Fast Food walkout - Nationwide

[Retro Rob]

http://m.washingtonpost.com/busines...ebf748-0684-11e3-9259-e2aafe5a5f84_story.html

I spent several years working in fast food, and I couldn't fathom how I could justify asking my boss to pay me $15/hr -- especially seeing all I did was make sandwiches and counted change (no math involved -- it's all done for you).

Yeah, you can't "raise a family" off $9/hr nor buy a house, but my question is: why are you trying to do those things off that salary anyway?

If they did succeed in getting that pay, well....be prepared to pay $10 for a cheeseburger..

This is so stupid. Everything has a trade off. They'll either fire most of the workforce or we'd be paying 10 bucks for a burger.

Simply short-sighted and greedy.

 

[Brigandier]

Something needs to change. These jobs are structured in a way that keeps employees under full-time, and the nature of schedules males it difficult to get any meaningful second job.

I say remove the penalties for hiring full-time workers.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I guess come August 30th there will be many new people trying to get unemployment. I wonder if they will denied due to walking off their job.

 

[Incorruptible]

This won't work at all. If they raise the minimum wage which the government doesn't have the right to raise then all that happens is there will be price increases and layoffs.

 

[ivwshane]

http://m.washingtonpost.com/busines...ebf748-0684-11e3-9259-e2aafe5a5f84_story.html

I spent several years working in fast food, and I couldn't fathom how I could justify asking my boss to pay me $15/hr -- especially seeing all I did was make sandwiches and counted change (no math involved -- it's all done for you).

Yeah, you can't "raise a family" off $9/hr nor buy a house, but my question is: why are you trying to do those things off that salary anyway?

If they did succeed in getting that pay, well....be prepared to pay $10 for a cheeseburger..

This is so stupid. Everything has a trade off. They'll either fire most of the workforce or we'd be paying 10 bucks for a burger.

Simply short-sighted and greedy.

I already pay $10 for a hamburger, as do millions of other Americans. The difference being for that $10 I get a better burger, better tasting, healthier, and a larger burger. Of course I have to wait about 10-20 minutes to get it.

Do you believe in laissez-faire capitalism? If you do then I'm sure you would see this as the free marketplace making a correction to itself.

 

[Double Trouble]

Hopefully all those walking out will get canned and receive no unemployment benefits. I have no idea why dumb people think those who work a low skill no education job should automatically be entitled to be paid a certain amount. If you're not worth that much to your employer because someone else can do the job just as well for less, then you're going to either gain more skills or work for less.

 

[EagleKeeper]

What happened with the walk out in NYC?

 

[ivwshane]

Hopefully all those walking out will get canned and receive no unemployment benefits. I have no idea why dumb people think those who work a low skill no education job should automatically be entitled to be paid a certain amount. If you're not worth that much to your employer because someone else can do the job just as well for less, then you're going to either gain more skills or work for less.

Hmm...who decides who is worth what? The employer? Well that seems like a conflict of interest. Should the employee or potential employee decide? That seems like a conflict of interest as well. Maybe the government should decide? Would you be ok with that? I doubt you would.

So it's probably safe to assume that either, A) you don't believe or agree with free market capitalism.
B) You favor corporations more than you do your fellow citizen.
C) You put your own needs/wants above everyone elses which makes you no different than them.
Or
D) You wish to hinder people's ability to move up.



Hint:
All three, employers, employees, and the government work for or against each other to create the right balance, hinder any one such group and the balance is out if whack. Stop trying to hinder your fellow man!

 

[Atreus21]

Hmm...who decides who is worth what? The employer? Well that seems like a conflict of interest. Should the employee or potential employee decide? That seems like a conflict of interest as well. Maybe the government should decide? Would you be ok with that? I doubt you would.

So it's probably safe to assume that either, A) you don't believe or agree with free market capitalism.
B) You favor corporations more than you do your fellow citizen.
C) You put your own needs/wants above everyone elses which makes you no different than them.
Or
D) You wish to hinder people's ability to move up.

