Fantastic Four

[lupi]

studio problem and not director?

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Fox-...tic-Four-Much-More-Than-We-Thought-76027.html

 

[Ns1]

studio problem and not director?

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Fox-...tic-Four-Much-More-Than-We-Thought-76027.html

I think this line pretty much sums it up:

Of course, even if all this is 100% true, it begs the question: who is to say that Trank’s version would have been so much better? It’s looking clearer and clearer that if Trank had made the movie that had been agreed to it would have been different, but that doesn’t guarantee it would have been good.

 

[Skel]

studio problem and not director?

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Fox-...tic-Four-Much-More-Than-We-Thought-76027.html

From what I read during it's production, Trank created something completely out there and not related to the FF outside of names and powers. There were a few places where both he and the cast referred to the powers as 'disabilities'. I mention this mostly because I believe the studio stepped in and redid a bunch of it, it still wouldn't have been what people were wanting to see. I couldn't see if he had the green light to go forth with the version he was making or if he was out there on his own. I've read it both ways, though most say he was out there on his own. That's why the guys from the X-Men series had to step in and handle a lot of what he was supposed to do.

 

[MarkLuvsCS]

It is a shame fans are going to suffer with series of reboots until Marvel eventually gets their copyrights back. Fox and Sony just seem to have their success almost like a rollercoaster, enough dips though, and i'm sure they're not going to keep trying to do things their way. Here's to hoping for a quick return of the copyrights to Marvel so after the infinity gauntlet saga they potentially could have their fleshed out stories with the x-men and fantastic four.

 

[JEDI]

 

[blankslate]

Turns out that Josh Trank may not be 100% at fault for this movie.

I enjoyed his movie Chronicle and it's still decently regarded in some circles.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/chronicle/ Chronicle 86% on rotten tomatoes
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1706593/ Chronicle 7.1 at imdb.com
http://www.metacritic.com/movie/chronicle-2012 69% from meta-critic aggregation.

He can be a decent film maker but he probably was pushed around in this instance because he didn't have as much pull as other directors like Mathew Vaughn and Bryan Singer who direct movies more or less of a similar nature.


A lot of inside talk is discussing how Fox changed the movie from what they and the director agreed upon making just before production began detailed over the first part of the below video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNUrwtNH_aE

Among the changes three major action action scenes being cut without warning and the director being told you're not filming those just as production starts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNUrwtNH_aE&t=4m17s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNUrwtNH_aE&t=6m17s


Then Fox hijacked the editing room and changed the final act of the movie drastically.

The discussion is nuanced and it doesn't just bash Fox while painting the "poor abused director" as a saint. The director was called out for putting out a tweet when he should've just let it go. And they touch on the antics that happened during production.

The director of that documentary about the failed Superman Lives film that was supposed to star Nicholas Cage also is part of the discussion and his comments about FF4 start 11 minutes into the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNUrwtNH_aE&t=11m4s

In the opinion of two of the discussion participates the first hour of FF4, where Josh Trank had more control of the editing, was decent (if choppy in terms of editing at times) then when Doom appears the movie change drastically for the worse.

*edited 2 add*

From what I read during it's production, Trank created something completely out there and not related to the FF outside of names and powers.

Given that it's based more on the Ultimates comic line and not the main story line that's been in existence for decades it might be out there for people not familiar with the alternate comic universe.

I've only read some early ultimate Spider-man comic and a couple of issues of ultimate X-men. They're different enough and ultimate FF4 might have the material to be way out there because afaik the origin of the Ultimate FF4's powers has far less in common with the original comics than the ultimate Spider-man's and ultimate X-men's



....

 

[preslove]

Yeah, Fox completely fucked this movie up and then tried to make Trank the scapegoat. They replaced special effects people without asking, right before the shoot, and removed almost ALL OF THE ACTION. Trank apparently didn't handle it well, but what would you expect from a young director.

Fox either should have made the movie Trank told them he'd make, or never hired him in the first place. Fucking with it right before filming started and then replacing him at the end was the worst thing they could have done.

Turns out that Josh Trank may not be 100% at fault for this movie.

