Fast 19" 8 bit LCD - is there such a thing?

[Sleepyghost]

EDIT 3
Before any comments or confusion..
by "8bit" I, like the manufacturers, mean true 16.7M color panel. Thanks.
My choice became LaCie. Brief review on page 3.

EDIT 2
I found the screen for me. Read futher if you want to know what this tread was
about (it's not too long) or jump to last pages.

EDIT
This topic was about finding a fast 19" LCD with good color depth - a true all around LCD.
Idea is not to bash about whether LCD is as good as CRT in gaming.. for that look in threads like:
"Have LCDs caught up with CRTs yet for gamers? "

Old posts follow.

-----------------------------

First post, first question.. to you pros out there.
I've been around the forums and Anandtech for a month now and am still very much a newbie. Going to get a new system around christmas. As graphics is what I do more and more, monitor is very important. It should be a LCD as CRTs hurt my eyes.

I'd like a good 19" panel with 16ms and 8-bit depth if such a thing exists. 16ms because I do like to play some games and understand it also helps with movie playback. My monitor budget is around 400-600 euros (about the same in dollars). If I had 700 to spend, I'd probably go for Samsung 193P (20ms).
So what do you recommend?

Or should I bite the bullet (on games) and go for 25ms screens?

New Anandtech guide is helpful but doesn't tell on all panels if they are 8-bit or 6. Also I have looked for deciding reviews left and right, but still am undecided & confused.

I live in Europe. Dell is not very well available here and neither are all models from other companies. Interesting companies are Viewsonic, Samsung, Philips, BenQ, and LG.

BTW Viewsonic USA home site claims 16ms for their VP191S / VP191B, but local online shop & Viewsonic Europe say 25ms. Who to trust?
Also companies often fail to mention if something is 8-bit or not - dithered 16.7 million colors or not.. you know how it goes.

I would really appreciate your help, thanks

 

[Tiamat]

Most companies don't outright lie about their colors. If its Dithered, it should state 16.2 Million colors. If it is true, then it should state 16.7 Million colors. I believe the 12ms panels are non-dithered. The Samsung 193P looks to be a very very nice 19" LCD.

 

[Sleepyghost]

Thanks Tiamat
That clarifies things a bit. So 16.7 M colors is true non-dithered. I should look for that then.
Yes, Samsung 193P is very nice indeed, but about 100 euros out of my price range.

So question still remains.. people please give recommendations, your favourites or such.

About the new 12ms 19" screens.. Very interesting and cool and I confess I've been looking for VX912 review ever since it came out. But see what I got from the net:

BenQ FP937s 12ms
16.2 million colours with dithering (from BenQ site)

Viewsonic VX912 12ms
Viewsonic Europe doesn't give color info at all, very strange

 

[Nessism]

I've been looking for the same thing: 19" size, good color depth, fast enough to play occasional games, and deceint viewing angles. Current TFT technology is challanged to provide all these things; if you look close at specs, you will notice that most faster screens only have limited viewing angles. Also, faster screens don't have the high constrast ratios that good color reproduction require.

If you find something please share.

Ed

 

[Sleepyghost]

Hi Ed

It is difficult combination to meet for sure. Still I'd expect some manufacturer to have done it by now. One that really captured my interest was Viewsonic Vp912b.

details:
http://www.viewsonic.com/produ...lays/proseries/vp912b/

review:
http://www.gamepc.com/labs/vie...p?id=vp912b&page=1

It is with 450:1 contrast ratio wich just might do, I'm not sure. Also probably a 6-bit panel. Reviewer touches on the subject as well, but can't tell if it's 6-bit or not. Viewsonic chooses not to inform. Anyway reviewer really likes it (for gaming and otherwise). Also it has wild 400cd/m2 brightness.. opposed to normal 250cd/m2.

Problem with that panel for me is that Viewsonic is not really putting it out in Europe. I'm sure it is a available somewhere. One local vendor here sells it but with 2-4 week wait period.. and that would be like buying promises. It is a different case in USA I'm sure.

Happy searching Please do share too if you find something of interest.

 

[Elcs]

As mentioned, I dont think you can get a 19" TFT to do everything you want. Is it such a crime if you go for a 17"? Im a gamer and I love my 17" TFT even though it may not be the best. I think 17" is the sweet spot currently. Perhaps it will take a few more months to get the 19" TFT's up to the high standard you so desire. By then, you might have more euros to burn

 

[Nessism]

Originally posted by: Elcs
As mentioned, I dont think you can get a 19" TFT to do everything you want. Is it such a crime if you go for a 17"? Im a gamer and I love my 17" TFT even though it may not be the best. I think 17" is the sweet spot currently. Perhaps it will take a few more months to get the 19" TFT's up to the high standard you so desire. By then, you might have more euros to burn

The issue with a 17"er is the text size is so darn small. Very difficult to read for me. 19" uses the same resolution so text size is larger. Also, those fast 17"ers have shallow viewing angles.

Oh, and that Viewsonic is a $700 monitor Way too much in my opinion.

 

[Sleepyghost]

Thank you Elcs for commenting.
17" is the sweet spot still, I agree. But ah heck me I would love a slightly bigger screen than that.

