fan on the radiator necessary?

[sugarkang]

i'm moving to a bachelor apartment, so i'm going to be in sleeping in the same room as my computer. silence is absolutely essential! performance/temperature is not important to me.

i don't have enough money for the $1400 zalman case.

i'm thinking about the asetek waterchill setup. i don't want to use the radiator fan.

my setup will be:
1) barton 2500 OCed to 3200 @ 1.65v (default voltage)
2) radeon 9800 pro OCed to 400mhz on GPU
3) two seagate 120GB 7200.7 drives

my system is very quiet as it is with a zalman 7000A running at 1200rpms, and 120mm fan @7volts, seasonic 300w PSU.

basically i'm trying to get rid of as many fans as possible. i want the PSU to be the only fan in the case. is this possible? i'm not interested in getting temps really low.

 

[Gravity]

Yes, very possible. You don't need to use the radiator fan but it will inhibit cooling somewhat. I'm using the slk900a on a 2500 barton and a Panaflo l1a for cooling. It spins about 1000 rpm and I get about 50 degrees, 1.94 ghz.

So, you can do it. I also have the seasonic and love it. I just got a fan speed controller, now the hard drives are the noisiest component.

Get ready to make them quiet now.

 

[sugarkang]

i'm confused. you have a radiator, but you also have an slk900?

i'm talking about going to a watercooling setup without:
a cpu fan
video card fan
any case fans

 

[KH85]

He never said he had a rediator......

Answer to ? is yes it can be done BUT will reduce cooling capability.

 

[Dman877]

I have a switch and pot on the 120mm sunon on my radiator and what I've found is that the cooling capacity of my watercooling setup, with fan off, deminishes with time. The water just keeps getting warmer and warmer when the cpu is under load and the fan is off. So I turn the fan on low when I game and then turn it up for oc/benchmarking, then turn it off for web-serfing.

I would think a 2500 oc'd to 3200 would require at least a low volume fan on the radiator under load situations.

 

[sugarkang]

KHGamez: so if it can be done, all i have to do is keep the radiator outside of the case?

Dman877: is your radiator inside or outside of the case? btw, my cpu is OCed at stock voltage. it's barely even warm with my zalman heatsink running at the lowest possible rpms.

so if i buy the asetek waterchill i can definitely do this if i keep the radiator outside of the case?
i'm getting the package with cpu block, gpu block, chipset.

should i get the koolance hard drive block too? will the hose attachments be the same size?

 

[Dman877]

My radiator is internal. Its a DD Supercube, roughly half the size of a loaf of bread. It's mounted in the top 3 5.25 bays in an antec 1030 with the front flush with the front of the case. The fan is on the back end, pulling air through and blowing towards the psu.

Having your radiator outside the case will prolly work, long as you have nice AC in the summer.

 

[rms]

I wonder what type radiator fan we are talking about here. I have 3 low-speed 92mm Sunon fans on mine (a flatpanel type) and its basically inaudible. You don't need much airflow on a mildly overclocked system as you discuss here.

As far as sound sources go, your drives will be the loudest things by far. Tom's Hardware just reviewed a very nice-looking drive sound-dampening enclosure accessory. Take a look.

Also, you should consider underclocking when the computer is not in use for gaming. I routinely run at 5x230fsb = 1145mhz, Vcore 1.25v and turn off the waterpump and radiator fans for daily use, then start everything up and run at 2.4ghz Vcore 1.9v for gaming.

There are software utilities now that will let you switch from say 11x100fsb for surfing to 11x210fsb for gaming, and alter the Vcore as well.

You can make this thing silent as the grave and fast for gaming as well with a little work.

rms

 

[sugarkang]

I have 3 low-speed 92mm Sunon fans on mine (a flatpanel type) and its basically inaudible.

unfortunately, everyone's idea of *inaudible* is different.
like i said, my computer is already very quiet with active cooling. my zalman is running at the lowest setting. around 1200-1400rpms (<20dB) my 120mm ADDA fan is running at 7 volts. at the full 12volts it's rated at under 25dB. the gpu fan is an old 80mm fan modded to 7 volts. and since that fan is in the middle of the case, it's virtually inaudible.

all of these virtually inaudible components create an audible computer.

the point for me to watercool is to get rid of all the fans, but i'll keep the fan in the PSU.

i turned on my computer with all the fans off, the hard drives off, and just the psu running.
i found that this is the only acceptable level of noise i'm prepared to deal with. in the future, i will definitely switch out the PSU for a fanless one.