I enjoyed his movie Chronicle and it's still decently regarded in some circles.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/chronicle/ Chronicle 86% on rotten tomatoes
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1706593/ Chronicle 7.1 at imdb.com
http://www.metacritic.com/movie/chronicle-2012 69% from meta-critic aggregation.

He can be a decent film maker but he probably was pushed around in this instance because he didn't have as much pull as other directors like Mathew Vaughn and Bryan Singer.


A lot of inside talk is discussing how Fox changed the movie from what they and the director agreed upon just before production began detailed over the first part of the below video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNUrwtNH_aE

Among the the changes three action set-pieces being cut without warning and the director being told you're not filming those just as production starts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNUrwtNH_aE&t=4m17s


Then Fox hijacked the editing room and changed the final act of the movie drastically.

The discussion is nuanced and it doesn't just bash Fox while painting the "poor abused director" as a saint. The director was called out for putting out a tweet when he should've just let it go. And they touch on the antics that happened during production.

The director of that documentary about the failed Superman Lives film that was supposed to star Nicholas Cage also is part of the discussion and his comments about FF4 start 11 minutes into the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNUrwtNH_aE&t=11m4s

In the opinion of two of the discussion participates the first hour of FF4, where Josh Trank had more control of the editing, was decent (if choppy in terms of editing at times) then when Doom appears the movie change drastically for the worse.

*edited 2 add*



Given that it's based more on the Ultimates comic line and not the main story line that's been in existence for decades it might be out there for people not familiar with the alternate comic universe.

I've only read some early ultimate Spider-man comic and a couple of issues of ultimate X-men. They're different enough and ultimate FF4 might have the material to be way out there because afaik the origin of the FF4's powers has far less in common with the original comics than the ultimate Spider-man's and ultimate X-men's



....

 

[blankslate]

Fox either should have made the movie Trank told them he'd make, or never hired him in the first place. Fucking with it right before filming started and then replacing him at the end was the worst thing they could have done.

Yeah the bad thing is that this impacts the fans of these types of movies negatively. Even if other movies in the superhero genre are doing ok, this mess may turn off other good directors from considering making a move like this because of the potential drama.

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[SP33Demon]

It still took 2nd at the box office last week. Which isn't saying much in the grand scheme of things.

 

[waggy]

If it ain't his fault that really sucks. he is going to get a huge portion of hate over it.

I just hope this causes marvel to get back the movie rights.

 

[preslove]

It still took 2nd at the box office last week. Which isn't saying much in the grand scheme of things.

After marketing and all the reshoots, this thing will struggle to break even.

 

[HumblePie]

The lowest opening super hero movie in a long time for a Thursday-Sunday release of $26.2 mil. Which even that high surprises me. The only thing going for it was there wasn't any other big releases this weekend or it would have made half that. Maybe.

I went and saw MI:RN and enjoyed that. Was talking with some of the staff while waiting for my movie to start about F4 and what they thought. They all universally thought the movie was dumb and horrible. Most were frankly surprised anyone paid to see it. Not that I talked to all the staff but the few I did said that.

 

[preslove]

It only made 60 million worldwide, and there will probably be a huge dropoff next weekend.

 

[HumblePie]

It only made 60 million worldwide, and there will probably be a huge dropoff next weekend.

The contract with Marvel for losing rights doesn't count world wide sales, only domestic from what I recall. So if the movie can't even rake in another $100 in the next month then the IP no longer belongs to Fox. In a macabre sort of way, I am really looking forward to seeing this not break even at all.

 

[preslove]

The contract with Marvel for losing rights doesn't count world wide sales, only domestic from what I recall. So if the movie can't even rake in another $100 in the next month then the IP no longer belongs to Fox. In a macabre sort of way, I am really looking forward to seeing this not break even at all.

It has to make a certain amount of money? That's news to me. The original 90's FF4 that wasn't released certainly didn't make money, but it fulfilled the contract.

 

[Skel]

T<<snip>>


Given that it's based more on the Ultimates comic line and not the main story line that's been in existence for decades it might be out there for people not familiar with the alternate comic universe.

