Fallout 4 - it's official! Coming Nov 10, '15

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GusSmed

Senior member
Feb 11, 2003
403
2
81
Part of why you'll see more all rounders starting out is because FO4 only gives you 21 special points to start out with vs 40 in FO3. So if you start with a 7 in agility and 8 in endurance you'd only have 8 additional points to distribute among your other 5 stats that start out at 1. The difference in FO4 is every level you can choose a perk or another special point.
This, pretty much. After playing FO3 and NV, putting 1's or 2's in several traits feels like a crippled build. Yet any degree of specialization at the start of FO4 seems to demand very low scores in the other stats. Since FO3 gave you a perk every level and let you choose +1 SPECIAL as a perk, that part feels the same, so overall you're starting from a lower level.

We have to remember that we're speculating here. We don't know what the game's going to be like yet. Will be advancement be relatively quick? Does the designer expect that we'll spend a lot of Perk points on SPECIAL increases, so the starting stats aren't that important?

According to the updated Wiki page, some of the perks have a level 50 requirement. While 50 isn't an upper limit, it does suggest that the design does expect players to reach 50 before stopping. So 49 perks at least. That's 20 more perks than you can get in FO3 without mods, and 24 more than you can get in New Vegas, unless you use mods to remove the level limits.

The Fallout 4 perks seem at least as powerful as the perks in the earlier games, and often more powerful. By level 50 you could take 29 perks (the limit in FO3, with Broken Steel) and 20 SPECIAL points and end up with a total of 48 SPECIAL points, or 8 more than you have in FO3. And there's no cap holding you to that.
 

escrow4

Diamond Member
Feb 4, 2013
3,339
122
106
This, pretty much. After playing FO3 and NV, putting 1's or 2's in several traits feels like a crippled build. Yet any degree of specialization at the start of FO4 seems to demand very low scores in the other stats. Since FO3 gave you a perk every level and let you choose +1 SPECIAL as a perk, that part feels the same, so overall you're starting from a lower level.

We have to remember that we're speculating here. We don't know what the game's going to be like yet. Will be advancement be relatively quick? Does the designer expect that we'll spend a lot of Perk points on SPECIAL increases, so the starting stats aren't that important?

According to the updated Wiki page, some of the perks have a level 50 requirement. While 50 isn't an upper limit, it does suggest that the design does expect players to reach 50 before stopping. So 49 perks at least. That's 20 more perks than you can get in FO3 without mods, and 24 more than you can get in New Vegas, unless you use mods to remove the level limits.

The Fallout 4 perks seem at least as powerful as the perks in the earlier games, and often more powerful. By level 50 you could take 29 perks (the limit in FO3, with Broken Steel) and 20 SPECIAL points and end up with a total of 48 SPECIAL points, or 8 more than you have in FO3. And there's no cap holding you to that.

Its not crippled if you don't play in a particular way. If you run n gun you don't need a lot of strength or perception. And it seems FO4 the special points are mostly related to perks, not something like low intelligence you can't hack and an area is inaccessible. If Bethesda balanced it properly.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,819
29,571
146
Luck can be a remarkably strong stat in 3 or New Vegas if you go for a character that focuses on critical hits. Appropriate perks (i.e. Better Criticals, Finesse), a weapon with a high critical damage bonus and multiplier (i.e. a sniper rifle), and high luck produce a lot of damage from critical hits. I'm not saying you have to go with high Luck, but the stat is a lot stronger in combat than it appears at first blush.

I usually minimized Endurance, personally, because it didn't do much for you beyond increase hit points, and I found that killing the other fellah first often worked better than tanking lots of damage. Still looks to be true in Fallout 4, since the best looking perk is Toughness, which you get at END 1.

There's a lot to be said for a high Agility build. Particularly if you like VATS, which I do, but Sneak / Ninja's no doubt going to be good even if you never use VATS.

yeah, the critical/luck/sniper and weaving in some sneak has always been solid since FO1. For FO3 and NV, it pretty much makes the gameplay irrelevant as things get way too easy early on. Every shot a headshot/oneshot.