Hint:
All three, employers, employees, and the government work for or against each other to create the right balance, hinder any one such group and the balance is out if whack. Stop trying to hinder your fellow man!

Negative. The price of a good is up to the parties involved to negotiate. The government has no business inserting itself into that.

If I can't sell my labor for $9/hr, the government has no right to force someone to hire me. In other words, no one should be forced to buy a product they don't want.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Something needs to change. These jobs are structured in a way that keeps employees under full-time, and the nature of schedules males it difficult to get any meaningful second job.

I say remove the penalties for hiring full-time workers.

What needs to change is people need to stay in school, work hard, and not rely on the government handouts and boosters.


That's all this is.... Kids, young people, who didn't take anything seriously. Then they wake up at age 28 flipping burgers, and think the only way out is to refuse to work. And catering to this just teaches young people that you don't have to work hard, just vote for our Dear Leader and the progressives will make sure you have a nice EBT card and late model chrysler product.




Fire them all. Every single one. I don't know why any fast food place needs workers at all. Just hit a button on a screen, have a machine cook the burger, end of story.

 

[TechBoyJK]

Hmm...who decides who is worth what? The employer? Well that seems like a conflict of interest. Should the employee or potential employee decide? That seems like a conflict of interest as well. Maybe the government should decide? Would you be ok with that? I doubt you would.

So it's probably safe to assume that either, A) you don't believe or agree with free market capitalism.
B) You favor corporations more than you do your fellow citizen.
C) You put your own needs/wants above everyone elses which makes you no different than them.
Or
D) You wish to hinder people's ability to move up.



Hint:
All three, employers, employees, and the government work for or against each other to create the right balance, hinder any one such group and the balance is out if whack. Stop trying to hinder your fellow man!

It's not so much that the employer decides what the employee is worth, they decide what they are willing to pay.

Gov should stay out. In a truly free market, the wage issue will work itself out on it's own by natural market forces.

Only want to pay people $3 an hour? fine. Try it. If you can find people willing to do the work for that pay, then go for it. But if you can't run your business because you don't have help because nobody will work for $3 an hour, then you need to raise your wage or watch your business die.

 

[Phokus]

It's not so much that the employer decides what the employee is worth, they decide what they are willing to pay.

Gov should stay out. In a truly free market, the wage issue will work itself out on it's own by natural market forces.

Only want to pay people $3 an hour? fine. Try it. If you can find people willing to do the work for that pay, then go for it. But if you can't run your business because you don't have help because nobody will work for $3 an hour, then you need to raise your wage or watch your business die.

People will be more than willing to work for $3 an hour and even less. The 'free market' won't fix shit. How do i know this? The Free Market bastion of Hong Kong, which conservatives and libertarians rave about, recently raised it's minimum wage to $3.90. Now, you're probably saying to yourself, "But Hong Kong has a higher Purchasing Power Parity than the US, there's no way anyone there would be paid LESS than $3.90!". BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT, wrong:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...e-minimum-wage-by-7-1-as-inflation-bites.html

The proposal will bolster the wages of about 327,200 employees, or 10 percent of the city’s workers, according to a earlier report by a government commission.

TEN PERCENT of it's workers were making LESS than $3.90 an HOUR in a free market city state where the standard of living is technically HIGHER than the United States. By 1st world standards, that's just plain awful (compared to Australia which has a minimum wage of $16 and even the US which is $7.something). Desperation for work ALWAYS drives down wages, EVEN IF it goes below your basic requirements for basic needs.

