FBI Patriot Act probes underreported, audit shows

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
A few points: 1.) The Bush Administration objected to the audit (hmmmmm... wonder why?), 2.) the audit found the number of national security letters used were underreported by 20% ... the FBI shrugged and claimed "...they lost track." 3.) Finally we see that the FBI has delivered a total of 9,254 national security letters seeking email, phone or financial information on 3,501 U.S. citizens, and how many arrests have their been? None, that I'm aware of.

What an incredible violation of our citizen's civil rights for nothing.

FBI Patriot Act probes underreported, audit shows

? Poor bookkeeping, records management to blame, one official says
? FBI reported checking on phone, e-mail records of 3,501 people over two years
? FBI said it made 9,254 record requests, but audit shows figure is 20 percent more
? Unlike subpoenas, targets of national security letters not notified


WASHINGTON (AP) -- The FBI underreported its use of the USA Patriot Act to force businesses to turn over customer information in suspected terrorism cases, according to a Justice Department audit.

One government official familiar with the report said shoddy bookkeeping and records management led to the problems. The FBI agents appeared to be overwhelmed by the volume of demands for information over a two-year period, the official said.

"They lost track," said the official who like others interviewed late Thursday spoke on condition of anonymity because the report was not being released until Friday.

The FBI in 2005 reported to Congress that its agents had delivered a total of 9,254 national security letters seeking e-mail, telephone or financial information on 3,501 U.S. citizens and legal residents over the previous two years.

Justice Department Inspector General Glenn A. Fine's report says that number was underreported by 20 percent, according to the officials.

Fine conducted the audit as required by Congress and over the objections of the Bush administration.

It was unclear late Thursday whether the omissions could be considered a criminal offense. One government official who read the report said it concluded the problems appeared to be unintentional and that FBI agents would probably face administrative sanctions instead of criminal charges.

The FBI has taken steps to correct some of the problems, the official said.

The Justice Department began notifying lawmakers of the audit's damning contents late Thursday. Spokesmen at the Justice Department and FBI declined to comment on the findings.

Sen. Charles Schumer, a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee that oversees the FBI, called the reported findings "a profoundly disturbing breach of public trust."

"Somebody has a lot of explaining to do," said Schumer, D-New York.

Fine's audit also says the FBI failed to send follow-up subpoenas to telecommunications companies that were told to expect them, the officials said.

Those cases involved so-called exigent letters to alert the companies that subpoenas would be issued shortly to gather more information, the officials said. But in many examples, the subpoenas were never sent, the officials said.

The FBI has since caught up with those omissions, either with national security letters or subpoenas, one official said.

National security letters have been the subject of legal battles in two federal courts because recipients were barred from telling anyone about them.

The American Civil Liberties Union sued the Bush administration over what the ACLU described as the security letter's gag on free speech.

A federal appeals judge in New York warned in May that government's ability to force companies to turn over information about its customers and keep quiet about it was probably unconstitutional.

CNN.com
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Sadly other Countries are going down the same dark path as the U.S.:

3-8-2007Sweden plan would monitor all citizen communications

STOCKHOLM, Sweden - Sweden's government presented a contentious plan Thursday to allow a defense intelligence agency to monitor ? without a court order ? e-mail traffic and phone calls crossing the nation's borders.

They're going from fishing with a hook to fishing with a net," said Par Strom, a spokesman for The New Welfare Foundation, a civil liberties think tank. "We are crossing a very fundamental border."

"We're going to evaluate whether there are enough guarantees to safeguard people's integrity," said Thomas Bodstrom, justice minister in the previous Social Democratic government. "The other issue is, do we want to change society so that the military gets a completely new role when it comes to fighting crime?"
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
This will persist as long as people believe that the government can keep them safe. Unfortunately, it seems that it will be a very, very long time until people realize that the government cannot keep them safe from the government.
 

imported_Shivetya

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2005
2,978
1
0
Originally posted by: palehorse74
does "underreported"="abused"?

when its a Republican adminstration. Just wait till we someone who isn't as benign as Bush is in office. We have already seen the IRS used to go after opponents, the patriot act opens all new doors for politicians to bully people.