I keep telling myself I will try something else...but I never do. :\
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
A high luck is the only way to make money in the New Vegas casinos. And not many people noticed it but EVERYTHING in New Vegas is much more expensive than in Fallout 3. If you wanna put all your companions in Mark II combat armor you will need like 100 thousand caps.
 

Artorias

Platinum Member
Feb 8, 2014
2,134
1,411
136
I think charisma is actually going to be a useful stat, from what I have read it plays a lot in making money through the settlements you can create.

So far the only thing I'm not really liking about this game is the voiced dialogue, there was really no reason to do go ahead and do this, I can tell I'm going to be super annoyed by this dudes voice after countless hours.
 

Harrod

Golden Member
Apr 3, 2010
1,900
21
81
So if you were to vpn into Australia this morning, as in now, you could play the game after restarting Steam.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
So if you were to vpn into Australia this morning, as in now, you could play the game after restarting Steam.

I think Steam already knows where you live based on all the other settings. They go by your account, not by the IP you currently use.
 

Harrod

Golden Member
Apr 3, 2010
1,900
21
81
I think Steam already knows where you live based on all the other settings. They go by your account, not by the IP you currently use.

Apparently they don't, there is a thread on Reddit where people were changing the store to Other or something. But they appear to be allowing the game to start based on IP blocks I would assume, and not profile addresses.

 

GusSmed

Senior member
Feb 11, 2003
403
2
81
A high luck is the only way to make money in the New Vegas casinos. And not many people noticed it but EVERYTHING in New Vegas is much more expensive than in Fallout 3. If you wanna put all your companions in Mark II combat armor you will need like 100 thousand caps.
I've played New Vegas with a high luck character who cleaned all the casinos out, and as a character with deliberately low luck so as to make that impossible, because it felt like such a huge advantage. I won't say "exploit" because it's a very deliberate design choice, but luck is arguably the second most powerful stat in New Vegas because it generates to much money.

As for collecting Mk II combat armor for all your companions, that's an aesthetic choice. There's no game reason to have more than one set of companion armor. Before you switch companions, you take it back, and then give it to the one you're currently using.
 

Dahak

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2000
3,752
25
91
Seen a few videos and...... purchased.

Gotta love a gift card for buying all my games, and there is still money left on it


Now to figure out what my build will be
I like doing the Lockpicking, Hacking, Scavenging (for the settlements) good barter, guns/eng weapons
 
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Dahak

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2000
3,752
25
91
Found a nice Fallout themed night before xmas on reddit Source

'Twas the night before Fallout, when all through the vault,
No creature was stirring, roaches came to a halt,
The pre-loads were finished, VPNs set with care,
In hopes that the sequel soon would be there.
.
The Garys were nestled all snug in their beds,
While visions of sugar-bombs danced in their heads,
And Gary in his jumpsuit, and I in mine,
Were going to sleep, trying to pass the time.
.
When at the vault door there arose such a clatter,
I sprang from the bed to see what was the matter,
Like a frenzied deathclaw I ran from my dorm,
Through the atrium and snuck up to the door.
.
The great entrance was opened, the moon shone inside,
And basking in its silvery light stood Pete Hines,
He was chubby and plump, a right jolly fellow,
He spoke to me then, with a friendly bellow.
.
"I'm sorry about intruding into your home.
It's not just me either, I did not come alone.
My friend from the chess club, clever and thin,
Has brought something special. He's waiting within!"
.
And then, in a twinkling, I heard from behind,
The footsteps of someone who had crept inside,
This gave me a fright, I felt such a coward,
But out from a stealth boy appeared Todd Howard.
.
His eyes-how they twinkled! His dimples how merry!
His cheeks were like roses, his nose like a cherry!
"Hello there, Gary. I'm here on a mission.
I was told that you'd ordered the Pip Boy Edition."
.
From out of his jacket, he retrieved a box,
But my hands were too shaky, such was the shock,
So Todd opened it up, and gave me the disc,
"Now promise me, Gary, that you won't leak this."
.
A wink of his eye and a twist of his head,
Soon let me know that I had nothing to dread.
Pete tapped his watch, and Todd said, "I must leave,
I have many vault dwellers to visit this eve."
.
He walked from the vault, and gave a great whistle,
And out of the sky, shot down like a missile,
An enormous creature, wrinkly and fat,
Todd Howard's flying naked mole rat.
.
The pair mounted up, they waved a merry goodbye,
And without further ado, flew into the sky,
I rushed back to my room, I switched on my TV,
I slotted the disk into my gaming PC.
.
The game booted up, Fallout 4 had begun,
It was massive, and detailed and buckets of fun,
I found all the bobbleheads, I got all the perks,
And all I could think to myself was, "It just works."
 
