Fallout 4 - it's official! Coming Nov 10, '15

[GusSmed]

The quarry has always been buggy for me. Basically, it doesn't load the geometry correctly when I first approach. It initially sticks with what looks like low level-of-detail stuff intended to be viewed from a distance. The blurry gray floors are not solid.

However, if I save the game, exit, and reload, the proper geometry loads and the problem goes away.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Mark,
No mods but I'll certainly check the other. To be honest I'm just running with the settings the game auto detected so really have no idea.

Gus,
That's exactly what happened to me on the front end. I think I'll try the save/load approach before tinkering with settings.

 

[Markbnj]

Mark,
No mods but I'll certainly check the other. To be honest I'm just running with the settings the game auto detected so really have no idea.

Gus,
That's exactly what happened to me on the front end. I think I'll try the save/load approach before tinkering with settings.

I didn't realize others were having the same issue. First I heard of it. If it's the same issue Gus described that's quite odd. The game should automatically load higher level of model detail as you approach the geometry, and that is all automatic. I've seen cases in the past where the models were just missing or overwritten, but then they wouldn't get loaded on a save/restore cycle. Quite odd.

 

[Fingolfin269]

I'll give it a shot tonight or tomorrow to see if it takes care of the issue. Could be we have some commonality in our system that is the root cause.

Anyway, completely off the technical topic here, but I was hoping to get a bit of character advice. I basically went the middle of the road method of 4s across the board to start. Used the initial special book to increase charisma to 5.

I know this character will not be great at anything but should be at least average at everything. But with that said, is there anything you guys can think of that I'm going to regret later in going this path?

FYI, I have no specific weapon path or must have skill as frankly I don't know any better.

 

[werepossum]

Just started playing yesterday. Visited an area after starting construction of Sanctuary where you have to jump in the water and help a guy repair some pipes. Already having fun falling through the floor.

Is this kind of bugginess what I have to look forward to for most of the game?

I had exactly that problem when I first played through, with no mods and FPS capped at 60. Highly irritating since it's hard on the eyes, I regularly fell through what looked like solid ground, and later on enemies were shooting me through what looks like solid walls. Oddly, I had that problem early on but it fixed itself. Reloading saves after dying did not fix it for me, but after the first two visits, it never happened again. Never happened anywhere else either, although in some sections of elevated freeway, companions would be wading waist deep in asphalt. lol I think maybe the first or second patch fixed it all for me.

 

[KIAman]

I'll give it a shot tonight or tomorrow to see if it takes care of the issue. Could be we have some commonality in our system that is the root cause.

Anyway, completely off the technical topic here, but I was hoping to get a bit of character advice. I basically went the middle of the road method of 4s across the board to start. Used the initial special book to increase charisma to 5.

I know this character will not be great at anything but should be at least average at everything. But with that said, is there anything you guys can think of that I'm going to regret later in going this path?

FYI, I have no specific weapon path or must have skill as frankly I don't know any better.

This version of Fallout places the importance of your development on your perks more than your attributes. Think of your attributes more of a requirement to unlock the perks you want. And the rare times you actually need a specific attribute to do something, there is a ton of armors/clothing and drugs that will temporarily increase them.

 

[Phoenix86]

This version of Fallout places the importance of your development on your perks more than your attributes. Think of your attributes more of a requirement to unlock the perks you want. And the rare times you actually need a specific attribute to do something, there is a ton of armors/clothing and drugs that will temporarily increase them.

Bingo. There's a couple things you are kind of forced to specialize in such as weapon type, you really need to keep one type maxed. However the base weapons (melee, pistol, rifle, demo) aren't deep in the tree. A 4s build will be fine and long as you don't spread your perk points around. None of the 8-10 attribute requirement perks are -that- good, most of the "required" stuff is less than 6.

 

[Qbah]

Can't wait for the new survival mode Already planning my new character

Strength 3 - for Armorer - with bobblehead and book I might spec into heavy later if enough points available (missile launcher with tracking = win)
Perception 5 - for Demolition plus Rifleman
Endurance 4 - for Chem resist (Jet = awesome! Psychotats, Overdrive and Mentats up all the time? even better)
Charisma 3 - for Lone Wanderer (Dogmeat at most with me), might also take Salesman so I can easily afford stuff when visiting towns and selling for cap (cap = no weight)
Intelligence 10 - Nerd rage ('oops'), Nuclear Physicist (FCs will weigh like 2 lbs each, can carry a few at most), Chemist (30s Jet, 45s Ultra Jet, 24min Psychotats / Overdrive), Science (PA mods, energy gun mods), Gun Nut (more mods), Robotics Expert (mostly for the DLC, but also makes any robot encounter trivial - might skip)
Agility 1 - don't need anything, not gonna use VATS (maybe for an occasional guaranteed crit hit)
Luck 2 - for Scrounger (and maaaaybe Fortune Finder)

Your char will carry a lot less (like 100lbs less by default), ammo and stimpacks will have weight too. You will need to eat and drink (the rad removal upgrade on PA helm will be a godsent). There will be sicknesses, you gotta use new meds to heal them. Also no fast travel means it really matters what you carry with you. And how long a FC lasts... I'll be playing in realtime with rifles, since no more insane amount of ammo possible and no more 5-6 guns on you (so gotta make each shot count and use 1-2 weapons at most).

