Fan mods for Wavemaster case

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Ken90630

Golden Member
Mar 6, 2004
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I pretty much agree with everything you've said there. You've obviously got a pretty good understanding of what you're tryin' to accomplish. As I'm sure you've already guessed, your sitch may come down to trying a few combinations of different airflow & cooling schemes to see which gives the best results.

The relationship between incoming room-temp air, CPU cooling hardware, and case air evacuation is, I think we both agree, not an easy one to quantify. Like you say, an analysis is "beyond your capabilities." It's beyond mine too. I just don't have the right kind of test equipment. Some aspects of the equation affect temps in some ways, while others affect temps in other, more indirect ways. My admittedly unsophisticated opinion is that the importance of intake air is often overestimated; but, it depends on the rig. I also know that the more air you draw in, the more dust you draw in as well. And since dust build-up on boards & components traps heat, that affects the overall equation as well. (And we all know what a hassle it can be to open the case up every month or two to blow the dust out. We can do it -- it's just a nuisance.) Plus, we know that room-temp air doesn't stay room temp for very long once it enters the case -- the internal hot air in the case warms it up pretty quickly. On the other hand, that air does cool the internal case air before it warms up. [Duh! :laugh:]

I was at Fry's a month or so ago and briefly got a look at a new case from Silverstone (forgot the model #). It's a large, fairly nice looking case, almost server size, and it has what they call a "wind tunnel" or something. It's a good idea, albeit kind of a ripoff of Apple's G5 compartmentalized design idea whereby the portion of the case where the CPU is is kinda isolated from the rest of the case. In this case, it's in a mostly-sealed clear plastic tube (or "tunnel"), with an intake fan on the front end and an output fan on the rear. So, theoretically anyway, the CPU and its heat are isolated from the rest of the case. I didn't have the chance to check it out very thorougly though 'cuz the place was kinda crowded.

If I ever get time and have nothing better to do [ha! -- that's gonna happen real soon ], I'd like to try some different cooling schemes & combinations to see what'll yield the lowest temps in my WaveMaster. A person could prolly fabricate some sort of "wind tunnel" or isolation apparatus without too much difficulty. I have an Athlon 2600-based system right now, not overclocked, and a tame vid card, so I don't have the heat that your case does. But the cooling principles will be the same. I also have an awesome Thermalright all-copper heatsink -- I don't know the construction of your Zalman, but I'm sure you know that an all-copper heatsink will yeild the best heat absorption off the CPU. Then, like you say, you just need to focus on evacuating that heat from the fins and out of the case.

Another thing you could try is to cut a hole in the side of the left panel, towards the front of the case, and put another intake fan there. It might look kinda odd if you have the windowed side panel, but if not, if wouldn't look too bad. Anywho, good luck. Let us know if you hit on anything that makes a dramatic difference in your temps.
 

Markbnj

Elite Member <br>Moderator Emeritus
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Sep 16, 2005
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I thought about installing a duct from the rear case fan to shroud the Zalman. Might be worth trying.
 

Ken90630

Golden Member
Mar 6, 2004
1,571
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Originally posted by: Markbnj
I thought about installing a duct from the rear case fan to shroud the Zalman. Might be worth trying.

Yeah. My mom's Dell has one of those. Give it a shot -- nothin' to lose.

 

Jojo7

Senior member
May 5, 2003
329
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With the 120mm fan, it's like I don't even have a side panel on the case at all. Temps dropped about 8 degrees celcius.

I cut it w/ a 4.5'' hole saw and used door edge molding that can be found at any auto store to line the hole so it looks clean.
You can get those grills anywhere for like $1. I think I got mine at coolerguys.com http://www.coolerguys.com/840556041153.html

Edit: I forgot to mention that I positioned the fan to be mostly over the cpu, but I've got it over the video card too about 1.5 inches. My video card temps are great too. My only complaint is that lots of dust gets into the system but I clean it out about every 2 months.
 

culex44

Junior Member
Oct 20, 2005
4
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It's an idea I had since I've installed a Thermaltake Big Typhoon cpu cooler (42°C in load with open case vs 52°C with closed case) in my wavemaster to replace my poor zalman 7000alcu (58°C in load with closed case) . This cpu cooler is very big and fan is near from the side panel so I want to make a hole directly over the cooler and use the grill of the cpu cooler on the side panel.
What do you use to fix the grill? screws?
note: my cpu is an opteron 144@2.66Ghz with 1.63v that can explain the temp

Sorry for my poor english, I'm a poor french guy!!!