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Chaptorial

Member
Feb 7, 2010
157
9
81
IGN Review

Most of the way this huge roleplaying-shooter game works is carried over from its excellent predecessors, Fallout 3 and Fallout: New Vegas. It is the Skyrim to Fallout 3’s Oblivion, if you will – it iterates on the previous game’s already amazing systems, and it’s similarly dense with locations to explore, genuinely creepy monsters to fight, and superbly engrossing post-nuclear atmosphere that blends unsettling gore and death with dark comedy. After more than 55 hours played I may have seen an ending, yet I feel like I’ve only begun to explore its extraordinary world; from the look of it, I’ll easily be able to spend another 100 happy hours here and still see new and exciting things.

A story that begins as a basic search for your lost family evolves into something much more complex and morally nuanced. Like in Fallout: New Vegas, we’re drawn into a struggle between several groups competing for control of the region, and deciding which of their imperfect post-apocalyptic philosophies to align with made me pause to consider how I wanted events to play out. Even the highly questionable Institute has a tempting reason to side with them, and turning away from them in my playthrough wasn’t as clear-cut a choice as I’d expected. I was impressed by the sympathy shown toward the villains, too - even the most irredeemable murderer is explored and given a trace of humanity.

Of course, as is the tradition with developer Bethesda Game Studios’ open-world RPGs, the main story isn’t nearly as gripping an attraction as the huge number of well-written side quests you’ll come across just by wandering through the ruins of the Boston area, now known as The Commonwealth. I found it difficult to complete even the most basic point-A-to-point-B task without being sidetracked at least twice by enticing detours. An abandoned comic book publisher office? How can I not explore it? Boston’s famous Fenway Park? Gotta see what’s become of that. A crumbling high school with heads on pikes outside? I bet there’s great loot in there! Practically tripping over new discoveries like this, I feel like a kid on Easter whose parents are bad at hiding the candy.

Exploration has its own rewards, as this is the most diverse Fallout world yet, with dilapidated urban areas, ominous dead forests, eerie swamps, a desolate area mired in a hellish radioactive haze, and even some areas that look borderline hospitable like beaches and budding farms. The Commonwealth’s much more color-saturated than Fallout 3’s Capital Wasteland, though it has its fair share of grays and browns, and it shares New Vegas’ bright blue sky (as opposed to oppressive clouds) when it’s not night time or raining or green with a terrifying radiation storm. It’s often beautiful. Attention to detail is evident everywhere – Fallout 4 might not be a leader in all areas of graphics technology (character animations are still a weakness) but from the intricate Pip-Boy wrist-computer interface (which completely changes when you’re in power armor), to careful arrangement of skeletal remains that tell the tragically dark or tragically funny stories of long-dead characters, to tattered poster art on the walls, to even raindrops on your visor (if you’re wearing one) it’s consistently impressive.

Perhaps because this adventure is such a long haul, Fallout 4 is a bit overeager to hook us in the beginning. After a brief glimpse of pre-war life in Fallout’s familiar-but-strange near-future and a retelling of the events on the day the bombs fell in 2077, we barely have time to get our hands dirty in the post-apocalyptic era before Fallout 4 throws us into a big action moment: You’re given a suit of the big, stompy power armor and a heavy weapon, and put into an intense brawl against the series’ most iconic monster.