Anyone else looking forward to the new Survival mode?

 

[werepossum]

I wonder if Survival mode will require starting a new game? I can see the reduced weight carry limits and lack of fast travel making settlement building an awful grind. As it is, I make periodic loot caches and after clearing an area, use the console cheat to carry all my loot back at once. Many, many trips without fast travel would probably make crafting and settlement building unplayable for me. For the other, my preferred play style for Fallout 3 and New Vegas was as an atmospheric shooter; I played in real time (hella hate forty-five minute days), with very dark nights and interiors, everything has a reasonable weight, with almost no weapon and armor degradation and very, very lethal weapons. Shoot first or die. Well, at least hit first or die. In the vanilla games I really, really hated having to lug three or four sets of armor and five-six copies of the same weapon because a weapon would wear out to functional uselessness within a single firefight. (Whereas food stayed edible and water and electricity stayed on for over two hundred years. Go figure.)

Fallout 4 is at least very slightly better in this regard, except that other settlements still have little or no visible means of support. Would make more sense if all existing power were long dead and the only way to have any power would be to either start a local generator (with fuel oil or a fusion core) or rig up some Rube Goldberg contraction to power up a terminal long enough to use it. As it stands, even removing a fusion core from the generator merely makes the lights flicker a bit. Also, it blows that I can craft some incredibly intricate weapon mods (albeit weighing almost thirty pounds) with junk but cannot build a building that is enclosed and has a heat source. Also blows that a two hundred plus pound animal yields a pound of meat and a reasonably large tree produces twenty pencils' worth of wood.

 

[Qbah]

Here's the thing... you hoard loot. Do you sell it afterwards for caps? Do you scrap it for raw materials? Do you use the caps / raw materials afterwards? I stopped doing that cause all the stuff I was picking up just ended up in the workbench D: So all I pick up now is ammo and stimpacks, I sell other ammo for caps / ammo I use, I don't even bother to pick up anything else (except the first two or three hours when I build up ammo / stimpack reserves)

 

[uallas5]

I might try survival on a new character where I'll purposely avoid doing the settlement thing even though building and defending is one of my favorite parts of the game. Like werepossum said, the weight carry limits and lack of fast travel will make building and defending settlements almost impossible. I mean every battle to "defend X settlement" will be long over before you even trudge 1/4 of the way across the map.

Weight not be as bad if you're willing to grind out the carrying of loot to a central settlement in the beginning AND pore the points in Charisma to get the Local Leader perk later on. But that's going to be hours and hours of game playing just walking back and forth carrying hotplates and microscopes.

It would be interesting to have a more realistic approach about ammo and weapons and healing items because of the weight though. More like STALKER which is one of my all time favorite games.

 

[Craig234]

So, it's on sale ($30, GMG, $24 Season Pass) - what's the verdict, when I have Fallout 2, 3, NV in the backlog, for the game or game + season pass?

 

[Fallen Kell]

At this point you are probably better off waiting on a GoTY edition and just make some progress on the previous games. You don't need to do them in any kind of order. That said, I liked the setting/feeling of 3 better than NV, but NV was the better game.

 

[GusSmed]

Here's the thing... you hoard loot.

It's difficult not to. To a certain degree, having Local Leader 2 helps, because you can build a set of shops next to your workbenches so you can sell all that stuff as fast as it comes in. Otherwise, going on sales trips to places like Abernathy Farm and Diamond City is a production.

Of course, that means you need to have a use for those caps, which means either 1) being a lot more willing to spend money at the local scrap dealer or 2) saving for the exceptionally expensive unique items. Note that (1) is also helped by Local Leader 2 since you can buy scrap regularly.

If you're into building elaborate settlements, it's worth noting that Abernathy Farm sells wood, and Diamond City sells steel. Shipments are overpriced, but if you're running short of wood to build that classy apartment complex for your settlers, instead of the standard ghetto barracks, it's the one way to get bulk supplies. I didn't run short of either in runs 1 or 2, but in run 3 I seem like I'm constantly running short because I'm making stuff that's actually liveable rather than just functional.

