Famous Atheist Now Believes in God

Riprorin

Banned
Apr 25, 2000
9,634
0
0
Famous Atheist Now Believes in GodOne of World's Leading Atheists Now Believes in God, More or Less, Based on Scientific Evidence
The Associated Press

NEW YORK Dec 9, 2004 ? A British philosophy professor who has been a leading champion of atheism for more than a half-century has changed his mind. He now believes in God more or less based on scientific evidence, and says so on a video released Thursday.

At age 81, after decades of insisting belief is a mistake, Antony Flew has concluded that some sort of intelligence or first cause must have created the universe. A super-intelligence is the only good explanation for the origin of life and the complexity of nature, Flew said in a telephone interview from England.

Flew said he's best labeled a deist like Thomas Jefferson, whose God was not actively involved in people's lives.

"I'm thinking of a God very different from the God of the Christian and far and away from the God of Islam, because both are depicted as omnipotent Oriental despots, cosmic Saddam Husseins," he said. "It could be a person in the sense of a being that has intelligence and a purpose, I suppose."

Over the years, Flew proclaimed the lack of evidence for God while teaching at Oxford, Aberdeen, Keele, and Reading universities in Britain, in visits to numerous U.S. and Canadian campuses and in books, articles, lectures and debates.

There was no one moment of change but a gradual conclusion over recent months for Flew, a spry man who still does not believe in an afterlife.

Yet biologists' investigation of DNA "has shown, by the almost unbelievable complexity of the arrangements which are needed to produce (life), that intelligence must have been involved," Flew says in the new video, "Has Science Discovered God?"

The video draws from a New York discussion last May organized by author Roy Abraham Varghese's Institute for Metascientific Research in Garland, Texas. Participants were Flew; Varghese; Israeli physicist Gerald Schroeder, an Orthodox Jew; and Roman Catholic philosopher John Haldane of Scotland's University of St. Andrews.

The first hint of Flew's turn was a letter to the August-September issue of Britain's Philosophy Now magazine. "It has become inordinately difficult even to begin to think about constructing a naturalistic theory of the evolution of that first reproducing organism," he wrote.

The letter commended arguments in Schroeder's "The Hidden Face of God" and "The Wonder of the World" by Varghese, an Eastern Rite Catholic layman.

This week, Flew finished writing the first formal account of his new outlook for the introduction to a new edition of his "God and Philosophy," scheduled for release next year by Prometheus Press.

Prometheus specializes in skeptical thought, but if his belief upsets people, well "that's too bad," Flew said. "My whole life has been guided by the principle of Plato's Socrates: Follow the evidence, wherever it leads."

Last week, Richard Carrier, a writer and Columbia University graduate student, posted new material based on correspondence with Flew on the atheistic www.infidels.org Web page. Carrier assured atheists that Flew accepts only a "minimal God" and believes in no afterlife.

Flew's "name and stature are big. Whenever you hear people talk about atheists, Flew always comes up," Carrier said. Still, when it comes to Flew's reversal, "apart from curiosity, I don't think it's like a big deal."

Flew told The Associated Press his current ideas have some similarity with American "intelligent design" theorists, who see evidence for a guiding force in the construction of the universe. He accepts Darwinian evolution but doubts it can explain the ultimate origins of life.

A Methodist minister's son, Flew became an atheist at 15.

Early in his career, he argued that no conceivable events could constitute proof against God for believers, so skeptics were right to wonder whether the concept of God meant anything at all.

Another landmark was his 1984 "The Presumption of Atheism," playing off the presumption of innocence in criminal law. Flew said the debate over God must begin by presuming atheism, putting the burden of proof on those arguing that God exists.

Link
 

Mo0o

Lifer
Jul 31, 2001
24,227
3
76
OMG THANKS FOR THE INFO IM GOING TO BE CHRISTIAN NOW

PS. overbearing christians like you make me glad to be agnostic
 

TuxDave

Lifer
Oct 8, 2002
10,572
3
71
Two points. First,

Carrier assured atheists that Flew accepts only a "minimal God" and believes in no afterlife.

He believe in a God, but based on that it's probably not the same God you believe in.

Second, now that he's gone, I claim the throne of King Atheist! Bow before my anti-God-ness.

 

Mo0o

Lifer
Jul 31, 2001
24,227
3
76
Originally posted by: TuxDave
Two points. First,

Carrier assured atheists that Flew accepts only a "minimal God" and believes in no afterlife.

He believe in a God, but based on that it's probably not the same God you believe in.

Second, now that he's gone, I claim the throne of King Atheist! Bow before my anti-God-ness.

I worship you! YOU are my God. Oh wait...
 

TuxDave

Lifer
Oct 8, 2002
10,572
3
71
Originally posted by: Mo0o
Originally posted by: TuxDave
Two points. First,

Carrier assured atheists that Flew accepts only a "minimal God" and believes in no afterlife.