It’s certainly not an unconventional idea for a game with a long progression arc to give us an early taste of the powerful toys we’ll gain access to later in order to motivate us to work for them, but with Fallout it’s a misstep that trods on the series’ beloved feeling of working our way up from almost nothing to become the dominant force in the wasteland. This bothered me less and less as I began to explore, but knowing that armor was available when I wanted it made me a little cockier than I wanted to be when setting out into a hostile, unforgiving world.

One of the first things a returning Fallout player will notice after creating a character with the intuitive push-and-pull face-sculpting tool is that the entire concepts of skill points and traits have been consumed by the perks system, unifying all character progression under one big, elaborately animated Vault Boy chart with so many unlockable options you have to scroll through them to see them all. While this streamlining does mean giving up a lot of minute control over where your character improves with each level, it also means the decision of what to do with the single point you get each level has a significant impact, and therefore those decisions represent a commitment and are tough to make: do you want to spend it on a new low-level perk, increase the level of an existing one, or pump it into a SPECIAL attribute like Luck to boost certain stats and also open up a new, more powerful perk, like the Mysterious Stranger, that you’ll be able to unlock with your next level?

These might be more general, jack-of-all-trades types than previous Fallout character builds, in that you generally don’t have any crippling deficiencies, but they definitely have their distinguishing features that’ll make one playthrough feel different from the next. And before you lament it as a “dumbing down” of Fallout’s overall complexity, turn your eye to the new crafting and equipment progression system, which has picked up the slack by becoming vastly more complicated and interesting.

As if I didn’t already have enough of a hoarding problem, Fallout 4’s crafting system gives even more motivation to compulsively collect everything that isn’t nailed down. It’s so easy, too - grabbing things out of containers happens quickly in window that pops up when you look over it. Every item in the world is made up of material components, most of which you can intuitively guess: bottles are needed for glass, a desk fan will provide you with steel and gears, and a roll of duct tape is worth its weight in gold. I once went on a desperate search for pencils so that I could extract the lead they contained to use for radiation shielding. (Apparently Fallout's alternate universe never switched to graphite.) Nothing is worthless junk, which means that managing the weight of your inventory is a constant series of agonizing decisions of what to take with you and what to leave behind.

The value of those materials comes from their use in the fantastic equipment upgrades, which give most guns you pick up extraordinary potential for flexibility and longevity. Stopping at a crafting bench with the right components in hand can turn a pistol into a short-range, pray-and-spray automatic or a scoped sniper with a long barrel for accuracy and a big stock to reduce recoil. A few tweaks to a standard-issue laser rifle can add burning damage over time, or split the beam into a shotgun-like spread. The best part is that those changes aren’t just tweaked numbers in the stats; nearly every modification you make is reflected in the look of your gun as well, creating an extremely varied selection of weapons both for you and for enemies.

Likewise, the new armor system lets you piece together six chunks of gear - helmet, chest plate, and each individual arm and leg - on top of your clothes to form cobbled-together, asymmetrical outfits that feel like exactly what someone who assembled their wardrobe by scavenging the wasteland should wear. The suit my character wears now has at least one piece from each major faction, reflecting both his allegiances and his victories over foes. And of course, armor can be upgraded using collected materials as well, though it sadly doesn’t have as dramatic a cosmetic effect as with weapons.

The armor system suffers from some inconsistency: several times I was a little bit heartbroken to find a new outfit like a tuxedo or a Halloween costume, but couldn’t use them as the foundation of a new custom-built look. Only certain jumpsuits can have pauldrons and shin guards strapped onto them, it seems, and no distinction is made in the item description.

