Fallout From Climategate

Nov 30, 2006
15,456
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Hallelujah! It's refreshing to see that science is getting out of the politics game and getting back to the real work of science. Climategate was the best thing that could have happened for those who genuinely support science and is the bane of the goosesteppers blinded by their twisted ideologies.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...limate-change-guide-admits-uncertainties.html
Royal Society issues new climate change guide that admits there are 'uncertainties' about the science

The UK’s leading scientific body has been forced to rewrite its guide on climate change and admit that it is not known how much warmer the Earth will become.

The Royal Society has updated its guide after 43 of its members complained that the previous version failed to take into account the opinion of climate change sceptics.

Now the new guide, called ‘Climate change: a summary of the science’, admits that there are some ‘uncertainties’ regarding the science behind climate change.

And it says that it impossible to know for sure how the Earth's climate will change in the future nor what the possible effects may be.


The 19-page guide says: ’It is not possible to determine exactly how much the Earth will warm or exactly how the climate will change in the future, but careful estimates of potential changes and associated uncertainties have been made.

‘Scientists continue to work to narrow these areas of uncertainty. Uncertainty can work both ways, since the changes and their impacts may be either smaller or larger than those projected.’

And it avoids making any predictions about the possible impacts of climate change and advises caution in making projections about rising sea levels.
It says: 'There is currently insufficient understanding of the enhanced melting and retreat of the ice sheets on Greenland and West Antarctica to predict exactly how much the rate of sea level rise will increase above that observed in the past century for a given temperature increase.

'Similarly, the possibility of large changes in the circulation of the North Atlantic Ocean cannot be assessed with confidence. The latter limits the ability to predict with confidence what changes in climate will occur in Western Europe.

The new guidance still makes it clear that human activity is one of the likely causes for climate change but now does so in a more considered way.

It states: 'There is very strong evidence to indicate that climate change has occurred on a wide range of different timescales from decades to many millions of years; human activity is a relatively recent addition to the list of potential causes of climate change.'

The working group behind the new book included two Royal Society fellows who were part of the 43-strong rebellion that had called for the original guide to be rewritten.

Professor Anthony Kelly and Sir Alan Rudge are both members of an academic board that advises a climate change sceptic think-tank called the Global Warming Policy Foundation.

Professor Kelly said: "It's gone a long way to meeting our concerns.
‘The previous guidance was discouraging debate rather than encouraging it among knowledgeable people. The new guidance is clearer and a very much better document.’

And Benny Peiser, Director of The Global Warming Policy Foundation also welcomed the Royal Society's decision to revise. He said: 'The former publication gave the misleading impression that the 'science is
settled' - the new guide accepts that important questions remain open and uncertainties unresolved.

'The Royal Society now also agrees with the GWPF that the warming trend of the 1980s and 90s has come to a halt in the last 10 years.

'In their old guide, the Royal Society demanded that governments should take "urgent steps" to cut CO2 emissions "as much and as fast as possible." This political activism has now been replaced by a more sober assessment of the scientific evidence and ongoing climate debates.

'If this voice of moderation had been the Royal Society's position all along, its message to Government would have been more restrained and Britain's unilateral climate policy would not be out of sync with the rest of the world.'

The new book is certainly very different in tone that the original and takes into account some of the problems that have arisen in climate change science over the past year.

The new version sets out its objectives by saying: ‘In view of the ongoing public and political debates about climate change, the aim of this document is to summarise the current scientific evidence on climate change and its drivers.

‘It lays out clearly where the science is well established, where there is wide consensus but continuing debate, and where there remains substantial uncertainty.’

The Royal Society’s decision comes in the wake of a scathing report into the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change which called for it to avoid politics and stick instead to predictions based on solid science. The review, which focused on the day-to-day running of the panel, rather than its science, was commissioned after the UN body was accused of making glaring mistakes.

These included the claim that the Himalayan glaciers would vanish within 25 years - and that 55 per cent of the Netherlands was prone to flooding because it was below sea level.

Earlier this year an email scandal involving experts at the University of East Anglia had already fuelled fears that global warming was being exaggerated.

Read the new climate change guide from the Royal Society here
 

GaiaHunter

Diamond Member
Jul 13, 2008
3,650
218
106
Sincerely I hope this can indeed become the first step on actually taking real measures on how to tackle the difficulties imposed by climate variation and not put all the eggs in the same basket, especially a cumbersome and heavy one that really gives no real assurances that will work.

We are a technological species and we can take some measures that will enable us to live in a hotter world and mitigate its negative aspects and take advantage of the positive aspects - but that will require resources that wont be there if we go after the CO2 without certainty that CO2 is indeed the cause.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Sincerely I hope this can indeed become the first step on actually taking real measures on how to tackle the difficulties imposed by climate variation and not put all the eggs in the same basket, especially a cumbersome and heavy one that really gives no real assurances that will work.

We are a technological species and we can take some measures that will enable us to live in a hotter world and mitigate its negative aspects and take advantage of the positive aspects - but that will require resources that wont be there if we go after the CO2 without certainty that CO2 is indeed the cause.

I'm still skeptical that CO2 is the major cause of warming, but there are other undeniably bad effects to high CO2 atmospheric levels, things like marine and aquatic acidification and increased erosion. Personally I'd like to see these scientists concentrating on direct CO2 remediation and sequestration, and on better alternative energy production, rather than putting their energies into one world government, higher taxes and total societal control.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,545
16,362
146
Sincerely I hope this can indeed become the first step on actually taking real measures on how to tackle the difficulties imposed by climate variation and not put all the eggs in the same basket, especially a cumbersome and heavy one that really gives no real assurances that will work.

