than enough people find it fun, and are enjoying it for what it is: a fun, RPG-FPS game that is based on an old and really good RPG.

I played Fallout 3 for over 100 hours. Less than 10 of those were spent on the main quest. Your breakdown of the game can be done with everything, including RPGs such as your beloved Fallout. Go to point A, kill, retrieve item, go to point B, return item, sell loot, throw some dialogue here and there, click a few pre-drawn/scripted locations on map, cause some video to play, feel good/bad or just feel 'it'. The last, most important part seems to be missing for you.

It just sounds like you didn't "click" with this game, so I'll just give you that. I don't click with a bunch of games, even after trying hard to like them. The pisser is that I paid for it and had to try so hard, yet failed.
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
When something is called Fallout3 it will get compared to the previous Fallouts. I'm going to buy it regardless next week cus L4d and Enemy Territory: Quake Wars aren't stressing my system enough.
 

TBSN

Senior member
Nov 12, 2006
925
0
76
People will probably hate me for saying this, but I feel like Fallout 3 was the closest I've come to playing Deus Ex. The first one. The awesome one. They are both awesome, RPG/FPS games.
 

Barfo

Lifer
Jan 4, 2005
27,554
212
106
Originally posted by: zerocool84
When something is called Fallout3 it will get compared to the previous Fallouts. I'm going to buy it regardless next week cus L4d and Enemy Territory: Quake Wars aren't stressing my system enough.

Get Crysis?
 

Pocatello

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 1999
9,754
2
76
Originally posted by: TBSN
People will probably hate me for saying this, but I feel like Fallout 3 was the closest I've come to playing Deus Ex. The first one. The awesome one. They are both awesome, RPG/FPS games.

I've been playing Fallout 3, and nothing else. Great game.
 

slayer202

Lifer
Nov 27, 2005
13,682
119
106
I can't stand this game. garbage IMO. I didn't played the first 2 games, but I don't see enough story in this one to actually make that big of a difference. The game just isn't fun at all...
 

marmasatt

Diamond Member
Jan 30, 2003
6,573
21
81


Funny how people's opinions differ. I played both FC2 and Crysis:Warhead and I could barely get through one and didn't finish the other. I absolutely love Fallout 3. Five hours in in two nights, and I don't generally play games like that (usually an hour a shot).
 
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