He believe in a God, but based on that it's probably not the same God you believe in.

Second, now that he's gone, I claim the throne of King Atheist! Bow before my anti-God-ness.

I worship you! YOU are my God. Oh wait...

lmao
 

So

Lifer
Jul 2, 2001
25,921
14
81
Some athrist went stupid? Well, that must mean I should become christian!
 

kranky

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
21,014
137
106
Wow, it's rare to see such an avalanche of insightful replies in an ATOT thread. :roll:
 

AmigaMan

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
3,644
1
0
Originally posted by: Mo0o
OMG THANKS FOR THE INFO IM GOING TO BE CHRISTIAN NOW

PS. overbearing christians like you make me glad to be agnostic

Just a question...what in his post was "overbearing"? He just reposted a news article that, as a Christian, he found interesting. People here do it all the time regarding other topics, yet we don't call everyone else overbearing.... or trolls.... or trash...
 

TuxDave

Lifer
Oct 8, 2002
10,572
3
71
Originally posted by: kranky
Wow, it's rare to see such an avalanche of insightful replies in an ATOT thread. :roll:

What kind of responses were you expecting?
 

imported_KirbsAw

Golden Member
Apr 23, 2004
1,472
1
0
Originally posted by: SofaKing
Originally posted by: Mo0o
overbearing christians like you make me glad to be agnostic

Did rip even read the whole article or just stop at the title and the part he bolded?

"I'm thinking of a God very different from the God of the Christian and far and away from the God of Islam, because both are depicted as omnipotent Oriental despots, cosmic Saddam Husseins," he said. "It could be a person in the sense of a being that has intelligence and a purpose, I suppose."
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
58,685
13,052
136
Famous atheist? I've never heard of the guy.
Besides, at 81, senility is probably starting to set in
 

kranky

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
21,014
137
106
Originally posted by: TuxDave
Originally posted by: kranky
Wow, it's rare to see such an avalanche of insightful replies in an ATOT thread. :roll:

What kind of responses were you expecting?

Oh, I don't know, maybe how rare it is for someone well known in a field to do a 180 on the positions that he held and lectured on for decades, how difficult it would be for anyone in that position to publicly declare their new theory.. you know, stuff like that.
 

Riprorin

Banned
Apr 25, 2000
9,634
0
0
Originally posted by: nakedfrog
Famous atheist? I've never heard of the guy.
Besides, at 81, senility is probably starting to set in

Brief Biography of Antony Flew
Personal Particulars
Date of Birth: February 11, 1923
Nationality: British, by birth
Family: Married since June 28, 1952. Two daughters: One born July 11, 1961; the other born March 8, 1964.

Academic Career
I. Schools
St. Faith's Preparatory School, Cambridge (1930-36) and Kingswood School, Bath (1936-41).

II. War Service
State Scholar in Japanese at the School of Oriental and African Studies, London (1942-43). RAF Intelligence (1943-45). Final Rank: Flying Officer. Final Appointment: Attached to Air Ministry.

III. University
Exhibitioner and, later, Casberd Scholar of St. John's College, Oxford. First Class Honors in Litterae Humaniores('Greats') in December 1947. Awarded the University Prize in Philosophy - the John Locke Scholarship in Mental Philosophy - twelve months later.

