Father 'murdered' by son, aged 8

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: tfcmasta97

lol Americans.

"Why have statistics if you're only going to 'prove' things.
Atleast compared to shitholes, we're not THAT shitty"

So what standard are you using to determine shit-ness?

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

What do you bet they have even more mental illness than we do?

I completely agree, Russia has about 4x higher murders per capita. But if other people are going to use stats from other countries, then so will I.

Are you lowering the standard, and suggest that we should compare the US vs. other despot countries such as Russia, Iran, and North Korea?

[add]

A once great nation that the world looked upon to base their ideal from, and now the best that it can mustered up is that it is still is better than some of the worst despot countries in the world.

Hey, you gotta take um where you can get um, no?

 

[Baked]

Originally posted by: TallBill

lol, False... The murder rate in Russia and Ukraine is higher then the US and all guns are banned. Get rid of the murderers and we'll have less murders.

We can start by putting money in the education system rather than the prison system. Did you know the US is the only country in the world where the funding for the prison system is higher than the funding for education system? That's right, we have the most fucked up justice system where we play catch and release w/ the parole system. Here's a thought, execute all the murderers on death row and release all the druggies and you wouldn't need so much money funding the prison system.

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: tfcmasta97

lol Americans.

"Why have statistics if you're only going to 'prove' things.
Atleast compared to shitholes, we're not THAT shitty"

So what standard are you using to determine shit-ness?

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

What do you bet they have even more mental illness than we do?

I completely agree, Russia has about 4x higher murders per capita. But if other people are going to use stats from other countries, then so will I.

Are you lowering the standard, and suggest that we should compare the US vs. other despot countries such as Russia, Iran, and North Korea?

Switzerland has one of the highest gun ownership rates in the world, but also one of the lowest firearm related crime rates in the world.

Every male in the nation is issued a rifle at the age 20. A machine gun no less.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: tfcmasta97

lol Americans.

"Why have statistics if you're only going to 'prove' things.
Atleast compared to shitholes, we're not THAT shitty"

So what standard are you using to determine shit-ness?

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

What do you bet they have even more mental illness than we do?

I completely agree, Russia has about 4x higher murders per capita. But if other people are going to use stats from other countries, then so will I.

Are you lowering the standard, and suggest that we should compare the US vs. other despot countries such as Russia, Iran, and North Korea?

Switzerland has one of the highest gun ownership rates in the world, but also one of the lowest firearm related crime rates in the world.

Every male in the nation is issued a rifle at the age 20. A machine gun no less.

We'd do that too if we lived next to the Germans.

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

We'd do that too if we lived next to the Germans.

Yeah, because Switzerland had it so bad in WW2.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

For an 8 year old to shoot and kill two adults obviously gun control was working.

The question we should be asking is why???

Not much different than the kid that shot and killed himself by mostake at the Boston Gun range.

You have to blame the parent even if the parent is killed.

I have a feeling this wasn't a mistake, or they wouldn't have charged him with murder?

Looks like he killed them in 2 different places. It might be a mistake if it happened once, but twice?

"They found one victim just outside the front door and the other dead in an upstairs room, he added. "


Some people aren't fit to live in society. Give him the potassium chloride.

 

[evident]

the fact that the dude had to consult a priest about whether his kid should have a gun means he shouldn't have given his kid a fucking gun. dumbass

 

[BarneyFife]

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa


"The level of gun ownership world-wide is directly related to murder and suicide rates and specifically to the level of death by gunfire.".

......................... Homicide .... Suicide ..... Other (inc Accident)

USA (2001)............... 3.98 ........ 5.92 ........ 0.36
Italy (1997)............. 0.81 ........ 1.10 ........ 0.07
Switzerland (1998)....... 0.50 ........ 5.80 ........ 0.10
Canada (2002)............ 0.40 ........ 2.00 ........ 0.04
Finland (2003)........... 0.35 ........ 4.45 ........ 0.10
Australia (2001)......... 0.24 ........ 1.34 ........ 0.10
France (2001)............ 0.21 ........ 3.40 ........ 0.49
England/Wales (2002)..... 0.15 ........ 0.20 ........ 0.03
Scotland (2002).......... 0.06 ........ 0.20 ........ 0.02
Japan (2002)............. 0.02 ........ 0.04 ........ 0

lol, False... The murder rate in Russia and Ukraine is higher then the US and all guns are banned. Get rid of the murderers and we'll have less murders.