Another major change to personal protection is that Fallout’s distinctive power armor behaves almost like a walking tank that you climb into and out of (with a great Iron Man-style animation as it closes around you) instead of wearing like clothes, and its fuel is a limited resource you have to find in the world. It’s a bold design move that makes these hulks’ appearance on the battlefield feel like a big event. However, since it’s always just a fast-travel away, in practice, having to run and grab it when the going got tough became more of an inconvenience than anything - two loading screens between you and resuming the fight. It also forces you to use fast-travel to conserve fuel, which would mess with a no-fast-travel play style. But I do love how every piece of the armor can be individually damaged, repaired, upgraded, customized, or even swapped out for other models.

All those upgrades are a great way to keep a favorite piece of gear useful long after its original weak stats would’ve led you to sell it off to a junk dealer for a handful of caps. Letting you name those items yourself is a great touch, too - I have fond memories of my adventures with my trusty long double-barrel shotgun, Ol’ Shooty.

On top of that, loot has been punched up in a very Diablo-style way: even better than the typical spoils of battle and foraging, every so often you’ll come across a Legendary enemy who will drop a uniquely named special weapon or item with a modifier. You might get a pistol that refreshes your action points when executing a critical hit, an arm piece that makes lockpicking easier, a flamethrower that deals extra radiation damage, or any of dozens of others. I found it difficult to part with these - they’re so full of potential, and I found I changed my playstyle to take advantage of the bonuses they offer, and sacrificing superior protection to keep them. And of course, all of these items are just as customizable as anything else (except you can’t break them down for parts).

Even small changes to gun stats are important, because Fallout 4’s gunplay feels more like a typical good-quality first-person shooter than the series ever has before, so skilled aim is important to the point where you could comfortably avoid the pause-and-plan Vault-Tec-Assisted Targeting System (VATS) button if you wanted to. The interface even allows you to create shortcuts on the D-pad or number keys, so you can access stimpacks and other healing or performance-enhancing drugs and items without pausing the action to go into your inventory. But I didn’t want to, because planning and watching those slow-motion dismembering kills play out is still a great reward for a job well done.

VATS is repetitive when overused, sure, but there’s still an element of danger to it: though VATS slows time, it doesn’t stop it, so bullets are still flying at you even as you pick which part of your enemy you want to separate from their other parts. Additionally, a new manually activated critical-strike system and the ability to cancel out of slow-mo at any time give some much needed control over those events. Your limited action points (which are now also drained by sprinting) prevent you from really overdoing it, too. Melee combat is still disappointingly basic, though - real-time hacking and smashing now includes the ability to block and do a heavy strike (similar to Skyrim) but in VATS you aren’t able to target specific body parts, which makes it useless for crippling the limbs of tough enemies. You’ll find no shortage of those in Fallout 4, as the enemy types are broadly diverse. Piled on top of the expected raiders, super mutants, mole rats, mirelurks, and other returning creatures are a selection of new ones, including the terrifying blood bugs. There’s something unsettling about these giant mosquitos that makes me want to keep pulling the trigger, even after they’re dead, until the gun goes “click.” There are more unique behaviors, too - the zombie-like feral ghouls, for instance, throw themselves at you with such ferocity they fall down and have to pick themselves up again, giving you a free shot after they’ve already inflicted theirs. And radscorpions have a new trick that makes their new more-terrifying-than-ever appearance an even bigger surprise.

A fully voiced male or female protagonist is a first for Fallout, but I frankly don’t feel like it added much beyond the convenience of not having to read as much text when playing from the couch. It doesn’t get in the way, either - performances are fine, if somewhat bland - and would only be objectionable to me if I’d envisioned my character’s voice as something outlandishly different. So it’s successfully unobtrusive, at least.

How you use that voice is what counts, and though Fallout 4’s quests aren’t remarkably open or character-specific in how you navigate them (only a high Charisma stat opens up unique dialogue options), it’s definitely possible to open up or close off entire quest chains through dialogue decisions and actions. Not every decision has far-reaching consequences, but enough do that I often paused to consider the ramifications because of some that popped up later: as a result of letting a job go south and someone getting killed, I was later confronted by a vengeful daughter. Because I’d shown mercy and left a witness alive after interfering with a criminal gang’s plans, they knew who to come after. On top of the big story decisions, events like those are enough to personalize a playthrough significantly.