Cower in fear ya'll. The Federal government is slowly assuming all the rights it can, its been what, 40 years since the Constitution meant anything? Got to love a system which rules in its favor nearly all the time.
 

Balt

Lifer
Mar 12, 2000
12,674
482
126
Originally posted by: palehorse74
does "underreported"="abused"?

Yes. http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070309/pl_nm/fbi_patriotact_errors_dc_1

In their sampling of 293 letters, investigators found that 22 errors were possible violations of department rules and some were potential violations of law, the Post reported, citing officials with access to the audit.

The FBI identified 26 potential violations in other cases in the audit, which was limited to 77 case files in four FBI field offices, the Post said. It said officials believe the 48 known problems may be the tip of the iceberg in a "shoddy" internal oversight system, but that the problems were not deliberate.

In at least two cases cited by the newspaper, the investigators found that the FBI obtained full credit reports whereas the security letters could only be used to obtain summary information.

In other cases, telephone companies, banks or Internet providers responded with detailed personal information about customers that the letters do not permit to be released, the article said.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: Shivetya
Originally posted by: palehorse74
does "underreported"="abused"?

when its a Republican adminstration. Just wait till we someone who isn't as benign as Bush is in office. We have already seen the IRS used to go after opponents, the patriot act opens all new doors for politicians to bully people.


Cower in fear ya'll. The Federal government is slowly assuming all the rights it can, its been what, 40 years since the Constitution meant anything? Got to love a system which rules in its favor nearly all the time.

Interesting that you claim bush is "benign" and yet he and his Administration have gone on a rampage against civil rights during his two terms, pushing legislation and taking actions that verge on being illegal (and probably are) and quite possibly unconstitutional. It's a testament to your incredible bias that you can't lay the blame squarely where it belongs.

No big surprise there. You rail on and on with your apocalyptic prognostications of the future, but you can't point the finger at Bush for initiating the very things you fear. You are the very definition of "partisan hack." Nicely played. :thumbsdown:
 

BMW540I6speed

Golden Member
Aug 26, 2005
1,055
0
0
"Signing statements", in and of themselves, have no meaning and no significance except that they make clear that Bush believes he has the right to ignore certain laws. They are significant not because they grant any powers to the President or even constitutes illegal acts themselves, but becasue they are clear expressions of the President's belief in his power to ignore the law.

And this is a case where the significance of the signing statement is clear - the President decreed his power to ignore certain legal requirements, and now the FBI has ignored those very requirements.

Bush wrote:

''The executive branch shall construe the provisions...that call for furnishing information to entities outside the executive branch in a manner consistent with the president's constitutional authority to supervise the unitary executive branch and to withhold information"

What is actually in the Constitution (Article 2, Section 3): "...he (the President) shall take care that the laws be faithfully executed."

Guess it all depends on the meaning of "take care" and "faithfully."

 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,914
2,359
126
I certainly hope this will be a can of worms opened up that will somehow lead to a repeal of the Patriot Act. It's absolutely frightning the impact on ordinary citizens.
 

BMW540I6speed

Golden Member
Aug 26, 2005
1,055
0
0
DealMonkey said:
No big surprise there. You rail on and on with your apocalyptic prognostications of the future, but you can't point the finger at Bush for initiating the very things you fear. You are the very definition of "partisan hack." Nicely played.

Heh...Yes, I would venture that we will be hearing the "few bad apples" argument that is inevitably to come. That is, I expect to hear a similar response to this as we did in response to the offenses at Abu Ghraib - that irrespective of the fact that the administration has entirely composed an environment in which just such offenses can occur and flourish, it is only an instance of a handful of people behaving badly.

However, the difference between those two situations is not imperceptible. While it is theoretically (though incredulously) arguable that there may not have been a directly causal relationship between the context prior to Abu Ghraib and the offenses thereafter committed, the President's signing statement specifcially on NSL's amounted to a neon sign, an arrow boldly declaring 'OPEN FOR BUSINESS'. The President opened the door, and the FBI merely walked through it.