 

[CaiNaM]

that's one of the silliest things i've heard. most pumps will make a heckuva a lot more noise than low speed fans.. perhaps you should turn that off as well?

maybe you could use a 5 gal drum as a water resevoir. that might be enough capacity that your cooling system would still disappate heat, course depending on where you put the drum, the pump capacity required may be such that the noise it makes would render the effort worthless.

at any rate most std water cooling setups simply do not have the coolant capacity to disappate heat fast enough without some kind of active cooling; eventually the coolant temperature will exceed its capacity to dissipate the heat and will cuase some seriously high temps. today's cpu's simply have too high a thermal output (not to mention the drives and video cards) to run without efficient cooling.

ambient temp also plays a part; you could probably run w/o any type of fan if you put your rig in the refrigerator. imagine your car. you could remove the fan in the middle of winter, and it may not overheat. do it on a 70 degree day and it will probably overheat at idle.

realistically, you either need to underclock the cpu to the point the heat output is inconsequential, or put up with some type of active cooling.. tho maybe you could actually put your case outside your bedroom window where you most likely won't have to hear any of it. or maybe fire up an old xt or 286 that generated so little heat passive cooling was just fine....

 

[sugarkang]

that's one of the silliest things i've heard. most pumps will make a heckuva a lot more noise than low speed fans

thanks for your comments, since i haven't had the opportunity to actually witness a watercooled setup in a quiet environment, such as my bedroom.

anyway, with regards to the noise of the pump... my understanding is that the pump noise generated is mostly vibration. in which case, that problem would be solved by suspending the pump in midair by something like rubberbands. i forgot where i saw that link, but i know what needs to be done in my head, so i can just make it.

so aside from that problem, i don't think there is really much noise to deal with. i'm anticipating that one suspended in midair pump would put out less noise overall than 3 very quiet fans.

 

[slaves123]

if you jave a big radiator I think you should have no problem

 

[0roo0roo]

unless you have a silent psu that is passively cooled, its pointless. those psu's cost over 100bux. your better off trying to use low speed panaflo cooling. or if you must go water cool, get a large radiator as possible. and a passive psu.

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: sugarkang

that's one of the silliest things i've heard. most pumps will make a heckuva a lot more noise than low speed fans

thanks for your comments, since i haven't had the opportunity to actually witness a watercooled setup in a quiet environment, such as my bedroom.

anyway, with regards to the noise of the pump... my understanding is that the pump noise generated is mostly vibration. in which case, that problem would be solved by suspending the pump in midair by something like rubberbands. i forgot where i saw that link, but i know what needs to be done in my head, so i can just make it.

so aside from that problem, i don't think there is really much noise to deal with. i'm anticipating that one suspended in midair pump would put out less noise overall than 3 very quiet fans.

well, in all seriousness, depending on which way you go with watercooling, that's not really true. pumps are mechanical devices with moving parts, which in turn outputs noise. the less volume of coolant the pump moves, the quieter it will be, but degrading the cooling efficency at the same time. the quietest pumps i've found are about 27db (about the as when someone "whispers", or along the same lines of a decent "quiet" fan which moves about 25-30 cfm of air) and only pumps about 23gph - most "performance" pumps move 90gph and up (tho at a certain point there are diminishing returns in the cooling effeciency, and can actually degrade performance with excessive volume, but that's a whole other discussion).

the bottom line is this: if your cpu generates more thermal output than 100w, which all prcessors running in the ghz range do, water cooling or not, unless you have a HUGE coolant capacity, you simply cannot dissapate the amount of heat today's cpus generate without having air flow through the radiator; at some point the coolant will reach the same temp as the heat being generated by the cpu, as it really has no means to "release" it. while liquid cooling when done properly is more efficient than air cooling, you can't change the law of physics, and the heat has to go somewhere...

perhaps the most practical way would be to have some type of fan control mounted, so that when your cpu is idling or barely above, you can turn down the fans to where they aren't really audible, and turn them up when you are doing more cpu intesive tasks. beyond that, simply turn the damn thing off when you go to bed ;p

btw, if you go thru all the trouble of levitating the pump, etc. send us all a picture. i'm sure everyone would get a kick out of seeing the "fruits" of your efforts.

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
unless you have a silent psu that is passively cooled, its pointless. those psu's cost over 100bux. your better off trying to use low speed panaflo cooling. or if you must go water cool, get a large radiator as possible. and a passive psu.

even the "silent" psu's output 17-20db; the addition of a "whisper" type fan will only add 1-2db to that. reasonable or not, the op is insisting that's excessive.

 

[ponyo]

How about buying a pair of cheap earplugs?