Side note on building: a decent interior pretty much requires mods, if for no other reason than the vanilla parts don't allow interior doorways. Your choices without mods are either a big barracks or lot of little huts.

Another use for that loot is equipping your settlers. This is semi-functional, unlike the "build nice places" thing, since well-armed and armored settlers are a lot more help in an attack than the standard settlers with street clothes and pipe pistols. Settlements that are close to hostile spawns (i.e. The Slog, Finch Farm) particularly benefit.

That said, even though I'm doing this stuff, I still have a crap-ton of loot at Sanctuary Hills, and I still can't bring myself to stop picking up more.

 

[GusSmed]

So, it's on sale ($30, GMG, $24 Season Pass) - what's the verdict, when I have Fallout 2, 3, NV in the backlog, for the game or game + season pass?

If you have 3 and NV in your backlog, I think it's safe to say you should play those first. Just because you don't know yet whether you like the series. 4 adds a lot of stuff, and improves a lot of mechanics, but if you don't like 3, you're unlikely to like 4. Also, if you haven't summoned the energy to play the earlier games - which are excellent - you probably won't ever get around to playing 4.

Fallout 2 is a different animal than 3 or NV. It's an old-school isometric turn-based RPG, where 3 / NV / 4 are FPS's with substantial RPG elements. It's possible to like 2 and not like 4, and vice versa, even if the background is the same.

 

[werepossum]

Here's the thing... you hoard loot. Do you sell it afterwards for caps? Do you scrap it for raw materials? Do you use the caps / raw materials afterwards? I stopped doing that cause all the stuff I was picking up just ended up in the workbench D: So all I pick up now is ammo and stimpacks, I sell other ammo for caps / ammo I use, I don't even bother to pick up anything else (except the first two or three hours when I build up ammo / stimpack reserves)

I tend to craft two or three weapons to the highest level I can get and stick with power armor until I get the Courser armor, so I don't really keep track of what all is in my workbenches. I link every settlement to Sanctuary Hills, so after level 30 or so, generally speaking I have no limit on building except the built-in "Nothing more can be built". FWIW I did the same in Fallout 3 and New Vegas, but I only played those heavily modded and used the junk to craft ammo, etc. Basically I'm a virtual hoarder.

For some reason, I have had zero luck with energy weapons. At more than twenty paces, enemies literally dodged out of the way of laser and plasma beams. WTF? I recently tried again with a modded-up plasma rifle, but nothing I shot seemed to take any damage, even at knife range. I also had a bug with an infinite ammo .308 rifle; evidently modding up the receiver broke it, because while the name is the same, I shot out every single .308 round without realizing what I was doing. Was a very tense time in the South West quadrant armored with nothing more than a 10mm pistol!

I might try survival on a new character where I'll purposely avoid doing the settlement thing even though building and defending is one of my favorite parts of the game. Like werepossum said, the weight carry limits and lack of fast travel will make building and defending settlements almost impossible. I mean every battle to "defend X settlement" will be long over before you even trudge 1/4 of the way across the map.

Weight not be as bad if you're willing to grind out the carrying of loot to a central settlement in the beginning AND pore the points in Charisma to get the Local Leader perk later on. But that's going to be hours and hours of game playing just walking back and forth carrying hotplates and microscopes.

It would be interesting to have a more realistic approach about ammo and weapons and healing items because of the weight though. More like STALKER which is one of my all time favorite games.

Agreed. I once figured up weight of ammo in 3 or NV and I was carrying over three tons of ammo. If the guns are reasonably realistic (i.e. deadly) so that you don't need a bazillion rounds and several specialized guns, then ammo having weight is a good thing.

So, it's on sale ($30, GMG, $24 Season Pass) - what's the verdict, when I have Fallout 2, 3, NV in the backlog, for the game or game + season pass?

Depends. Visually Fallout 4 is much better, but except for pop-in distance, you can mod up Fallout 3 and New Vegas to look every bit as good. Stability and game play in vanilla are much, much better in 4 than in previous games. So if you're cool with spending a lot of time investigating, loading and debugging mods, I'd agree with Fallen Kell, just hold off until the GOTY edition comes out, probably next Christmas. If on the other hand you're fond of pretty, atmospheric post-apocalyptic shooters with a very thin veneer of dumbed down RPG and you want to play it without spending tens of hours making it run properly, that's an excellent price for a pretty good game that's not even a year old. You can't really go wrong either way.

 

[GusSmed]

For some reason, I have had zero luck with energy weapons. At more than twenty paces, enemies literally dodged out of the way of laser and plasma beams.