Wow. Thanks for comparing the US to shitholes. Maybe we should compare our health care system to that of Ghana.

 

[Newfie]

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa

Originally posted by: fleshconsumed

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa
Father 'murdered' by son, aged 8

An eight-year-old boy has been charged with the murder of his father and another man in the US state of Arizona.

The detail isn't clear in the article, but how the hell did an 8 year old got a hold of a loaded rifle?

It is obviously that gun control isn't working.

So you want the government to protect people from themselves? The man should have had his gun secured better, this is more darwin at work than anything else.

Can't say it much better than this.

"The level of gun ownership world-wide is directly related to murder and suicide rates and specifically to the level of death by gunfire.".

......................... Homicide .... Suicide ..... Other (inc Accident)

USA (2001)............... 3.98 ........ 5.92 ........ 0.36
Italy (1997)............. 0.81 ........ 1.10 ........ 0.07
Switzerland (1998)....... 0.50 ........ 5.80 ........ 0.10
Canada (2002)............ 0.40 ........ 2.00 ........ 0.04
Finland (2003)........... 0.35 ........ 4.45 ........ 0.10
Australia (2001)......... 0.24 ........ 1.34 ........ 0.10
France (2001)............ 0.21 ........ 3.40 ........ 0.49
England/Wales (2002)..... 0.15 ........ 0.20 ........ 0.03
Scotland (2002).......... 0.06 ........ 0.20 ........ 0.02
Japan (2002)............. 0.02 ........ 0.04 ........ 0

Correlation does not prove causation.

I'm not too fond of guns myself, but a correlation can only show a relationship, there is no cause and effect statement here.

Gun ownership could cause violent tendencies, or violent tendencies could cause gun ownership (This is excluding any external influences).

 

[microbial]

Obviously we need more condoms.

 

[Thump553]

I'm surprised the kid was charged with murder. Here in CT you have to be at least 14 to be charged with murder, and the youngest age a very brief search turns up is 10 in Vermont and Indiana.

That's not to say this kid (if guilty) wouldn't be punished here-he would be found deliquent and almost certainly be retained in custody until age 18.

I just can't imagine an eight year old being convicted of murder-wouldn't they have to send him to adult prison?

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

We'd do that too if we lived next to the Germans.

Yeah, because Switzerland had it so bad in WW2.

Guess we know why.

 

[nutxo]

Originally posted by: Thump553
I'm surprised the kid was charged with murder. Here in CT you have to be at least 14 to be charged with murder, and the youngest age a very brief search turns up is 10 in Vermont and Indiana.

That's not to say this kid (if guilty) wouldn't be punished here-he would be found deliquent and almost certainly be retained in custody until age 18.

I just can't imagine an eight year old being convicted of murder-wouldn't they have to send him to adult prison?

There are prisons for children. Youths spend the time till they are 18 in places like California Youth Authority then be transferred to adult facilities ( In CA anyways) .

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

The 8yo was probably abused even though "they" say there is no record.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmpzaM00y8I&NR=1

 

[ElFenix]

one glance at a topographical map will tell you why switzerland's neutrality has been respected while belgium's has not.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa

Originally posted by: fleshconsumed

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa
Father 'murdered' by son, aged 8

An eight-year-old boy has been charged with the murder of his father and another man in the US state of Arizona.

The detail isn't clear in the article, but how the hell did an 8 year old got a hold of a loaded rifle?

It is obviously that gun control isn't working.

So you want the government to protect people from themselves? The man should have had his gun secured better, this is more darwin at work than anything else.

Can't say it much better than this.

"The level of gun ownership world-wide is directly related to murder and suicide rates and specifically to the level of death by gunfire.".

