Fatah Gunmen Seize Palestinian Parliament - UPDATED 1-28-06

[Bumrush99]

I'm very pro Israel, yet I think some good may come of us. Hamas is basically cornered, in charge of more than they can handle. How they react to capturing power will determine their fate. I'm hoping they abandon the desire to destroy Israel and clean up Palestinian politics. But if they decide to aid and abet terrorist activity, the entire region will turn chaotic/

 

[DBL]

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: Doboji
Kinda hard to work on a peace agreement with an organization who declares their entire goal as being your destruction. Kinda hard to work with a group who admits, advocates for, supports, enables, and in fact carries out targeted attacks against innocent civillians on a regular basis.

Hamas has made only one public statement condemning the US that I can find and that was after the US vetoed a UN resolution condemning Israeli military attacks against them in Gaza.

You?re having trouble understanding. The publicly stated goal of Hamas is the destruction of Israel. How can you support an organization like this, let alone negotiate with them? The US supports Israel?s right to exist so therefore, how can Hamas be taken seriously?

 

[MegaWorks]

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong
Just proves that, despite the illusion held by the Left that the Palestinians just want peace, the real truth is that they are commited to eternal war with Israel and DO NOT want it to end. Your darling Palestianians are really racist religious fanatics and hatemongering terrorists, the kind of people the Left would do everything to stop if they lived in the USA (and rightly so). They're half Pat Robertson/Jerry Falwell and half KKK/Neo-nazi skinhead, but since they're overseas and opposed to the Jews, everybody loves them. Its disgusting.

Go ahead and keep blaming the Jews for all the troubles of the ME, even though they're the ONLY democracy in that entire troublesome region, and the only party in this conflict that really desires peace.

And Iraq is what exactly? A theocracy? Your ignorance is amazing!

 

[1sikbITCH]

Originally posted by: lozina
Don't forget the Fatah party also had militant wings associated with terrorism like the Al Aksa Brigade (spelling?) so there isn't much new here. Don't know why the media doesn't like to point this out. I'm guessing there won't be new violence. In exit polls 54% of those PAlestinians who voted for Hamas also said they favor peace.

54% want peace? That's nothing to brag about. Nearly half of Hamas supporters want war.

Then they are refusing to change their charter, which read:

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it."

"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

"After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying."

Now that Hamas is in charge, the US and Israel will say that the Palestinians practice "state sponsored terrorism", and Israel will go wipe them out. Not saying that's good or bad, just that it's a reasonable assumption based on our past history.

 

[Aimster]

I don't think they want the destruction of Israel.

The state of Israel is simply wrong in many people's eyes.

The Jews got control of a piece of land that is holy in three religions.

Is this fair to the other religions? No.

It should be controlled by the UN.

If you want to argue this with me , explain to me how a religion of 14 million people has rights to a holy land over the Muslims and Christians. The reason it is not a problem with the Christians is because Christians do not live there today.

 

[DealMonkey]

So we've gone from Yasser Arafat to Hamas? Perect, one terrorist leader to another. Great, just great. And now I suppose Bush will have yet another excuse to remain disengaged in the peace process.

 

[TheSlamma]

Good, now lets leave them and Israel to deal with this all on their OWN. Leave us out of it.

 

[MegaWorks]

Originally posted by: DBL

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: Doboji
Kinda hard to work on a peace agreement with an organization who declares their entire goal as being your destruction. Kinda hard to work with a group who admits, advocates for, supports, enables, and in fact carries out targeted attacks against innocent civillians on a regular basis.

Hamas has made only one public statement condemning the US that I can find and that was after the US vetoed a UN resolution condemning Israeli military attacks against them in Gaza.

You?re having trouble understanding. The publicly stated goal of Hamas is the destruction of Israel. How can you support an organization like this, let alone negotiate with them? The US supports Israel?s right to exist so therefore, how can Hamas be taken seriously?

Well we have to deal with it; their own people democratically elected them. Do we really have any other choice? I have to deal with the other side that represents its population. If I truly want peace I will try to deal with them, even if they seek my destruction a least I'll play my part of the game.

Edit: Spelling

 

[DBL]

Originally posted by: MegaWorks
Well we have to deal with it; their own people democratically elected them. Do we really have any other choice? I have to deal with the other side that represents its population. If I truly want peace I will try to deal with them, even if they seek my destruction a least I'll play my part of the game.

Edit: Spelling

Considering the past history of Hamas, I think any reasonable person would expect Hamas to put forth the first effort. It's not time for Israel to do anything. It's time for Hamas.