I'm pretty sure they didn't actually dodge the beam while it was in transit. I've certainly never seen any hostile dodge a projectile that wasn't super-slow like the Alien Blaster.

Things that might have happened:

- A regular dodge, where they moved out of the way between the time you acquired aim and the time you clicked the trigger. When we talk about "dodging bullets" in real life, that's what they're doing, not actually moving after the bullet is in flight.

- Bad accuracy, where the beam didn't go where you aimed. This shouldn't happen with laser or plasma rifles, but the pistols have a moderately high spread when aimed out of VATS. My understanding is that they aren't 100% accurate when fired manually unlike Fallout 3 lasers.

- A miss in VATS, though I'm pretty sure you're not talking about VATS.

- Projectile hit an obstacle. Lasers and bullets don't do this, but plasma and alien blaster projectiles are big fat things that hit cover instead of the target all the time.

Plasma weapons can be kinda weak against targets with high projectile and high energy resistance. They're a bit slow firing, and split their high damage between energy and ballistic damage, which get resisted separately.

 

[Phoenix86]

Lasers and bullets don't do this, but plasma and alien blaster projectiles are big fat things that hit cover instead of the target all the time.

Never had a problem with lasers at all, but this turned me off of plasma big time. I could deal with the projectile slowness a bit, didn't like it but it wasn't a deal breaker.

 

[Qbah]

Lasers do not have perfect accuracy outside of VATS. Far from it. The beam is not always hitting where you're aiming, especially visible with auto barrels. They are fairly accurate (and I really enjoy using them), but they're not perfect aim.

 

[werepossum]

I'm pretty sure they didn't actually dodge the beam while it was in transit. I've certainly never seen any hostile dodge a projectile that wasn't super-slow like the Alien Blaster.

Things that might have happened:

- A regular dodge, where they moved out of the way between the time you acquired aim and the time you clicked the trigger. When we talk about "dodging bullets" in real life, that's what they're doing, not actually moving after the bullet is in flight.

- Bad accuracy, where the beam didn't go where you aimed. This shouldn't happen with laser or plasma rifles, but the pistols have a moderately high spread when aimed out of VATS. My understanding is that they aren't 100% accurate when fired manually unlike Fallout 3 lasers.

- A miss in VATS, though I'm pretty sure you're not talking about VATS.

- Projectile hit an obstacle. Lasers and bullets don't do this, but plasma and alien blaster projectiles are big fat things that hit cover instead of the target all the time.

Plasma weapons can be kinda weak against targets with high projectile and high energy resistance. They're a bit slow firing, and split their high damage between energy and ballistic damage, which get resisted separately.

That's the things though: They DID dodge out of the beam's path. Over and over and over. Switch to rifle, nail them every time. Switch to plasma or laser, they dodge four feet sideways every time. Almost instantaneously. I've had to close to almost knife range to actually hit them. Especially with the plasma, although since we don't have actual plasma weapons and it is commonly represented in games as moving much slower than bullets, maybe that can make a bit more sense, but if it isn't visibly dropping then it should not be dodge-able.

And no, I don't use VATS at all.

 

[GusSmed]

Switch to plasma or laser, they dodge four feet sideways every time. Almost instantaneously.

I've never, ever seen this in some 350+ hours of play.

 

[DaveSimmons]

So, it's on sale ($30, GMG, $24 Season Pass) - what's the verdict, when I have Fallout 2, 3, NV in the backlog, for the game or game + season pass?

FO4 is a lot of fun, but so are the others. I agree you might as well wait for the GOTY version for half the cost and play 2, 3, NV while you wait. 2 and NV have the best writing, 3 and 4 have the best open worlds.

 

[werepossum]

I've never, ever seen this in some 350+ hours of play.

Maybe it's because I didn't try energy weapons until in the 70s or 80s level, but it was very, very noticeable to me. Not just that I was missing, but how far they were displacing horizontally when they dodged. Plasma in particular was virtually unusable unless I charged the target. (With raiders and flying creatures anyway; I never noticed supermutants dodging, but their health also didn't noticeably drop as it did with bullets.)

 

[GusSmed]

Not just that I was missing, but how far they were displacing horizontally when they dodged.

I use energy weapons extensively, and I've never seen it. I'm in the middle of my third playthrough, and I'm using Righteous Authority (the crit-focused laser rifle you get from Danse) repurposed as a laser pistol extensively. Hundreds of rounds fired both in and out of VATS and no abrupt dodges just because I've fired a laser at them.

Similarly, I built a laser sniper rifle, which I've only ever fired at targets from long distances, and no dodging. Misses are pretty darned rare.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Lasers good, plasmas not good.