Edit: sorry for this stupid question, I forget you have the fan behind the panel that it'll not be my situation
 

Ken90630

Golden Member
Mar 6, 2004
1,571
2
81
Yeah, that is nice work. A few questions if you don't mind:

1) Did you by any chance try using that fan as an exit fan and them compare the temp differences? I'd be curious to know whether using it as an input or exit fan yielded the lowest temps.

2) What's your personal opinion of the noise level of that Vantec Stealth fan? I've never used one myself, but I've read a number of comments that say it's not as quiet as it's touted to be. What's your take?

3) Does your computer sit on the floor? If so, maybe putting it up off the floor somewhere might help a little with the dust prob you mentioned (particularly if you have a carpeted floor). Just a thought.

Again, nice job. It looks almost stock.
 

Jojo7

Senior member
May 5, 2003
329
0
0
Originally posted by: Ken90630
Yeah, that is nice work. A few questions if you don't mind:

1) Did you by any chance try using that fan as an exit fan and them compare the temp differences? I'd be curious to know whether using it as an input or exit fan yielded the lowest temps.

2) What's your personal opinion of the noise level of that Vantec Stealth fan? I've never used one myself, but I've read a number of comments that say it's not as quiet as it's touted to be. What's your take?

3) Does your computer sit on the floor? If so, maybe putting it up off the floor somewhere might help a little with the dust prob you mentioned (particularly if you have a carpeted floor). Just a thought.

Again, nice job. It looks almost stock.


culex44: Yes, I just used 4 screws to attach the grill. The order is as follows: screws, grill, case and the fan on the inside. If that makes sense.

Ken90630: No, I didn't even try using it as an exhaust. I just wanted fresh air blowing straight onto my video card and cpu.
The vantec fan is extremely silent. I purchased another one to do the same type of mod in my next opteron system. The loudest thing in my system is the fan on the 6800u.
My pc sits near my feet on this computer desk about 3 inches off the carpet. The whole base of the desk is open air.
Right now, I'm using sort of a homemade filter on the 120mm intake and it does ok but it really reduces the airflow.
Thanks for the comments~
 

Ken90630

Golden Member
Mar 6, 2004
1,571
2
81
Cool. I just realized I wasn't paying close enough attention earlier. I was thinking of the 80mm Vantec Stealth that a number of people have said isn't particularly quiet (or "stealthy"). Yours is the 120mm size, so I'm not surprised it's pretty quiet.

I know what you mean about the fan filter reducing airflow. Kind of a necessary evil, I guess, as your computer would be a dustbowl in no time without some kind of filter on there. And you don't want a ton of dust being deposited directly onto the heatsink & CPU. :Q I don't know what you're using for filter material, but a lot of guys think that foam air conditioner filter material, cut to fit, gives a good combination of filtering & airflow. You do have to vacuum it regularly though (of course).

Incidentally, I bought one of those room air purifiers a couple years ago. I've found it works well when it comes to reducing the amount of airborne dust in the room. I used to have to dust things like furniture, my TV, etc., once a week before, but now I do it about every 2 or even 3 weeks. Less dust floating in the air = less dust to get into the computer (not to mention my lungs). It's another expense, of course, but it has its benefits.
 

Markbnj

Elite Member <br>Moderator Emeritus
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Sep 16, 2005
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[I cut it w/ a 4.5'' hole saw and used door edge molding that can be found at any auto store to line the hole so it looks clean.
You can get those grills anywhere for like $1. I think I got mine at coolerguys.com http://www.coolerguys.com/840556041153.html ]

Cool, I get it. Thanks a lot. I think that looks like the best solution for me.
 

Ken90630

Golden Member
Mar 6, 2004
1,571
2
81
BTW, Mark, you can also get that edge moulding at some of the computer product sites like Xoxide.com and others. I bought a short length of it from Xoxide awhile back and it was pretty cheap (a few bucks IIRC). Coolerguys.com may even have it. I don't know how it compares, price-wise, to the same stuff found at auto parts stores.