I've only read some early ultimate Spider-man comic and a couple of issues of ultimate X-men. They're different enough and ultimate FF4 might have the material to be way out there because afaik the origin of the Ultimate FF4's powers has far less in common with the original comics than the ultimate Spider-man's and ultimate X-men's



....

From what I had seen/read at the beginning of it all, the movie he was trying to make wasn't based upon any comic. In fact the female who played the Invisible Woman (whose name escapes me at the moment) stated she was told not to read any comics at all as the movie had nothing to do with any of them. All of the actors kept telling the media that this version wasn't in line with the comics so far as to call their powers disabilities and the costumes "containment suits". I'm not going to say the movie he wanted to make would have been better or worse than this pile of crap. I would say his movie still wouldn't have been what most people wanted to see. Movie was broken from the start. The blame game that's now going on isn't going to change that.

 

[HumblePie]

It has to make a certain amount of money? That's news to me. The original 90's FF4 that wasn't released certainly didn't make money, but it fulfilled the contract.

Has to make a certain amount versus what was spent to determine if it was a flop or not. That is how Marvel got the Hulk back after the Ang Lee Hulk flop fiasco. Of course Marvel doesn't have to take it back, but they have the option.

 

[blankslate]

I'm not going to say the movie he wanted to make would have been better or worse than this pile of crap. I would say his movie still wouldn't have been what most people wanted to see. Movie was broken from the start. The blame game that's now going on isn't going to change that.

If that's the case then the studio perhaps should have went with a different director.

However, what they shouldn't have done was agree with the director in principle to make certain movie then make changes to it at the last minute and kick the director out of the editing process for the last half to half 3rd of the movie.

Warner Bros. for example was in talks with a director about the stand alone Wonder Woman movie but they went their separate ways because they had differences in their vision for the movie.
http://www.theverge.com/2015/4/13/8407221/wonder-woman-director-michelle-maclaren-breaking-bad

When you start filming then presumably the Studio has agreed in principle with the director they hired on what the movie is about in terms of plot, tone, etc. etc.

If they had doubts about the FF4 movie directed by Josh Trank then it should definitely have not gotten past the pre-production stage to where they make changes just days before shooting.

Given that the movie according to some people seems ok before the appearance of Dr. Doom I think the chances of the movie being better if Fox Studio hadn't changed it at the last minute are about even.

I mean you can't get much worse than about 10% on rotten tomatoes can you?

....

 

[Skel]

If that's the case then the studio perhaps should have went with a different director.

However, what they shouldn't have done was agree with the director in principle to make certain movie then make changes to it at the last minute and kick the director out of the editing process for the last half to half 3rd of the movie.

Warner Bros. for example was in talks with a director about the stand alone Wonder Woman movie but they went their separate ways because they had differences in their vision for the movie.
http://www.theverge.com/2015/4/13/8407221/wonder-woman-director-michelle-maclaren-breaking-bad

When you start filming then presumably the Studio has agreed in principle with the director they hired on what the movie is about in terms of plot, tone, etc. etc.

If they had doubts about the FF4 movie directed by Josh Trank then it should definitely have not gotten past the pre-production stage to where they make changes just days before shooting.

Given that the movie according to some people seems ok before the appearance of Dr. Doom I think the chances of the movie being better if Fox Studio hadn't changed it at the last minute are about even.

I mean you can't get much worse than about 10% on rotten tomatoes can you?

....

To each their own, but I do think Fox didn't know what they wanted to do with it. Trank came in with a version of the FF that was his, and Fox went with it. It seemed like it was only when the internet kept losing it's mind over all the changes that someone looked over and stepped in. I still maintain based upon all the stuff that was announced/leaked/rumored before Fox stepped in that he was the wrong person for this movie. Again, I can't say if it would have been better but it wouldn't have been the FF movie people wanted.

I also should say this made me feel like the movie sucked all the way through.

Spoiler review where it breaks the entire movie down so you don't need to watch it.. seriously spoilers..

edit: Read that post (if you don't care about spoilers) and tell me which time Doom shows up that it starts to suck..