 

[Atreus21]

People will be more than willing to work for $3 an hour and even less. The 'free market' won't fix shit. How do i know this? The Free Market bastion of Hong Kong, which conservatives and libertarians rave about, recently raised it's minimum wage to $3.90. Now, you're probably saying to yourself, "But Hong Kong has a higher Purchasing Power Parity than the US, there's no way anyone there would be paid LESS than $3.90!". BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT, wrong:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...e-minimum-wage-by-7-1-as-inflation-bites.html

The proposal will bolster the wages of about 327,200 employees, or 10 percent of the city’s workers, according to a earlier report by a government commission.

TEN PERCENT of it's workers were making LESS than $3.90 an HOUR in a free market city state where the standard of living is technically HIGHER than the United States.

Should people be allowed to set prices for their labor or not?

 

[Phokus]

Should people be allowed to set prices for their labor or not?

No, and i used to be somewhat against the minimum wage and for other alternatives like minimum income transfer payments, but recent economic studies have shown that the orthodoxy on the negative effects of the minimum wage are wrong. I'm going to post another thread on this in a few minutes because it's a comprehensive topic i want to talk about.

 

[CrackRabbit]

Should people be allowed to set prices for their labor or not?

Yes, this was the original idea behind unions. Group together to collectively set the price of the group's labor.
Sadly that original idea got lost somewhere along the way and unions (for the most part) are just another way for the fat cats to get fatter and the lazy to coast along.

Edit: This kind of goes with my simplified view of the market forces involved. Labor and Owners are two of those.
Labor always wants to be paid more for their work and Owners always want to pay labor less to make more profit. These are generalities and do not represent every point of the equation.
When labor gets the upper hand you end up with things like the 'old' US Auto manufacturers, the UAW ruled and much money was wasted on unskilled labor.
When owners get the upper hand you tend to see reduction in personnel totals, lowered wages and benefits, and things like making employees part time to save on benefit costs. Think current big box retailers and companies like Wal-Mart.
An equilibrium of the two results in something like Costco, Labor is happy because they feel they are paid well enough for their work and Owners are happy because they still make a large enough profit.

 

[Atreus21]

No, and i used to be somewhat against the minimum wage and for other alternatives like minimum income transfer payments, but recent economic studies have shown that the orthodoxy on the negative effects of the minimum wage are wrong. I'm going to post another thread on this in a few minutes because it's a comprehensive topic i want to talk about.

Okay, then I'll wait for that.

 

[soulcougher73]

All depends where you live. Out in South Dakota the fed min. wage is probably fine, but in NYC its not going to cut it. And unless fast food is willing to leave big expensive cities something is going to have to give unfortunatly.

 

[Genx87]

People will be more than willing to work for $3 an hour and even less. The 'free market' won't fix shit. How do i know this? The Free Market bastion of Hong Kong, which conservatives and libertarians rave about, recently raised it's minimum wage to $3.90. Now, you're probably saying to yourself, "But Hong Kong has a higher Purchasing Power Parity than the US, there's no way anyone there would be paid LESS than $3.90!". BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT, wrong:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...e-minimum-wage-by-7-1-as-inflation-bites.html

The proposal will bolster the wages of about 327,200 employees, or 10 percent of the city’s workers, according to a earlier report by a government commission.

TEN PERCENT of it's workers were making LESS than $3.90 an HOUR in a free market city state where the standard of living is technically HIGHER than the United States. By 1st world standards, that's just plain awful (compared to Australia which has a minimum wage of $16 and even the US which is $7.something). Desperation for work ALWAYS drives down wages, EVEN IF it goes below your basic requirements for basic needs.

/facepalm. You compare Hong Kong to the United States. You know how I know the majority of these people wont work for 3 dollars an hour? Because a lot of them are already making more than the min wage.

 

[Phokus]

Okay, then I'll wait for that.

I posted here, it's a far more complicated topic than what this thread offers

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2338297

 

[soulcougher73]

Unions cropped up for this exact reason back in the day. If you let business' run free and wild they will pay you shit and make you work dangerour jobs without safety requirements and work long hours for peanuts. And that is just the 12 year olds

You have to find a good balance or some kind of lowest standard of a livable wage. And i agree the min wage should not be expected to support a family or buy a home etc.