If you feel like spending the time , maybe you could try this mod as both an exit fan and an intake fan and let us know the temp differences. I still think an exit fan back there would lower temps more than an intake fan blowing air onto the heatsink/CPU general area, but I haven't done any personal testing to back up my hypothesis.

Later,

Ken
 

MBentz

Golden Member
Jun 8, 2005
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Why not have two, one on top of the other. One 120mm below by the video card(s) as an intake. The on above it closer to the CPU could be exhaust. Just an idea.

This would be the cheapest solution, however I'm a bit worried taking a saw to the WaveMaster. The paint is so nice... one sneeze...
 

Ken90630

Golden Member
Mar 6, 2004
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This would be the cheapest solution, however I'm a bit worried taking a saw to the WaveMaster. The paint is so nice... one sneeze...

:laugh: Yeah, no kiddin'.


Q: What's the most dreaded word when it comes to modding a WaveMaster's exterior?

A: "Oops."

Regarding your over/under idea, do you think that would create any kind of 'turbulence' or other airflow issues? I'm tryin' to picture how they'd affect the rear exit fan and the blowhole fan on the top and the air trying to exit out via them. Who knows? Only way would be to test a number of different configs and measure the results, I guess.

We've kinda beat this topic into the ground, but it's interesting nonetheless. To me, anyway. Time for some sleep. I'm out. :moon:

 

scrawnypaleguy

Golden Member
Jun 19, 2005
1,036
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If you guys are looking for fan filters, I found this one over at frozencpu.com: http://www.frozencpu.com/ffa-16.html I think it would look good on the side of the wavemaster.

Another idea I was toying with was to simply drill some holes in the side panel, maybe 1-1.5 cm in diameter, similar to the ones that allow air into the front of the case (maybe a bit smaller, now that I take a good look at them). I was thinking of maybe just drilling a bunch of those holes and making a sort of grid about three inches across (or more, depending on where your cpu fan is) so that it can draw in fresh air from outside without having to add more fans. If you wanted to take the idea one step futher, you could conceivably cut out a hole over 1/3 of the side panel and simply replace it with some black filter material, which would allow the trasmission of warm and cool air wherever it needs to. It's kinda hard to explain, maybe I'll draw some pictures...
 

Ken90630

Golden Member
Mar 6, 2004
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Yeah, a large ventilated panel like that has been discussed before. I think the issue there becomes one of dust along with the increased ventilation ... which, AFAIK, is the main reason people don't just leave the side panel off entirely (that and noise). Same old story -- the more ventilation, the more potential for noise and also dust build-up inside the case. Those are the main reasons I generally tout the benefits of exiting hot air from cases more than increasing fresh air intake. But, as we've discussed, they both have their roles in the overall equation.

I think it really depends on the individual components in a given rig. Every machine is different. Some people are more concerned with CPU temps, while others are more concerned with overall ambient temp inside the case (since excessive heat shortens the lifespan of every component inside). And some people don't care about noise, so they just put a slew of high velocity fans in. There was some guy on here awhile back that said he had 7 (!) Vantec Tornados going in his case. :shocked: His room must have sounded like an airport. I still laugh when I picture that. :laugh:
 

Markbnj

Elite Member <br>Moderator Emeritus
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Sep 16, 2005
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Well, I ordered my parts today from frozencpu.com. Picked up a 120mm Panaflo, a black metal grill similar to the one in the pic that was posted (except for color). I also picked up a hi-flow Panaflo 80mm w/sensor to replace the rear case fan. I figure if I am going to have a 120mm on intake I need more exhaust. When I get everything installed I will try the 120mm both ways and let you guys know how it works out.

Now all I have to do is pick up a 4.5" hole saw and the edge covering.

With respect to the fan filter option... I just can't see it not reducing the airflow significantly. I don't mind popping the side panel and vacuuming the interior from time to time.
 

Ken90630

Golden Member
Mar 6, 2004
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Cool. Yeah, definitely let us know the results if you try the fan both ways.