 

[MegaWorks]

Originally posted by: DBL

Originally posted by: MegaWorks
Well we have to deal with it; their own people democratically elected them. Do we really have any other choice? I have to deal with the other side that represents its population. If I truly want peace I will try to deal with them, even if they seek my destruction a least I'll play my part of the game.

Edit: Spelling

Considering the past history of Hamas, I think any reasonable person would expect Hamas to put forth the first effort. It's not time for Israel to do anything. It's time for Hamas.

I think both of them should put an effort in they want peace.

 

[maddogchen]

World Leaders Shocked at Hamas Win

LOL, world leaders sure are dumb.

 

[azazyel]

"Palestinian legislator Hanan Ashrawi, who apparently was re-elected on a moderate platform, said the Hamas victory was a dramatic turning point. She said she is concerned the militants will now impose their fundamentalist social agenda and lead the Palestinians into international isolation.

She said Fatah's corruption, Israel's tough measures and international indifference to the plight of the Palestinians were to blame for Hamas' strong showing.

Washington miscalculated in pushing for the vote, as part of its pro-democracy campaign in the Arab world, she said. "The Americans insisted on having the election now, so they have to respect the results of the election, as we all do," she said."


Is that true, did we rush the election?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060126/ap_...0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b3JuZGZhBHNlYwM3MjE-

 

[tommywishbone]

It appears that the USA has more in common with Palestine than we thought: we support & elect an administration commited to violence and the destruction of a country... they support & elect an administration commited to violence and the destruction of a country.

All hail Hamas!
All hail George W Bush!

 

[Future Shock]

Originally posted by: DBL

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: Doboji
Kinda hard to work on a peace agreement with an organization who declares their entire goal as being your destruction. Kinda hard to work with a group who admits, advocates for, supports, enables, and in fact carries out targeted attacks against innocent civillians on a regular basis.

Hamas has made only one public statement condemning the US that I can find and that was after the US vetoed a UN resolution condemning Israeli military attacks against them in Gaza.

You?re having trouble understanding. The publicly stated goal of Hamas is the destruction of Israel. How can you support an organization like this, let alone negotiate with them? The US supports Israel?s right to exist so therefore, how can Hamas be taken seriously?

Because the publically stated goal of the IRA was the forced removal by terror of the UK from Northern England...until they decided that being in power and working through politics was a much more successful option.

Tigers can change their stripes if it helps them get what they want...

And like them or not, you HAVE to take Hamas seriously - they are the only functioning organization in the West Bank and Gaza - they create hosipitals, schools, and prevent street crime. Fatah died when Arafat died, maybe a bit before.

You want to defeat a Non-Governmental Organization like terrorists? Simple - make them part of the government so they can't hide...

Future Shock

 

[Moonbeam]

The UN could sponsor a mandatory coin toss between the Israelis and Palestinians with the side that loosed to be exterminated or alternatively, both sides come to a rapid agreement at co-existence. The coin toss could perhaps concentrate the mind and illuminate some common interests.

 

[DBL]

Originally posted by: Future Shock

Because the publically stated goal of the IRA was the forced removal by terror of the UK from Northern England...until they decided that being in power and working through politics was a much more successful option.

Tigers can change their stripes if it helps them get what they want...

And like them or not, you HAVE to take Hamas seriously - they are the only functioning organization in the West Bank and Gaza - they create hosipitals, schools, and prevent street crime. Fatah died when Arafat died, maybe a bit before.

You want to defeat a Non-Governmental Organization like terrorists? Simple - make them part of the government so they can't hide...

Future Shock

Has Hamas decided to denounce its stated goal? I have not heard that was the case. Besides, the IRA had very different goals compared to Hamas. The IRA did not exist to destroy England. That's the difference and it should not be overlooked.

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: Aimster
I don't think they want the destruction of Israel.

Why is it the stated goal of their charter?

Originally posted by: Aimster
The state of Israel is simply wrong in many people's eyes.

The Jews got control of a piece of land that is holy in three religions.

Is this fair to the other religions? No.

To bad, so sad, life isn't fair. Deal with it. 58 years is far to long for anyone to have claim to anything. Israel exists, it isn't going anywhere. They will figh to the last man and make no mistake if someone trys to wipe out Israel the US and probably other christian dominated nations will be there to defend them.

Originally posted by: Aimster
It should be controlled by the UN.

The UN couldn't manage themselves out of a box. Why don't you suggest that Inuit should manage it, they could do a better job than the UN.

