fatal limo crash - opinions

[SunnyD]

Doesn't really matter anyway. DWI fatalities, he'll be on probation. Involuntary manslaughter at best.

 

[master_shake_]

5 families eternally affected, DUI charge... I ain't feeling sorry for him because he has to live with it...

your hate is misplaced.

the limo driver Carlos F. Pino is at fault here.

 

[waggy]

limo driver is 100% at fault. the guy in the truck should not be charged in the deaths. I have no trouble with fleeing though. fuck him on that..

 

[DrunkenSano]

Limo driver is definitely at fault and should be the person to blame for the deaths, so four charges of manslaughter right there as well as the major traffic violations involved. However, the pick up driver should also be charged with leaving the scene of an accident and driving while intoxicated.

 

[NesuD]

There are conflicting reports that he was tested under the limit but the article says:



If you're charged with DUI, I'm just not understanding how he isn't implicated in the deaths also. Anticipation, perception, and reaction have to be affected and the point of impact by doing nothing (judging from how the center of his hood hit square in the middle of the limo) seems he should be accountable at some level.

I'm not understanding why it is automatically assumed that if your blood alcohol level is above a certain point that you are automatically responsible for every stupid thing that other drivers do. This is a perfect case for why blood alcohol level isn't always a factor. Has anyone here ever been in an accident at 55 mph in which you had 2.5 seconds to react? I have and I will tell you just applying the brakes before impact is doing good. Safely steering out of danger at 55 while applying brakes in 2.5 seconds is not possible for someone who is stone sober. The Grand Jury was correct in determining that the blood alcohol level of the pickup driver had no bearing on the cause of the accident.

 

[Gunbuster]

Do limos have to meet side impact regulations like "normal" cars that have a turbo reinforced belt-line that is creeping ever closer to chin level? The 6 inch tall windows we'll have by 2020 will be great!

 

[lupi]

Looks clearly limo driver fault.

Since almost no one practices for that type of simulation while driving, it's near impossible for holding the other driver to any type of 'what other actions he should have taken' type of standard.

 

[zinfamous]

Those stupid U-Turns are the #1 traffic maneuver in NorCal, and I know I've ranted about it several times in various threads here.

sadly, this doesn't surprise me. I think this is 100% the fault of the limo driver, especially considering that in Napa or Sonoma, you have to assume that most of the drivers are going to be a bit off.

That being said, I find it hard to dismiss the DWI in this case. That is always going to be an issue and if you start playing the situational game of when impairment matters based on specific instances, you give up the power that such charges are meant to hold.

It can't always be fair in every case, but laws need to meet a base criteria where we understand that certain rules and regulations trump others.

 

[DrPizza]

I simply don't agree nor would I ever agree as a juror. Guy already has to live with deaths on his hands. Don't wreck his family over for it too. We call them accidents for a reason. Guy was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Car crashes are called "accidents," but I don't believe most are accidental. I prefer to think of "accident" as a sort of thing where nobody is responsible out of some form of negligence - an incident that's unavoidable, even with some foresight. I don't think that making a horrible error in judgment is purely an accident. E.g., a deer jumping up over a bank from where it's out of sight, immediately into the path of a vehicle is an accident. But go off the road in a snow storm? That's driving too fast for road conditions. The vast majority of times that there is a car crash, one or more parties are responsible.

In this case, it seems that clearly the limo driver is the primary party who caused the crash. While alcohol may have played some role, the role may or may not be trivial - too difficult to say which it is without something like a field sobriety test. While the legal limit is .08, .08 leaves some people in a stupor, while except for the breath, you may not even be able to detect a difference in the reaction time or judgment for someone else. Seems this is part of the reason for a field sobriety test prior to a breathalyzer.

 

[vi edit]

Car crashes are called "accidents," but I don't believe most are accidental. I prefer to think of "accident" as a sort of thing where nobody is responsible out of some form of negligence - an incident that's unavoidable, even with some foresight. I don't think that making a horrible error in judgment is purely an accident. E.g., a deer jumping up over a bank from where it's out of sight, immediately into the path of a vehicle is an accident. But go off the road in a snow storm? That's driving too fast for road conditions. The vast majority of times that there is a car crash, one or more parties are responsible.

I think I was pretty clear when I said the limo driver was the one at fault here.

By definition and accident is: an unfortunate event resulting especially from carelessness or ignorance

The limo driver was careless. I still stand behind the numbers as presented that the truck driver was in an unfortunate spot and had that person been sober this would have been an entirely different discussion even if the outcome would have been the same.

 

[waffleironhead]

From the article:
“A perfectly sober Steven Romeo could not avoid this crash. An intoxicated Steven Romeo could not avoid this crash. It was simply unavoidable from Romeo’s perspective,” Spota said. “Romeo can be held criminally responsible for driving while intoxicated but he cannot be held criminally responsible for the crash.”

Limo driver at fault for the deaths.

 

[skyking]

"I'll turn, that guy will just have to slow down unless he's drunk". The DWI guy should be charged with DWI and fleeing. The fatalities and accident itself should be on the limo driver. It really is that simple in my book.