 

[sugarkang]

thanks cainam for your comments.

i guess i got really excited by testing what my computer would sound like if everything was off, minus the PSU. i assumed that the pump would be a lot quieter than the case fan because the pump would be *inside* the case, rather than hanging out one of the holes.

my video card is louder than my exhaust fan, buto i don't hear it. i do, however, hear my 7volt QUIET exhaust fan.

anyway, i guess this means that i won't be going for watercooling afterall. from what you're telling me, i've already got the quietest computer on the block.

 

[ErikS]

Try here for silent solutions - SilentPCReview

Best bet for WC w/ "quiet" is to run the fan off a controller. To me a PL1A is pretty quiet when turned all the way down. Should give you a decent level cooling & be fairly quiet.

By attaching the fan to a shroud & isolating w/ rubber AND isolating the radiator from the case you'd be suprised how little noise the fan will make (most of the turbulance noise is eliminated by having the fan 1" + from the rad).

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: sugarkang
thanks cainam for your comments.

i guess i got really excited by testing what my computer would sound like if everything was off, minus the PSU. i assumed that the pump would be a lot quieter than the case fan because the pump would be *inside* the case, rather than hanging out one of the holes.

my video card is louder than my exhaust fan, buto i don't hear it. i do, however, hear my 7volt QUIET exhaust fan.

anyway, i guess this means that i won't be going for watercooling afterall. from what you're telling me, i've already got the quietest computer on the block.

well, if the air isn't moving "thru" the radiator, the air is simply going to reach a point where it is the same temp as the radiator ;p

the reason i have water cooling in my rig (aside from just wanting to do it as something to fiddle with), is that while i can pretty much attain the same overclock w/ air cooling, the liquid cooling setup is MUCH quieter, and it does run a bit cooler.

while my pump makes a little noise (rated 17db), i really don't hear it, but from your posts it seems you are a bit more sensitive to audible sounds than i. while i can hear it if i listen for it, it's not something that distracts me, so for all intensive purposes to me the sound isn't there.

anyways, going back to your comment about the pump being inside, that applies for case fans as well. most of what you hear is not the fan itself, rather the air moving thru the the outside of the case.

most "non-highend" (?? can't think of a different term atm..."mid-range" and below?) have what can best be describes as holes "drilled" where the case-fan mounts are, which allows for air to come throgh. believe it or not, those are responsible for the majority of "fan noise".. the air being sucked thru those holes is somewhat akin to a person whistling... if you have a dremmel or something similar, cut out the area of holes, and install a little $2 80mm fan grille (those wired ones like you see on servers), and the fan noise will be cut in half or better.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: CaiNaM

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
unless you have a silent psu that is passively cooled, its pointless. those psu's cost over 100bux. your better off trying to use low speed panaflo cooling. or if you must go water cool, get a large radiator as possible. and a passive psu.

even the "silent" psu's output 17-20db; the addition of a "whisper" type fan will only add 1-2db to that. reasonable or not, the op is insisting that's excessive.

ugh no, truely silent psu's are purely passive cooled. many with heatsinks that even jutt out the back of the case. not those variable speed "quiet" psu

 

[CaiNaM]

ugh no?

why is it people feel the need to nitpick to try and prove they are "smart"? is the attention that important? sheesh..

do a search for "silent psu" and see how many you find with no fans. acutally, is there even more that a couple comercially available? how many links can you provide to power supplies with no fans?

they do exist, but i am not sure how relevant or practical they are within this discussion. the only one i've ever seen is the engleking, but even THAT had a fan on it which kicked in at a certain point to ensure it didn't overheat.. and that thing cost like $300! btw, they also state in the installation manual that case fans are required as well.... so in the truest sense, it is NOT a fanless solution.

 

[sugarkang]

here's one.

but yeah i agree.
i'm gonna have to wait for zalman to make a smaller version of that crazy heatsink box and for 1/3 of the price.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: CaiNaM
ugh no?

why is it people feel the need to nitpick to try and prove they are "smart"? is the attention that important? sheesh..

do a search for "silent psu" and see how many you find with no fans. acutally, is there even more that a couple comercially available? how many links can you provide to power supplies with no fans?

they do exist, but i am not sure how relevant or practical they are within this discussion. the only one i've ever seen is the engleking, but even THAT had a fan on it which kicked in at a certain point to ensure it didn't overheat.. and that thing cost like $300! btw, they also state in the installation manual that case fans are required as well.... so in the truest sense, it is NOT a fanless solution.

moron, my original post stated passively cooled, and you decided not to read it closely enough to see that. if you had bothered to read, you wouldn't have continued with your sorry posts. silent is SILENT. its not a quibble. its simply ignorance that kept you posting.

 

[CaiNaM]

lol... pot calling the kettle "black" eh?

you failure to reply to anything i stated, instead resulting to insults to defend your position says enough by itself without my having to add further.

thanks for supporting my reply, and have a great day!