 

[blankslate]

I still maintain based upon all the stuff that was announced/leaked/rumored before Fox stepped in that he was the wrong person for this movie. Again, I can't say if it would have been better but it wouldn't have been the FF movie people wanted.

It's Fox's movie. Studios own the movies and aside from really well-known directors with a record of hits (like Steven Spielberg) the directors work for them. The movie studio hired the director... they had the final say in who directed the movie.

Based on the video I have seen and what you're posting they probably should have went with a different director, but they didn't. Fox agreed in principle with Josh Trank to make a certain movie with the name FF4 and those characters and apparently they changed the deal at the last minute.

So, sure maybe it wouldn't have been the movie comic fans wanted to see but perhaps if Trank had final cut and had gotten to put in all the action sequences that he wanted for the movie then it might not have been such a disastrous movie but an interesting (if different from the source materials) take on the FF4 characters.

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[Aikouka]

To each their own, but I do think Fox didn't know what they wanted to do with it. Trank came in with a version of the FF that was his, and Fox went with it. It seemed like it was only when the internet kept losing it's mind over all the changes that someone looked over and stepped in.

If I had to guess, they hired him because he already made one movie about a bunch of kids gaining super powers (Chronicle), so let's have him do the same with Fantastic Four! They probably saw that his script was "edgier", and I wouldn't be surprised if someone called it "The Dark Knight of Marvel movies" as Nolan's Batman films are normally referenced in regard to darker/grittier/edgier comic book movies. I don't know if it was Internet backlash, but I wouldn't be surprised if they saw the end result, said "What the fuck is this shit?", and decided that it needed to change to appeal to someone.

The Half in the Bag video on Fantastic Four pretty much stated that the movie doesn't appeal to anyone. It's too dark for kids, too different for comic book fans, and too boring for adults.

 

[blankslate]

but I wouldn't be surprised if they saw the end result, said "What the fuck is this shit?", and decided that it needed to change to appeal to someone.

That's the thing... the end result that Fox initially green-lighted didn't get to be filmed because according to the video I've seen days before production began Fox told the director that 3 action scenes in the approved script weren't going into the movie so they probably weren't filmed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNUrwtNH_aE&t=4m43s

"...days before production began, Fox came in and made him pull three main action set-pieces out of the film..."


I could be understanding it wrong but it seems to me that 3 action scenes in the script were pulled out of the movie because Fox told Josh Trank "You're not filming them."

The people in the video discussing the movie also call Josh Trank dumb for putting things out there in the "twitter-verse".

....

 

[preslove]

To each their own, but I do think Fox didn't know what they wanted to do with it. Trank came in with a version of the FF that was his, and Fox went with it. It seemed like it was only when the internet kept losing it's mind over all the changes that someone looked over and stepped in. I still maintain based upon all the stuff that was announced/leaked/rumored before Fox stepped in that he was the wrong person for this movie. Again, I can't say if it would have been better but it wouldn't have been the FF movie people wanted.

I also should say this made me feel like the movie sucked all the way through.

Spoiler review where it breaks the entire movie down so you don't need to watch it.. seriously spoilers..

edit: Read that post (if you don't care about spoilers) and tell me which time Doom shows up that it starts to suck..

Fox came in and cancelled the 3 action set pieces before filming started, which means there weren't a lot of rumors or leaks. The internet started hating AFTER Fox already ruined the movie, lol.

General audiences probably would have liked this movie a lot more if Fox hadn't cancelled MOST of the action in the movie at the very LAST minute.

 

[Ns1]

Fox came in and cancelled the 3 action set pieces before filming started, which means there weren't a lot of rumors or leaks. The internet started hating AFTER Fox already ruined the movie, lol.

General audiences probably would have liked this movie a lot more if Fox hadn't cancelled MOST of the action in the movie at the very LAST minute.

You assume that the action sequences would have saved the movie.

 

[blankslate]

You assume that the action sequences would have saved the movie.

Perhaps not but it shows how much Fox interfered with the movie after a script was approved.


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