......................... Homicide .... Suicide ..... Other (inc Accident)

USA (2001)............... 3.98 ........ 5.92 ........ 0.36
Italy (1997)............. 0.81 ........ 1.10 ........ 0.07
Switzerland (1998)....... 0.50 ........ 5.80 ........ 0.10
Canada (2002)............ 0.40 ........ 2.00 ........ 0.04
Finland (2003)........... 0.35 ........ 4.45 ........ 0.10
Australia (2001)......... 0.24 ........ 1.34 ........ 0.10
France (2001)............ 0.21 ........ 3.40 ........ 0.49
England/Wales (2002)..... 0.15 ........ 0.20 ........ 0.03
Scotland (2002).......... 0.06 ........ 0.20 ........ 0.02
Japan (2002)............. 0.02 ........ 0.04 ........ 0

That study specifies homicide/suicide by firearm, not total homicide/suicide. Obviously if there are more guns available more people will use them, but not necessarily more people will do the crime/suicide. For instance Japan has more attempted and successful suicides than the US, just not as many by guns.

In studies that account for these and other factors there is very low correlation. They still fail to account for positive uses of guns, not to mention the core issue of rights. If the National Academy of Sciences was unable to draw ANY positive conclusions from gun control it's logical to just call it a non-starter.

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
one glance at a topographical map will tell you why switzerland's neutrality has been respected while belgium's has not.

skiers with guns = serious business.

 

[AstroManLuca]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa

Originally posted by: fleshconsumed

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa
Father 'murdered' by son, aged 8

An eight-year-old boy has been charged with the murder of his father and another man in the US state of Arizona.

The detail isn't clear in the article, but how the hell did an 8 year old got a hold of a loaded rifle?

It is obviously that gun control isn't working.

So you want the government to protect people from themselves? The man should have had his gun secured better, this is more darwin at work than anything else.

Can't say it much better than this.

"The level of gun ownership world-wide is directly related to murder and suicide rates and specifically to the level of death by gunfire.".

......................... Homicide .... Suicide ..... Other (inc Accident)

USA (2001)............... 3.98 ........ 5.92 ........ 0.36
Italy (1997)............. 0.81 ........ 1.10 ........ 0.07
Switzerland (1998)....... 0.50 ........ 5.80 ........ 0.10
Canada (2002)............ 0.40 ........ 2.00 ........ 0.04
Finland (2003)........... 0.35 ........ 4.45 ........ 0.10
Australia (2001)......... 0.24 ........ 1.34 ........ 0.10
France (2001)............ 0.21 ........ 3.40 ........ 0.49
England/Wales (2002)..... 0.15 ........ 0.20 ........ 0.03
Scotland (2002).......... 0.06 ........ 0.20 ........ 0.02
Japan (2002)............. 0.02 ........ 0.04 ........ 0

That study specifies homicide/suicide by firearm, not total homicide/suicide. Obviously if there are more guns available more people will use them, but not necessarily more people will do the crime/suicide. For instance Japan has more attempted and successful suicides than the US, just not as many by guns.

In studies that account for these and other factors there is very low correlation. They still fail to account for positive uses of guns, not to mention the core issue of rights. If the National Academy of Sciences was unable to draw ANY positive conclusions from gun control it's logical to just call it a non-starter.

+ fucking +

Gun control activists always use the statistic of gun-related deaths when arguing their case. Why not use statistics for overall deaths? After all, Japan has a pretty high suicide rate. Not by guns, of course, since almost no one in Japan owns a gun. But if someone's going to off themselves, they'll find a way.

Similarly, if someone is going to commit a robbery or a murder, they're going to use what they have available. In the U.S., that means they'll use a gun. In the U.K., they'll use a knife, broken bottle, or whatever else is available.

It is a sad fact of human nature that people feel the need to use violence against others. Guns make violence simpler and easier to commit, but their availability doesn't make people more likely to become violent.

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
one glance at a topographical map will tell you why switzerland's neutrality has been respected while belgium's has not.

Wow! It takes an off topic mod to get that off topic... :laugh:

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca

Gun control activists always use the statistic of gun-related deaths when arguing their case. Why not use statistics for overall deaths?