More interesting than the blank-slate main character are Fallout 4’s stable of companions. These characters are shy of all-time greats, but at least a few of them are certainly memorable. The stand-out star, above even the lovably aloof robot butler Codsworth and the adorably expressive yet vicious Dog Meat, is hard-boiled detective Nick Valentine. At first he comes across as little more than a walking, talking noir cliche delivered with gusto, but he soon develops into his own man with an intriguing backstory and a case history ready to be explored. And you could just get lost in those eyes.

Beyond some great contextual flavor dialogue, each companion also has their own skills, likes, and dislikes, so choosing one that complements your play style is important. For example, with Nick at your side, you won’t need to invest points into lockpicking or computer hacking - he’s got Expert-level skills. But if you’re planning to play as a lying, cheating, thieving scoundrel, you probably won’t want him or the post-apocalyptic Boy Scout, Preston Garvey, along. Things won’t work out between you, and you’ll see fewer side-mission opportunities arise from their dialogue.

Building up rickety shacks, crops, water pumps, power generators, and defenses to create settlements in predefined areas with the finicky build mode interface definitely adds something to fiddle with beyond quests, but my network of towns almost never contributed meaningfully to my adventures other than somewhere to hang my vast collection of looted hats. Part of that is that their higher-level workings, and how they interact with the Leader perks in the Charisma column, aren’t well explained, but it seems that in Bethesda’s drive to make settlements unintrusive to anyone who doesn’t want to bother with them, it ended up making them mostly irrelevant. There’s potential here for crafty people to build impressive stuff, though - there’s a whole tool set of switches and other items that will no doubt result in some goofy YouTube videos of elaborate contraptions. It’s there to help you tell your own stories, more than anything else.

Fallout 4’s performance on both consoles is tolerable, but sometimes disappointing. We’ve seen frequent frame rate slowdowns well below the target of 30 when simply walking around the world, and hitches of a second or more that arise mostly after loading a new save or fast-traveling. The PC version has been much smoother in that regard, running between 40 and 60fps on Ultra settings on my GeForce GTX 970, and maintaining 60 when I lowered only the anti-aliasing settings. On all platforms we saw occasional crashes (the auto-save system prevented any major loss of progress), and every so often we hit a side quest that won’t properly begin or end due to scripting bugs. But at no point did I encounter anything that halted my progress, or significantly dampened my enthusiasm for exploring, fighting, looting, and just existing in this fantastic, lore-filled universe.

Finally, a spoiler-free note on the ending I saw: the resulting cutscene wasn’t as tailored an epilogue to my adventure as previous Fallouts have trained me to expect, which was disappointing, but Fallout 4 also doesn’t make the mistake of putting a hard stop to it after the final battle – it’s left open for further questing, as is the level cap. That’s a tradeoff.

The Verdict

The world, exploration, crafting, atmosphere, and story of Fallout 4 are all key parts of this hugely successful sandbox role-playing game. Great new reasons to obsessively gather and hoard relics of happier times, strong companions, and sympathetic villains driving tough decisions make it an adventure I’ll definitely replay and revisit. Even the technical shakiness that crops up here and there can’t even begin to slow down its momentum.

9.5

+ Outstanding world
+ Great crafting system
+ Good story, characters
+ Huge variety

- Bugs
 

ControlD

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2005
5,440
44
91
Dang. Getting ready to travel overseas so I'm going to have to wait for a bit on this one. Looking forward to it though.
 

TheSlamma

Diamond Member
Sep 6, 2005
7,625
5
81
Reviews are out. Seems consistently high ratings. Buggy though.
So a typical Bethesda game.