 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,052
30
86
Originally posted by: palehorse74
does "underreported"="abused"?
How can it mean anything else? They're legally obligated to report FBI phone probes under the Patriot Act, regardless of whether those actions were justifiable. In a best case scenario for the administration, if they did nothing wrong, but they failed to file the required reports, they've left the door wide open to suspicion that the rights of some American citizenz' have been abused.

At a minimum, the failure to report their probes, itself, IS wrong, and it IS an abuse.

Unfortunatly, this administration's own history is rife with abuse of the entire legal system, from illegal wiretaps and spying on Americans to illegal detentions, renditions, imprisonment and torture overseas. They've already done so much to shred the Constitutional rights of every American citizen that, until proven otherwise, the lack of sufficient reporting and oversight must be taken as a strong indicator that that they continue to do so. :thumbsdown: :| :thumbsdown:
And they silence the voices arising,
From those who would show us the light,
With their guys with their spies in the skies watching you and your neighbor.

And Who's Watching Over Who's Watching Over You?
Tell me who's telling you what to do what to do?
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
1
0
Originally posted by: palehorse74
does "underreported"="abused"?

LOL, if there not hiding anything then what are they worried about??


Does anyone else hear an echo??? :laugh:
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,570
7,631
136
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Sadly other Countries are going down the same dark path as the U.S.

While some of us want to decentralize government power/authority so it cannot be abused, others are more than happy to leads us into communism through socialism.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
I wasn't familiar with "national secutrity letters"

"National security letters," created in the 1970s for espionage and terrorism investigations, originated as narrow exceptions in consumer privacy law, enabling the FBI to review in secret the customer records of suspected foreign agents.

So, they allow the FBI to access telephone records (what numbers you called and how long you spoke) and bank info (deposits, transfers etc). And the people targeted are not to be made aware of the inquiry.

This seems like essential data to determine & prevent terrorist activity. Surely, you wouldn't wanna tip the suspects?

Also, this has been around a long time, it's no creation of the current admin. I don't find that it's usage increasing an odd thing, international terrorism if a fairly recent developement/concern.

The above story seems basically about bad record keeping. Does anybody really find that surprising? Every GAO report has reflected that for decades, the IRS can't keep up with money, they send bogus refunds all the time etc. The military can't keep up with equipment. Billions are "lost" every year.

Looks like their using these "national security letters" to investigate about 1,700 people a year (.0000058 of the population).

The muslim population, an expected target, is 2 million to 5 or 8 million. Even at 2 million 1,700 is .00085 of the population. Quite small IMHO.

Given the above, please explain to me your opinion below?

What an incredible violation of our citizen's civil rights for nothing.

TIA,

Fern
 

imported_Shivetya

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2005
2,978
1
0
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: Shivetya
Originally posted by: palehorse74
does "underreported"="abused"?

when its a Republican adminstration. Just wait till we someone who isn't as benign as Bush is in office. We have already seen the IRS used to go after opponents, the patriot act opens all new doors for politicians to bully people.


Cower in fear ya'll. The Federal government is slowly assuming all the rights it can, its been what, 40 years since the Constitution meant anything? Got to love a system which rules in its favor nearly all the time.

Interesting that you claim bush is "benign" and yet he and his Administration have gone on a rampage against civil rights during his two terms, pushing legislation and taking actions that verge on being illegal (and probably are) and quite possibly unconstitutional. It's a testament to your incredible bias that you can't lay the blame squarely where it belongs.

No big surprise there. You rail on and on with your apocalyptic prognostications of the future, but you can't point the finger at Bush for initiating the very things you fear. You are the very definition of "partisan hack." Nicely played. :thumbsdown:

Well his justice department hasn't killed any Americans yet, like WACO, Ruby Ridge, or deported poor defenseless kids by storming with SWASTIKA oops SWAT teams....

thats at least an improvement
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Sadly other Countries are going down the same dark path as the U.S.