We are a technological species and we can take some measures that will enable us to live in a hotter world and mitigate its negative aspects and take advantage of the positive aspects - but that will require resources that wont be there if we go after the CO2 without certainty that CO2 is indeed the cause.

The entire thing is a complete and utter waste. What we need to be preparing for is the next ice age. Look at a historic climate chart. The entirety of human civilization has occurred during one very brief warm period. Human activity will NOT stop or mitigate the trend, no matte how much the MMGW religionists want us to believe.

 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,293
6,352
126
Nobody tells me I am in any way responsible for the destruction of the world. I want my self hate to kill me without my knowing it.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
Pretty good article. TBH I never expected them to say something like this.
 

GaiaHunter

Diamond Member
Jul 13, 2008
3,650
218
106
The entire thing is a complete and utter waste. What we need to be preparing for is the next ice age. Look at a historic climate chart. The entirety of human civilization has occurred during one very brief warm period. Human activity will NOT stop or mitigate the trend, no matte how much the MMGW religionists want us to believe.


I think some of you misunderstood my words.

I didn't say I believe CO2 is the responsible for the climate fluctuations. Poor CO2 got a really bad reputation for a thing that is essential for Earth life but I guess it is an easier target than a gas that has a much bigger impact on the greenhouse effect called water vapour (and which is much harder to attribute to human activity).

Climate fluctuations have happened out through history and I wasn't saying we can prevent them, just prepare for the consequences.
 

drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,034
1
81
Good stuff, this. I'm glad to see that a government is finally going to stop bowing to the demands of a very vocal minority.

Climate change and AGW were never about anything other than power and the thrusting of one's ideology onto another.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,012
8,049
136
In one reality there are hockey sticks. In the other reality we have natural cycles. Which do you believe?

The bigger question is, who are these people making hockey sticks? Climategate proved that they may have greater intentions than simply reporting the truth about our planet's historical temperatures.

One reality is a lie. We need to figure out which one.

 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
17,121
14,489
146
I'm sorry folks but while the effects of various gasses and human activity maybe debated it is undeniable that the Earth is out of energy balance.

We can measure the solar output of the sun. We have probes orbiting the sun right now in fact.

We can measure the energy reflected and re-radiated from the Earth. We have satellites doing this right now.

If energy in from the sun = energy out from the Earth then the main driver for the climate is equilibrium and we'll see the the status quo with the climate.

This is not the case. Data shows the Earth is absorbing 1 W/m^2 more than it radiates. The climate is out of balance. And I'm not talking about hippy Earth mother balance, I'm talking about hard ass heat/mass transfer balance.

That energy has to somewhere and right now it looks like the oceans are acting like a heatsink. That energy will drive more water vapor into the air and provide for more aggressive weather patterns.

Climate change will continue until the energy is balanced again. Some energy gain may help mitigate the next ice age. Too much and we enventually end up like Venus.

George Carlin once said about humans impact on the planet, "your not saving the Earth, the planet will be fine. The PEOPLE will be fucked, but the planet will be fine."

So maybe we should drop the partisan bullshit and figure out WTF is going on, for our sake if not the planets.
 
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sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,231
5,807
126
I'm confused. These things have always been discussed in terms of Probability and not 100% sure of every part, especially the potential outcomes.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
17,121
14,489
146
I'm confused. These things have always been discussed in terms of Probability and not 100% sure of every part, especially the potential outcomes.

Shhh you'll confuse some people. The ones who only deal in the......TRUTH (TM).

Probabilities and shades of gray are for lesser people like democrats, scientists, and liars.
 
Nov 30, 2006
15,456
389
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climate change denier denies climate change.
Nobody's denying that climate change isn't occurring now...it's quite clear that our climate has been in a constant state of change for millions of years. The worst lies are the ones we tell ourselves.
 

Paul98

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2010
3,732
199
106
If this helps people accept what is happening and what should be done about it then I am all for it. But to me it just seems like they are just adding in what should have been obvious before. Sounds like it's more about public perception than it is about the actual science. But if this helps the debate and can sway people by giving them the out they need by putting it in words that it isn't 100% then I am all for it.

Seems to be what the problem was scientists trying to explain to the general public in terms they can easily understand. That happens all the time in physics about quantum physics and relativity. Much of the stuff about time dilation, speed of light, mass, and things like that are not understood correctly. They have a simple explanation but don't really have any idea about what is actually going on, or what they are talking about.
 
Nov 30, 2006
15,456
389
121
I'm sorry folks but while the effects of various gasses and human activity maybe debated it is undeniable that the Earth is out of energy balance.

We can measure the solar output of the sun. We have probes orbiting the sun right now in fact.

We can measure the energy reflected and re-radiated from the Earth. We have satellites doing this right now.

If energy in from the sun = energy out from the Earth then the main driver for the climate is equilibrium and we'll see the the status quo with the climate.

This is not the case. Data shows the Earth is absorbing 1 W/m^2 more than it radiates. The climate is out of balance. And I'm not talking about hippy Earth mother balance, I'm talking about hard ass heat/mass transfer balance.

That energy has to somewhere and right now it looks like the oceans are acting like a heatsink. That energy will drive more water vapor into the air and provide for more aggressive weather patterns.

Climate change will continue until the energy is balanced again. Some energy gain may help mitigate the next ice age. Too much and we enventually end up like Venus.

George Carlin once said about humans impact on the planet, "your not saving the Earth, the planet will be fine. The PEOPLE will be fucked, but the planet will be fine."

So maybe we should drop the partisan bullshit and figure out WTF is going on, for our sake if not the planets.
FYI...our planet has been "out of energy balance" since Day 1. We've been in a warming trend since the last Ice Age...about 18,000 years ago.

Yes...maybe we should drop the bullshit.
 
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