Originally posted by: Aimster
If you want to argue this with me , explain to me how a religion of 14 million people has rights to a holy land over the Muslims and Christians. The reason it is not a problem with the Christians is because Christians do not live there today.

They have rights to it because they control it. Just as America has rights to america because we control it. Just like China has rights to Tibet, because they control it. Right, wrong, fair, unfair, none of that has anything whatsoever to do with any of it. You want Israel gone, pick up a gun and go try to get rid of them.

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: MegaWorks

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong
Just proves that, despite the illusion held by the Left that the Palestinians just want peace, the real truth is that they are commited to eternal war with Israel and DO NOT want it to end. Your darling Palestianians are really racist religious fanatics and hatemongering terrorists, the kind of people the Left would do everything to stop if they lived in the USA (and rightly so). They're half Pat Robertson/Jerry Falwell and half KKK/Neo-nazi skinhead, but since they're overseas and opposed to the Jews, everybody loves them. Its disgusting.

Go ahead and keep blaming the Jews for all the troubles of the ME, even though they're the ONLY democracy in that entire troublesome region, and the only party in this conflict that really desires peace.

And Iraq is what exactly? A theocracy? Your ignorance is amazing!

I just KNEW some idiot would say Iraq.

Even if we agreed it really is a democracy (and I think that has yet to be decided; will it remain one after we leave? Prove it), then alter my statement to "its one of only two democracies..." and it doesn't change my point at all.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: rahvin

Originally posted by: Aimster
I don't think they want the destruction of Israel.

Why is it the stated goal of their charter?

Originally posted by: Aimster
The state of Israel is simply wrong in many people's eyes.

The Jews got control of a piece of land that is holy in three religions.

Is this fair to the other religions? No.

To bad, so sad, life isn't fair. Deal with it. 58 years is far to long for anyone to have claim to anything. Israel exists, it isn't going anywhere. They will figh to the last man and make no mistake if someone trys to wipe out Israel the US and probably other christian dominated nations will be there to defend them.

Originally posted by: Aimster
It should be controlled by the UN.

The UN couldn't manage themselves out of a box. Why don't you suggest that Inuit should manage it, they could do a better job than the UN.

Originally posted by: Aimster
If you want to argue this with me , explain to me how a religion of 14 million people has rights to a holy land over the Muslims and Christians. The reason it is not a problem with the Christians is because Christians do not live there today.

They have rights to it because they control it. Just as America has rights to america because we control it. Just like China has rights to Tibet, because they control it. Right, wrong, fair, unfair, none of that has anything whatsoever to do with any of it. You want Israel gone, pick up a gun and go try to get rid of them.

I don't need to do anything. Israel is surrounded by millions of people who are only getting stronger not weaker.

I don't live there, I do not care.

You seem to want to protect Israel. You go there and fight for them when the Arabs attack them next. Ok?

I don't think many Americans would pick up a gun to fight for Israel.

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: Aimster
I don't need to do anything. Israel is surrounded by millions of people who are only getting stronger not weaker.

I don't live there, I do not care.

You seem to want to protect Israel. You go there and fight for them when the Arabs attack them next. Ok?

I don't think many Americans would pick up a gun to fight for Israel.

I don't care about Israel. And you are wrong about defending Israel. If it comes to it this country will institute a draft to protect them. Think about that, you could be drafted to defend them. If you doubt what I say you need to brush up on Revelations in the Bible.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: rahvin

Originally posted by: Aimster
I don't need to do anything. Israel is surrounded by millions of people who are only getting stronger not weaker.

I don't live there, I do not care.

You seem to want to protect Israel. You go there and fight for them when the Arabs attack them next. Ok?

I don't think many Americans would pick up a gun to fight for Israel.

I don't care about Israel. And you are wrong about defending Israel. If it comes to it this country will institute a draft to protect them. Think about that, you could be drafted to defend them. If you doubt what I say you need to brush up on Revelations in the Bible.

If you believe in religion.. Israel-Arab conflict will be the end of the world..

There will be a time when the Arabs will get powerful and will be able to destroy the small state of Israel. When this time comes.. Israel will use their nuclear weapons... and well..

Israel only has a few million people. 20% of them are not even Jewish.

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: Aimster
If you believe in religion.. Israel-Arab conflict will be the end of the world..

There will be a time when the Arabs will get powerful and will be able to destroy the small state of Israel. When this time comes.. Israel will use their nuclear weapons... and well..

Israel only has a few million people. 20% of them are not even Jewish.