BTW, FrozenCPU.com sells that edge molding. You can find it here. I'm pretty sure Xoxide.com sells it too, among others. Maybe you can call or e-mail FrozenCPU and see if they'll add it to your order.

Since you plan to blow incoming air at the CPU fan & heatsink, you might as well get one of those duct kits that connect directly from the intake fan (on the case side panel) to the heatsink fan. That way you have a sealed, direct path of room-temp air going right onto the heatsink fan. I think they're typically around $10 to $15 at the usual places (SVC, ComputerGeeks, etc.). Just put a filter on it & vacuum it regularly, otherwise you'll have a mountain of dust on your CPU fan & heatsink in no time. Or so I've heard.

Good luck.

 

scrawnypaleguy

Golden Member
Jun 19, 2005
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Hey, what about this? You would have to dremel the frame of the case a bit just to stretch it out, but it may be just what we're looking for in a rear exhaust. What do you guys think?
 

Markbnj

Elite Member <br>Moderator Emeritus
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Sep 16, 2005
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Damn, I'm sorry I missed that edge moulding. The order already shipped. Should be easy enough to find locally.

I thought about ducting the fan. I'm going to stick the parts in as-is and see what effect I get.
 

Ken90630

Golden Member
Mar 6, 2004
1,571
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Originally posted by: scrawnypaleguy
Hey, what about this? You would have to dremel the frame of the case a bit just to stretch it out, but it may be just what we're looking for in a rear exhaust. What do you guys think?

Yeah, I saw that recently but had forgotten about it. Upon first glance, it looks pretty cool to me. I'll have to read up more on its "Ultra Maglev oil protection bearing system" before I give it my full endorsement, but it looks promising. Ditto its specs -- if those specs for CFM and noise are accurate -- and fan specs are always a big "if" -- it looks like a winner.

I can't help but wonder why it's so cheap though. Five bucks? It's either too good to be true or a real find. Maybe I'll just order one & try it out. Shipping would prolly cost more than the fan.

 

scrawnypaleguy

Golden Member
Jun 19, 2005
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Originally posted by: Ken90630
Originally posted by: scrawnypaleguy
Hey, what about this? You would have to dremel the frame of the case a bit just to stretch it out, but it may be just what we're looking for in a rear exhaust. What do you guys think?

Yeah, I saw that recently but had forgotten about it. Upon first glance, it looks pretty cool to me. I'll have to read up more on its "Ultra Maglev oil protection bearing system" before I give it my full endorsement, but it looks promising. Ditto its specs -- if those specs for CFM and noise are accurate -- and fan specs are always a big "if" -- it looks like a winner.

I can't help but wonder why it's so cheap though. Five bucks? It's either too good to be true or a real find. Maybe I'll just order one & try it out. Shipping would prolly cost more than the fan.


Are you going to rear mount it to your wavemaster, or try something else with it? I'm just curious to see if it's possible, because if it is, I'll do it.
 

Ken90630

Golden Member
Mar 6, 2004
1,571
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My first thought was as a CPU cooler, actually. I'm using a Thermalright SLK-947U copper heatsink that's paired with a Panaflo 12L right now, and that's a low-speed fan. I chose it mainly for its quietness, but I've always kinda thought it might be a little better to have a bit more airflow on that nice heatsink. If I can do it without introducing an unacceptable noise level, I'll do it. If not, I can live with the 12L. No probs so far.

That being said, I don't see any reason that fan couldn't work elsewhere on the case. Rear exit or top blowhole should both work. I'm using 12L's in both of those places now and am happy with the results, so I'm not itching to change them. They move enough air to keep the case cool and they do it very quietly. And I plan to use the stock intake fans until they start chattering or die a few years from now, then replace them with Panaflo's. If I buy one of those Silverstone fans, I'll prolly just hook it up and see how I like it, then decide how to use it (and whether or not to get more).

BTW, why did you think it might be necessary to Dremel the case? That fan has standard 80mm mount holes, doesn't it? I'm not seeing how it would require any additional space than any other 80mm fan.

EDIT: I see in your sig that you're using an L1A (same as my 12L) as your CPU fan. I assume it works well for you? How are your CPU temps? Heck, if it keeps your A64 3400+ cool, I'd guess I don't need to be the least bit concerned about my Athlon 2600.
 
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