But if we start looking into 17 inc LCDs, are there any good 16ms AND 8-bit (true 16,7 M colors) panels
there either? I admit haven't seen to most reviews yet, but I'm looking and so far with little results.
Maybe the problem is exactly the same with 17" panels too (?).

BEHardware has a nice 17" group test done in November 2004..
http://www.behardware.com/html/cat/22/
Also they have one where 17" LCD and CRT go head to head.
BenQ FP767 (12ms) looks quite good here.

And Tomshardware..
http://graphics.tomshardware.c...ay/20041123/index.html
Toms test had one panel with 16.7 million colors, NEC LCD72VM, but it didn't do too well
regardless. Samsung 710T looks the best bet from this bunch, but it's viewing angles aren't too good.
Like NEssim just noted, fast 17"ers have shallow viewing angles. But I suppose fats 19"ers have that problem too.

 

[Sleepyghost]

Hello Ed

Yea, so there had to something wrong with that vp912b. Price.
I hope someone would review VX912 soon.
It looks to have similar panel with vp912b but reduced ergonomics and a different coating on the panel. It should be fast (12ms), but I wonder how will it do otherwise.. as they choose not to tell about the colors. VX912 is around 500 euros here.


Hello you all
You other pros (I'm not one) out there, I would still love to hear your take on this.
I'm asking for recommendations on 19"ers with good color detph, viewing angles and hopefully 16ms or better. Maybe 20ms would do the trick too.

 

[GnomeCop]

this does not exist yet

 

[Sleepyghost]

Originally posted by: GnomeCop
this does not exist yet

Short and blunt, that's how we like it
That's how it seemed to me. I was just hoping somebody would prove me wrong. Oh well, I guess I will have to make compromises somewhere. But I have still about three weeks or so for looking around (waiting for those Nforce4 boards you see). Maybe something will turn up.

I would appreciate your recommendations.. now on the best 19" LCD with a compromise between color depth, speed and view angles. Samsung 193P is a fine example, just too expensive.

Thanks!

 

[johnnyjay]

I've been searching for a similar monitor and while searching various sites I found this.

It seems AUO is making a 19" LCD panel with 16.7 million colors and a 8ms gray to gray stated response time. I probably won't be able to afford it but if the specs are true there might be some nice LCD's coming out soon.

 

[Sleepyghost]

Holy moly!

Thanks johnnyjay.
That will be one sweet panel and possibly, I'm hoping, not horribly expensive. Why? Read futher..

at www.behardware.com on 12/11/2004 :
"The news today is that Samsung will release in December in Germany a 19? LCD screen equipped with a 8ms panel: the 913N. We don?t know yet the availability for the rest of the world and it price for the US (European price 500?)."

I wonder if upcoming Samsung 913N will be using just that panel... hmm. I hope so. Also later at BeHarware they noted that 913N will be first released in December only in Germany and France, and then followed by actual release in January 2005. Anyway in the meantime Samsung hasn't released a 12ms 19" panel unlike some others, so maybe they decided to hold and answer with this whopper.

I'm glad they developed MVA panel futher (and not TN), because even the 'older' MVA ones had wide viewing angles and very good contrast. I have this impression, feel free to correct me.

Now I, having decided for many reasons (including tax) to buy my computer rig this year, am in some trouble. What monitor to buy in the meantime and not loose hundreds of euros when re-selling? Damnation. :|

 

[Kingofcomputer]

Eizo L778

http://www.eizo.com/products/lcd/l778/spec.asp

Panel Size and Type 48 cm (19.0") TFT color LCD panel
Viewing Angles (H, V) 178° , 178° (at contrast ratio of 10:1)
Brightness / Contrast 250 cd/m2 / 1000:1
Response Time 16 ms (typical)
Midtone Response Time 12 ms1 (typical)
Native Resolution 1280 × 1024
Active Display Size (H, V) 376 × 301 mm / 14.8 × 11.9"
Viewable Image Size Diagonal: 481 mm / 19.0"
Pixel Pitch 0.294 × 0.294 mm
Display Colors 16.77 million from a palette of 1.06 billion

 

[vailr]

Newegg lists 2 - 19" LCD Flat Panels, having a 16ms Response Time (doesn't list whether 16.2 or 16.7 million colors); however, neither seem to include DVI inputs:

ACER AL1912b 19" Black LCD Monitor -RETAIL - $379.99

NEC/MITSUBISHI AccuSync LCD92V-BK 19" TFT LCD - $509.00

Also, 2 with a 12ms Response Time (only the Viewsonic lists a DVI input):

PHILIPS 190S5FB 19" LCD Monitor, 12ms -RETAIL - $446.99

ViewSonic VP912B 19" LCD Monitor -RETAIL - $699.00

 

[Spartan Mustang]

The Dell2001fp is simple the best avalible monitor on the market. It is curently going for 800$$ but a few weeks ago i saw it on sale for 650$$$ (u.s. dollars) My advise, espicially if your a gamer is to wait a bit and buy this beuty. It truly is the best monitor avalible and worth all your money. heres the link and good luck

http://accessories.us.dell.com...8&category_id=4009

 

[johnnyjay]

Originally posted by: vailr

ViewSonic VP912B 19" LCD Monitor -RETAIL - $699.00

According to the pdf product comparison chart at Viewsonic it does support 16.7 million colors. link

 

[PhoenixOrion]

A lot of gamers swear by BOE-Hydis LCD's.