 

[Incorruptible]

/facepalm. You compare Hong Kong to the United States. You know how I know the majority of these people wont work for 3 dollars an hour? Because a lot of them are already making more than the min wage.

This. Fast food workers don't have the necessary skills to justify a wage of $15/hr. These are meant to be entry level jobs for high school and university students.

They are not meant to support a family.

 

[Retro Rob]

I already pay $10 for a hamburger, as do millions of other Americans. The difference being for that $10 I get a better burger, better tasting, healthier, and a larger burger. Of course I have to wait about 10-20 minutes to get it.

Do you believe in laissez-faire capitalism? If you do then I'm sure you would see this as the free marketplace making a correction to itself.

LOL you're not paying 10 bucks for a burger that's been in a warming bin for 15 minutes, which was my point.

Pay a teenager 30k/yr and that's exactly what you'll be doing.

 

[Retro Rob]

What needs to change is people need to stay in school, work hard, and not rely on the government handouts and boosters.


That's all this is.... Kids, young people, who didn't take anything seriously. Then they wake up at age 28 flipping burgers, and think the only way out is to refuse to work. And catering to this just teaches young people that you don't have to work hard, just vote for our Dear Leader and the progressives will make sure you have a nice EBT card and late model chrysler product.




Fire them all. Every single one. I don't know why any fast food place needs workers at all. Just hit a button on a screen, have a machine cook the burger, end of story.

I agree with most of this, but IMO, it's not about the pay as mush as it is about wanting McDonalds to fund a 100k home and brand new car, as you eluded to.

I've always looked at jobs like those as starter jobs, unless you're working to manage and/or own one, which some have done.

I think Larry Elder feels the same way you do, and I do somewhat agree with some of points.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

I agree with most of this, but IMO, it's not about the pay as mush as it is about wanting McDonalds to fund a 100k home and brand new car, as you eluded to.

I've always looked at jobs like those as starter jobs, unless you're working to manage and/or own one, which some have done.

I think Larry Elder feels the same way you do, and I do somewhat agree with some of points.

Well the people walking out and protesting aren't the 17 year olds in high school. It's the lazy 25-30 year olds who didn't go to college or care about school and have no future. Many of them watched their parents cash in monthly gubment checks for "ADD" and thought that would be their end game.

Their option is either work two min wage jobs at 80 hours a week (which is COMPLETELY reasonable, you make these choices and you have to live with them) OR get on the government handout programs.


It's a sad, slippery slope but we must let these people fail. The more we show our young people that they don't have to work the more divided our society will be.


One of the more frustrating aspects of this situation is that if we do raise the min wage the response will be to automate everything.

And, the progressives will then use liberalie logic to blame the "evil rich people" for eliminating these jobs.

 

[Retro Rob]

Well the people walking out and protesting aren't the 17 year olds in high school. It's the lazy 25-30 year olds who didn't go to college or care about school and have no future. Many of them watched their parents cash in monthly gubment checks for "ADD" and thought that would be their end game.

Their option is either work two min wage jobs at 80 hours a week (which is COMPLETELY reasonable, you make these choices and you have to live with them) OR get on the government handout programs.


It's a sad, slippery slope but we must let these people fail. The more we show our young people that they don't have to work the more divided our society will be.


One of the more frustrating aspects of this situation is that if we do raise the min wage the response will be to automate everything.

And, the progressives will then use liberalie logic to blame the "evil rich people" for eliminating these jobs.

That's the thing -- that's why these are starter jobs.

They're already blaming this on "evil rich people"... a lady use the logic "why pay them 15k/year when exectives makes 25k/day"?

WTH?!?

Your pay isn't based on the pay of the CEO's -- its based on your level of responsibilty. Sure, cooks/cashiers work hard...but exectives are responsible for the financial success of the company, NOT cashiers/cooks.

So they should be making way more.