Israel has 6million+ people.

I'm an athiest. A non-believer as your religion likes to call it, that according to your holy book should be immediatly killed. Anway, back to the subject. Israel nukeing the middle east would hardly be the end of the world. It would be the end of the middle east, but once the energy situation sorts itself out the rest of the world would move on along much better off.

The book of revelations calls the battle you are predicting to be armageddon. In Armageddon the rest of the surrounding nations gang up and attempt to destroy israel. According to the story a few nations will stand with Israel in defense, many people will die, IIRC more than 60% of both sides. In the end the aggressors against Israel will be defeated but not till the nation of Israel is physically destroyed. At the end of the battle Christ returns, dips his robe in the blood of the dead and the proceeds westward destroying all the wicked on the planet.

In a conflict, America will stand with Israel, I have no doubt there will be other Christian nations that believe the battle is Armageddon and will stand with them as well. The religious right in this country have extremely strong support for Israel for this very reason. If they are on the wrong side in the battle of Armageddon many believe they won't be saved.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: BDawg
CNN just said the Dubya says he won't work with them. I'm not sure why. He's big on democratically elected leaders and they were just elected democratically.

Were his lips moving? He's lying. Otherwise CNN may have misreported. We support draconian police states 99% of the time.

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: Aimster
I don't think they want the destruction of Israel.

The state of Israel is simply wrong in many people's eyes.

The Jews got control of a piece of land that is holy in three religions.

Is this fair to the other religions? No.

It should be controlled by the UN.

If you want to argue this with me , explain to me how a religion of 14 million people has rights to a holy land over the Muslims and Christians. The reason it is not a problem with the Christians is because Christians do not live there today.

Muslims and/or Arabs have absolutely no historic "right" to either Jerusalem or Palestine. The Jews conquered it from the Canaanites, and the Philistines tried to steal it from the Jews but failed. The Romans finally took it, from which it passed to the Byzantine Empire, which became officially Christian in the 4th century AD. The Arabs later took it from the Byzantines. When the Muslims again attacked the Byzantines, the 1st Crusade was launched in response, retaking Jerusalem and founding the Crusader States, which lasted until 1291. The Muslims that originally took it and then retook it from the Crusaders were Arabs and Turks, neither of which HAD EVER LIVED THERE previously. However, during the entire period from its conquest by Rome until Israel's refounding in 1948, Jews HAVE lived there...which makes the Palestinians the interlopers and "occupiers", not the Jews (or just like the Jews, if you prefer).

As you can see, both the Jews AND "Palestinians" conquered it by force of arms from other peoples, so if we're going to skim history looking for such a right, the Jews' claim is by far the stronger since its several thousand years older (as is the Christian "claim") than that of the Muslims, and they've lived there the entire time, which the Muslims/Arabs HAVE NOT. So of the religions you mention, Islam has the weakest and shortest claim to it of the 3. Also, it was INDISPUTABLY "holy" to the Jewish religion thousands of years before either of the other two even existed...so if "religion" is to be the basis of a territorial settlement (which IMO is just ridiculous in the 21st century), the Jews win hands down.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: rahvin

Originally posted by: Aimster
If you believe in religion.. Israel-Arab conflict will be the end of the world..

There will be a time when the Arabs will get powerful and will be able to destroy the small state of Israel. When this time comes.. Israel will use their nuclear weapons... and well..

Israel only has a few million people. 20% of them are not even Jewish.

Israel has 6million+ people.

I'm an athiest. A non-believer as your religion likes to call it, that according to your holy book should be immediatly killed. Anway, back to the subject. Israel nukeing the middle east would hardly be the end of the world. It would be the end of the middle east, but once the energy situation sorts itself out the rest of the world would move on along much better off.

The book of revelations calls the battle you are predicting to be armageddon. In Armageddon the rest of the surrounding nations gang up and attempt to destroy israel. According to the story a few nations will stand with Israel in defense, many people will die, IIRC more than 60% of both sides. In the end the aggressors against Israel will be defeated but not till the nation of Israel is physically destroyed. At the end of the battle Christ returns, dips his robe in the blood of the dead and the proceeds westward destroying all the wicked on the planet.

In a conflict, America will stand with Israel, I have no doubt there will be other Christian nations that believe the battle is Armageddon and will stand with them as well. The religious right in this country have extremely strong support for Israel for this very reason. If they are on the wrong side in the battle of Armageddon many believe they won't be saved.

My religion calls you a non-believer?

Amazing.

What is my holy book?