 

[thesmokingman]

Spota said the Jeep Liberty “completely blocked the limo driver’s view of the oncoming traffic in the main travel lanes.” And despite the fact that the main westbound travel lanes were not visible, the DA said Pino failed to take any precaution to make sure he could safely enter the westbound travel lanes and he continued to make the U-turn.
“A perfectly sober Steven Romeo could not avoid this crash. An intoxicated Steven Romeo could not avoid this crash. It was simply unavoidable from Romeo’s perspective,” Spota said. “Romeo can be held criminally responsible for driving while intoxicated but he cannot be held criminally responsible for the crash.”

I think on face value we would all naturally blame the drunkard, but this point above is concerning. We have it all happen to us anytime we drive, other cars block our viewpoint.

The limo driver had precious cargo onboard and he weighed the pros and cons, and considered his ease to drive above the possibility of something bad happening to those ladies. W t F?? He could have burnt another couple minutes to let the Jeep complete it's left turn but no...


When I drive with my kids in tow, I don't leave it up to chance.

 

[skull]

How do we know the pick up truck driver wasn't speeding? I feel like that would play a bigger role than reaction time with low level intoxication.

 

[Ns1]

uh, why are we saying the driver should be charged with DWI again? Seems to me that 0 fault and 0 charges should be assigned to the pickup driver.

SOUTHOLD, N.Y. -- The blood alcohol content of the pickup driver charged in the crash that killed four limousine passengers over the weekend on Long Island was below the legal threshold for DWI, officials said.

Steve Romeo's level was .066, Suffolk County District Attorney Tom Spota said at a news conference Friday morning.

 

[thesmokingman]

How do we know the pick up truck driver wasn't speeding? I feel like that would play a bigger role than reaction time with low level intoxication.

How do you know he was? It doesn't trump the limo driver blindly turning into a lane that he couldn't actually see clearly.

 

[skyking]

If he tested above the limit and was driving, it's a done deal.

 

[skull]

How do you know he was? It doesn't trump the limo driver blindly turning into a lane that he couldn't actually see clearly.

I don't I'm just saying everyone demonetises dwi but speeders not so much. So we do know the limo driver couldn't see on coming traffic clearly? I'd say its his fault 100% then. If the limo driver could see on coming traffic and the pick up guy was doing 100mph and the limo driver didn't see him I say it was the speeders fault.

 

[sandorski]

If the Limo driver couldn't see the Truck, the Truck probably couldn't see the Limo either. Which would increase the delayed reaction. The Truck driver would be paying attention to the vehicle in front of the Limo and likely completely unaware of the presence of the Limo.

 

[thesmokingman]

I don't I'm just saying everyone demonetises dwi but speeders not so much. So we do know the limo driver couldn't see on coming traffic clearly? I'd say its his fault 100% then. If the limo driver could see on coming traffic and the pick up guy was doing 100mph and the limo driver didn't see him I say it was the speeders fault.

If he was speeding they would have dealt with him for that, since that's their job?

 

[lupi]

I think on face value we would all naturally blame the drunkard, but this point above is concerning. We have it all happen to us anytime we drive, other cars block our viewpoint.

The limo driver had precious cargo onboard and he weighed the pros and cons, and considered his ease to drive above the possibility of something bad happening to those ladies. W t F?? He could have burnt another couple minutes to let the Jeep complete it's left turn but no...


When I drive with my kids in tow, I don't leave it up to chance.

From what I remember reading, driving laws are pretty clear in instances like that. You nudge forward until you can establish a clear field of view before proceeding or wait until the moving obstruction has passed. Just pulling out into the lane is never an option.

 

[LTC8K6]

The DA is saying that the pickup driver was not at fault, and not legally drunk either. That seems pretty strong to me. Seems like that ends the case.

Why are we discussing anything? The limo driver clearly bears total responsibility.

Even with a drunk pickup driver, the limo driver would bear total responsibility, imo.

But we don't have that. We just have an illegal U-turn.

 

[notposting]

Can't get the animation to play for some reason, but if I was on a jury of some sort, I would probably convict the truck driver of some sort of charges (manslaughter?).

Sure, drunk/buzzed/sober couldn't have slammed on the brakes in that time.

But:

Would have seen 8 beelion feet of limo ass behind some Jeep getting ready to pull out in front.

As others have mentioned, braking wouldn't cure everything, but steering coherently to miss, or more likely, to minimize damage, could have helped.

The defense focus is obviously the split second of braking and throwing as much blame as they can elsewhere. If the guy had been stone sober and maybe peeking at his phone, laughing his butt off at something on the radio, headbanging to metal, any of a million other things, no charges. But FFS - you get in your vehicle with a good dose of alcohol in you nowadays, and whether or not you are "at fault", guess what, you are sooooooo gonna be "at fault".


(Note: the limo driver is still drawn & quartered under my scenario, just that trial is separate.)

 

[Ns1]

He didn't have a good dose of alcohol in him. He was under the legal limit.

 

[Fingolfin269]

I do wonder if you changed this specific scenario and made it 'the driver was texting' or 'the driver was finding his next Spotify tune' does it change the rage factor?

To be honest the texter/cell phone skimmer while driving frightens me more than your average 'drunk' driver now. Basically because they are always on the road and in greater frequency throughout the entire day.