I personally prefer BenQ and Acer panels.

But then again I'm not sure but both may or may not use hydis panels.

Seems that AU-Optronics, mentioned in this thread, and LG-Philips have nice but high-end ( =pricey) monitors.

 

[johnnyjay]

Two more monitors from LG with 12ms response time and 16.7 million colors. link
The L1930BQ and L1930SQ, neither seem to be available yet.

 

[Sleepyghost]

Hey, thanks to you all. I didn't expect my questions would receive such a response. Cheers.

I was thinking splitting my PC purchase.. getting most of my rig (Nforce4, PCI-E and so on) this December and monitor later. Possibly that upcoming Samsung 8ms panel. But it seems there are more options available.

Still, as LCD prices are expected to fall (again) at the beginning of next year, it might be a good call to just wait.. especially because monitor will be the most expensive part in my system. Also I have read comments on this forum regarding christmas shopping. Most suggest christmas will not bring any price reductions and that better time would be after. So maybe I'll just wait and stick with my CRT a bit longer.

Still big thank you for the info. I'll check on those panels you mentioned.. and keep looking.

 

[Mik3y]

Originally posted by: Spartan Mustang
The Dell2001fp is simple the best avalible monitor on the market. It is curently going for 800$$ but a few weeks ago i saw it on sale for 650$$$ (u.s. dollars) My advise, espicially if your a gamer is to wait a bit and buy this beuty. It truly is the best monitor avalible and worth all your money. heres the link and good luck

http://accessories.us.dell.com...8&category_id=4009

the dell2001fp is hardly the best lcd monitor available. i agree taht it's a great monitor, but there are others taht are better.

 

[grey2grey]

Hey there. I've got a few questions to add! Go easy on me, beginner here to all these terms.

I'm also in the market for a gaming LCD that is 19" and I've decided so far that the Viewsonic VP912b is the way to go atm.

here are the questions though!

Some monitors do not specity if the response time in ms is grey to grey (hehe... my user name) or not. If it is not listed as being grey to grey, is it by default? There's an AUO monitor someone listed as 8ms, is it actually 16?

Is the difference between an analog and a digital monitor? And is the difference large enough to notice? If I'm using DVI will it be alot better? I plan to do highspeed gaming and DVD playback on this screen.

The Samsung 913N someone listed doesn't appear to be digital, even though it's sporting some VERY nice features like 800:1 contrast and 300:1 brightness.

Here's an email I got back from Viewsonic: (PLEASE don't laugh at my question lol, I wasn't educated on any monitor terms at the time)

-------------------

Dear Valued Customer,

Thank you for contacting ViewSonic Technical Support.

The ratio is 4:3. The monitor will support the true color 32 bit used
in Windows.

Regards,

ViewSonic Technical Support
ViewSonic Corporation
381 Brea Canyon Road
Walnut, CA 91789

I was wondering about your 19" monitor the VP912B:

what is the ratio thingey? 4:3 ? 5:4 ?

is it 6bit or 8 bit? i'm not sure the actual term lol.. true 24bit
color is what i'm hoping for.

I think that's it.

thanks.

------------------------------------

The only drawback I see about the viewsonic vp912b is that it has a brightness of 450:1 whereas some other 19" sport 800:1.

Help! Is the Viewsonic vp912b compensating for it's low contrast ratio by putting the brightness up at 400 ?

Is the Viewsonic vp912b the best on the market for fast paced gaming and viewing regardless of it's high price tag to this date? or is the Samsung 913N worth waiting for?

-Thanks in advance guys! sorry if this is a mess of crap and confusing!

 

[CaMSpoon]

Right now im using a 21 inch CRT which i love but I cant stand the amount of heat it gives out and it takes up the whole desk. Now I guess ill never get a LCD becuase theres no way im going smaller then 21" and i really want 1600x1200 res. The computer is used mostly for movies and games. I guess ill be stuck with my CRT for a long time becuase im not spending 1500 (canadian) for one of those LCDS

Would like widescreen for my next monitor since movies are all wide and games are starting to be widescreen.

 

[CrystalBay]

The Vp912b/s also has a reflective coating that can be really annoying...

 

[johnnyjay]

The default listed response time is black to white, it's not possible to determine gray to gray with it.

Some say digital makes a difference but some say they can't tell the difference. If your video card supports DVI I say use it.

The specs listed by manufacturers are only to be used as a guideline you should really base you purchase on reviews and opinions of owners of the monitor. the Viewsonic may or may not be an 8bit panel.

The "best" gaming monitor is a matter of opinion. Candidates you should consider are:
Viewsonic vp912b
Samsung 193P
If you're in the US the Dell 2001fp and maybe the new 2005fpw.

If you could wait a few months there will be better monitors coming out, a few are mentioned in this thread.