I almost think they should come back and revisit these games after the hype train calms down, MGS5PP scored a 10 on IGN.. I think after people found it was empty world and the second "chapter" isn't really a chapter they should backtrack and give it the 8.0 it deserves.

This game will be the same: Go here-kill this guy-collect this item-bring it back 3, NV, Oblivion and Skyrim was.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
Game critics gave the PC version a 70 and had this to say.

In a year when games like The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt have redefined what open-world RPGs are capable of, I suspect that a lot of Fallout fans will be forced to question whether the usual Bethesda shtick of providing vast amounts of unpolished content with no emotional investment is still enough. I had a pretty good time, but despite its many strong points, Fallout 4 feels like one of Bethesda's minor works.
 

Markbnj

Elite Member <br>Moderator Emeritus
Moderator
Sep 16, 2005
15,682
13
81
www.markbetz.net
Game critics gave the PC version a 70 and had this to say.

Meh you always get a few of these from people who don't really like sandbox games. It's not just having an "open world" (I haven't played Witcher 3 but certainly would not have called either of the first two "open world" games). It's also about not being led by the hand and at least to some extent being able to create your own story. It's exploring and looting and doing whatever you want to do. There aren't many games that actually fall into this category.
 

Markbnj

Elite Member <br>Moderator Emeritus
Moderator
Sep 16, 2005
15,682
13
81
www.markbetz.net

Fans of giant quest video games—MMOs, RPGs, and other open-world slogs—will sometimes point to the number of hours before the game "gets good" as a mark of quality. Once you have proven yourself worthy by investing in a game's mechanics, power-ups, abilities, lore, and so on, you can really start appreciating the giant world laid bare before you.

Don't really need to read much beyond the first para.
 

GusSmed

Senior member
Feb 11, 2003
403
2
81
Meh you always get a few of these from people who don't really like sandbox games. It's not just having an "open world" (I haven't played Witcher 3 but certainly would not have called either of the first two "open world" games). It's also about not being led by the hand and at least to some extent being able to create your own story. It's exploring and looting and doing whatever you want to do. There aren't many games that actually fall into this category.
This.

He wants something different from the game than what I want. I don't particularly play Fallout to be told a story any more than I play Civ V to be told a story. I'm the one making the story.
 

Markbnj

Elite Member <br>Moderator Emeritus
Moderator
Sep 16, 2005
15,682
13
81
www.markbetz.net
I had read it too, may need to read it again but it seems like this is not the kind of game that the author would normally play / enjoy anyway

Some of the same argument could be said of FO3 as well especially the slow beginning

He probably just got assigned the review. He's clearly not one of the people he calls out in the first sentence of the piece, i.e. "Fans of giant quest video games."
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
Meh you always get a few of these from people who don't really like sandbox games. It's not just having an "open world" (I haven't played Witcher 3 but certainly would not have called either of the first two "open world" games). It's also about not being led by the hand and at least to some extent being able to create your own story. It's exploring and looting and doing whatever you want to do. There aren't many games that actually fall into this category.

No, i read their review and they are just being honest. They felt the game needs more substance. Bethesda hasn't changed in a long time and it's their opinion (and I suspect they aren't alone) that the game could really benefit from a bit more polish and less of the idea "we'll put a billion things there that end up being pointless" that has remained in these games since Oblivion.

All of you guys dismissing negative reviews as "the author doesn't like the game" are wrong. They even go out of their way to say that they liked it and had fun.

This.

He wants something different from the game than what I want. I don't particularly play Fallout to be told a story any more than I play Civ V to be told a story. I'm the one making the story.

So even if the story you make ends up being a worthless one? That's the problem I've always had in bethesda games. I could flip a coin on a decision and I wouldn't feel anything either way. I want my choice to feel meaningful and maybe even emotionally impactful.
 
Last edited:

sweenish

Diamond Member
May 21, 2013
3,656
60
91
For your last bit, you're conflating the game story with what they said, and arriving at wrong conclusions.

Also, ars for a video game review? That's been terrible idea AT LEAST as far back as Kuchera.
 
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