Watch out... Here comes the "D" word... DUH!!!

Because this case is about gun related deaths. The kid didn't kill anyone with his overalls. :roll:

 

[ModerateRepZero]

After all, Japan has a pretty high suicide rate. Not by guns, of course, since almost no one in Japan owns a gun. But if someone's going to off themselves, they'll find a way.

Suicide is a violent death, but the difference is that the person punishes *themself*. And anyway, Japan isn't a good example.....I just have to bring up the hikikomori (Japanese hermits who spend their days closeted in a room, neither employed nor in school. Mostly male and teenagers/young men iirc) to make a point about the role of culture.

For more on the hikikomori, read the book "Shutting out the Sun" by Michael Zielenziger

 

[AstroManLuca]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca

Gun control activists always use the statistic of gun-related deaths when arguing their case. Why not use statistics for overall deaths?

Watch out... Here comes the "D" word... DUH!!!

Because this case is about gun related deaths. The kid didn't kill anyone with his overalls. :roll:

It's still not a fair comparison if you want to argue that more guns = more crime. We know that the U.S. has more guns per capita than almost any other country. Does it have more crime? Well, yes, but the numbers aren't as dramatically higher compared to the U.K. as the number of guns in the U.S. vs. the U.K.

Here's some data. In the U.S., there are 90 guns per 100 people. In the U.K., there are only 5.6 per 100 people. So we have 16x as many guns as they do. Do we have 16x as much crime? No. The U.S. has 5.7 homicides per 100,000 people vs. 2.0 in the U.K., so about three times as many murders per 100,000 people. That's certainly not a good thing, and it may owe partially to the large number of guns around, but clearly there are people in the U.K. committing murders without guns.

What I'm saying is that non-gun-related murders will at least partially make up for the lack of gun-related murders in countries where gun ownership is highly restricted. If 90% of the guns in the U.S. were to just vanish into thin air tomorrow, would murder rates go down? Certainly. But not by 90% or even close to that.

 

[Triumph]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca

Gun control activists always use the statistic of gun-related deaths when arguing their case. Why not use statistics for overall deaths?

Watch out... Here comes the "D" word... DUH!!!

Because this case is about gun related deaths. The kid didn't kill anyone with his overalls. :roll:

My uncle was killed by overalls. Please have some respect. We need an overall reworking of overall laws.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca

Gun control activists always use the statistic of gun-related deaths when arguing their case. Why not use statistics for overall deaths?

Watch out... Here comes the "D" word... DUH!!!

Because this case is about gun related deaths. The kid didn't kill anyone with his overalls. :roll:

Think a little deeper there Harv.

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

That study specifies homicide/suicide by firearm, not total homicide/suicide. Obviously if there are more guns available more people will use them, but not necessarily more people will do the crime/suicide. For instance Japan has more attempted and successful suicides than the US, just not as many by guns.

In studies that account for these and other factors there is very low correlation. They still fail to account for positive uses of guns, not to mention the core issue of rights. If the National Academy of Sciences was unable to draw ANY positive conclusions from gun control it's logical to just call it a non-starter.

I know you can do it if you just try.

 

[LumbergTech]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca

Gun control activists always use the statistic of gun-related deaths when arguing their case. Why not use statistics for overall deaths?

Watch out... Here comes the "D" word... DUH!!!

Because this case is about gun related deaths. The kid didn't kill anyone with his overalls. :roll:

Think a little deeper there Harv.

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

That study specifies homicide/suicide by firearm, not total homicide/suicide. Obviously if there are more guns available more people will use them, but not necessarily more people will do the crime/suicide. For instance Japan has more attempted and successful suicides than the US, just not as many by guns.

In studies that account for these and other factors there is very low correlation. They still fail to account for positive uses of guns, not to mention the core issue of rights. If the National Academy of Sciences was unable to draw ANY positive conclusions from gun control it's logical to just call it a non-starter.

I know you can do it if you just try.

honestly i dont think that explains away what he wants it to....