IV. Degrees
B.A.(Oxon..), 1947; converted into M.A., 1949. D.Litt.(Keele), 1974.

V. Permanent Teaching Appointments
Lecturer in Philosophy at Christ Church, University of Oxford (January 1949-September 1950).
Lecturer in Moral Philosophy at King's College, University of Aberdeen (October 1950-September 1954).
Professor of Philosophy, University of Keele (October 1954-December 1974).
Professor of Philosophy in the University of Reading (May 1973-December 1982).
On taking early retirement from Reading, appointed on a half-time basis as Professor of Philosophy at York University, Toronto; spending the first semesters of the calendar years 1983, 1984 and 1985 there.
VI. Temporary Teaching Appointments
Attached to the Minnesota Center for Philosophy of Science, and taught a summer course at the University of Minnesota, in Summer 1954.
Visiting Professor at New York University for the Spring Semester of 1957/58.
Visiting Professor of Philosophy at Swarthmore College, Pennsylvania for the Fall semester of 1961/62.
Visiting Professor of Philosophy in the Universities of Adelaide and Melbourne, July-September 1963.
Visiting Professor of Philosophy in the University of Pittsburgh for the Summer Trimester of 1964/65.
Visiting Professor of Philosophy and curriculum adviser in University of Malawi for term three of 1966/67.
Visiting Professor of Philosophy in the University of Maryland for the Fall semester of 1970/71.
Visiting Professor of Philosophy in the University of New Buffalo, for the Spring semester of 1970/71.
Visiting Professor of Philosophy in the University of Southern California at Los Angeles, for the Summer session of 1971.
Professor of Philosophy in the University of Calgary, January 1972-April 1973. This was undertaken on a permanent basis; but, mainly for domestic reasons, I had to return to England after only three semesters.
Visitng Professor of Philosophy in the University of California at San Diego for the academic year 1978/79.
Visiting Research Fellow at the Australian National University, Canberra in July-August 1980.
VII. Other Appointments
Gavin David Young Lecturer in the University of Adelaide, 1963.
Visiting Research Professor in the Research School of the Social Sciences in the Australian National University for the (Northern Hemisphere) Summer of 1980.
Gifford Lecturer in the University of St. Andrews in the Michaelmas term of 1986-87.
Prometheus Lecturer in Buffalo, NY during November 1991.
Distinguished Research Fellow at the Social Philosophy and Policy Center, Bowling Green, Ohio for the first semesters of the calendar years 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, and 1990; also for the first semester of academic 1991-92.
Philosophical Publications
Books
A New Approach to Psychical Research(London: C.A. Watts, 1953), pp.161 (hardcover). O/P
Hume's Philosophy of Belief(London, and New york:Routlefge and Kegan Paul, and the Humanities Press, respectively, 1961), pp. ix+286 (hardcover).
God and Philosophy(London:Hutchinson, 1966). Simultaneous hardcover and paperback editions), pp.208.
Evolutionary Ethics(London, and New York: Macmillan and St. Martin's, 1967), pp.70.
An Introduction to Western Philosophy(London and Indianapolis: Thames & Hudson, and Bobbs-Merrills, respectively, 1971). Simultaneous hardcover and paperback editions in both cases, pp.511.
Crime or Disease?(London, New York: Macmillan and Barnes & Noble, respectively, 1973), pp. xii+139.
Thinking about Thinking(London: Collins Fontana, 1975), pp.127.
The Presumption of Atheism, and other philosophical essays on God, Freedom and Immortality(London, and New York: Pemberton/Elek, and Barnse & Noble, 1976), pp. viii+183 (hardcover).
Sociology, Equality and Education: Philosophical Essays in Defence of a Variety of Differences (London, and New York: Macmillan, and Barnes & Noble, 1976), pp. viii+143 (hardcover).
A Raional Animal: Philosophical Essays on the Nature of Man (Oxford: Clarendon, 1978), pp.245.
Philosophy: An Introduction (London,and Buffalo: Hodder & Stoughton, and Prometheus, 1979), pp.194.
The Politics of Procrustes: Contradictions of Enforced Equality (London, and Buffalo: Temple Smith, adn Prometheus, 1981), pp.215.
Darwinian Evolution London:Granada/Paladin, 1984), pp.149.
David Hume: Philosophy of Moral Science (Oxford: Blackwell, 1986), pp. 189.
(With Godfrey Vesey)Agency and Necessity, in the Great Debates in Philosophy series (Oxford: blackwell, 1987), pp. 187.
The Logic of Mortality (Oxford: Blackwell, 1987), pp. x+200.
Power to the Parents: Reversing Educational Decline (London: Sherwood, 1987), pp.171.
Equality in Liberty and Justice (London: Routledge, 1989), pp.224.
(With T.L. Miethe) Does God Exist? (San Fancisco: Harper and Row, 1991), pp.226.
Thinking about Social Thinking. This was originally published in 1985 by Blackwell of Oxford in both hardcover and paperback. But like items 15 and 17 above it was, apparently in response to a cash-flow crisis, remaindered in 1988-9. A substantially revised and extended edition, paperback only and uniform in format with Item 7 above, was published by Harper-Collins of London in 1992. P/.278. This Second Edition went O/P in the UK in early 1995 but was reissued in 1996 by Prometheus Books of Buffalo, NY.
Atheistic Humanism (Buffalo, NY: Prometheus, 1993), pp.302.
Shephard's Warning: Setting Schools Back on Course (London: Adam Smith Institute, 1994), pp. xii+161.
Philosophical Essays of Antony Flew, edited by John Shosky is due to be published early 1997 by Rowman and Littlefield of Lanham, MD, pp.209.
Other Works
72 articles and pamphlets published
12 books edited

 
Nov 3, 2004
10,491
22
81
Originally posted by: KirbsAw
Originally posted by: SofaKing
Originally posted by: Mo0o
overbearing christians like you make me glad to be agnostic

Did rip even read the whole article or just stop at the title and the part he bolded?

"I'm thinking of a God very different from the God of the Christian and far and away from the God of Islam, because both are depicted as omnipotent Oriental despots, cosmic Saddam Husseins," he said. "It could be a person in the sense of a being that has intelligence and a purpose, I suppose."

Still, it's important to note that such a strong atheist for 50 years could be swayed to chnge his opinion on the existance of a god.
 
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