While some of us want to decentralize government power/authority so it cannot be abused, others are more than happy to leads us into communism through socialism.

Yeah, I think you're looking in the wrong direction there, McCarthy. While it was the great boogeyman for the past 40 years, it seems like fascism is a far greater threat to the world and this country at the moment than socialism. Whatever problems you might have with handouts for poor people, it's not going to result in US citizens being arrested without cause and detained and tortured without trial or the right to a legal defense.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Some new info coming in:

Mueller: 'I Am the Person Responsible' For FBI Privacy Lapses
Last Edited: Friday, 09 Mar 2007, 7:30 PM EST
Created: Friday, 09 Mar 2007, 5:30 PM EST
03/09/2007 --

FBI Director Robert Mueller took responsibility Friday for problems over how the FBI used so-called national security letters to obtain sensitive information during terrorism investigations.

"I am the person responsible. I am the person accountable," Mueller told reporters during a news conference.

But despite Mueller's admissions, congressional leaders lashed out, scheduling hearings and calling for further investigation into the matter and calling for restrictions on the USA Patriot Act, which broadened the Justice Department's ability to use national security letters, which are key to terror investigations.

...

The report said that for three years the FBI has underreported to Congress how often it forced businesses to turn over the customer data, the audit found.

FBI agents sometimes demanded the data without proper authorization, according to the 126-page audit by Justice Department Inspector General Glenn A. Fine. At other times, the audit found, the FBI improperly obtained telephone records in non-emergency circumstances.

The audit blames agent error and shoddy record-keeping for the bulk of the problems and did not find any indication of criminal misconduct.

Still, "we believe the improper or illegal uses we found involve serious misuses of national security letter authorities," the audit concludes.

....

About three-fourths of the national security letters were issued for counterterror cases, and the other fourth for spy investigations.

Mueller earlier called Fine's audit "a fair and objective review of the FBI's use of a proven and useful investigative tool."

Fine's annual review is required by Congress, over the objections of the Bush administration.

The audit released Friday found that the number of national security letters issued by the FBI skyrocketed in the years after the Patriot Act became law.

In 2000, for example, the FBI issued an estimated 8,500 letters. By 2003, however, that number jumped to 39,000. It rose again the next year, to about 56,000 letters in 2004, and dropped to approximately 47,000 in 2005.

Over the entire three-year period, the audit found the FBI issued 143,074 national security letters requesting customer data from businesses.


The FBI vastly underreported the numbers. In 2005, the FBI told Congress that its agents in 2003 and 2004 had delivered only 9,254 national security letters seeking e-mail, telephone or financial information on 3,501 U.S. citizens and legal residents over the previous two years.

Additionally, the audit found, the FBI identified 26 possible violations in its use of the national security letters, including failing to get proper authorization, making improper requests under the law and unauthorized collection of telephone or Internet e-mail records.

Of the violations, 22 were caused by FBI errors, while the other four were the result of mistakes made by the firms that received the letters.

The FBI also used so-called "exigent letters," signed by officials at FBI headquarters who were not authorized to sign national security letters, to obtain information. In at least 700 cases, these exigent letters were sent to three telephone companies to get toll billing records and subscriber information.

"In many cases, there was no pending investigation associated with the request at the time the exigent letters were sent," the audit concluded.

The letters inaccurately said the FBI had requested subpoenas for the information requested ? "when, in fact, it had not," the audit found.

Link
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
1
0
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: palehorse74
does "underreported"="abused"?

LOL, if there not hiding anything then what are they worried about??


Does anyone else hear an echo??? :laugh:

It was just on the MSNBC evening news that the FBI now admits to "abuses" of the patriot act.

<in my best Gomer Pyle voice>

Well, surprise.... surprise.... surprise!!
 

rahvin

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,475
1
0
Not only did they LIE, 50+% of the people for which they issued the letters were in fact US Citizens. Not foreigners living on US soil, but true American Citizens.

Fine's annual review is required by Congress, over the objections of the Bush administration. It concluded that the number of national security letters requested by the FBI skyrocketed in the years after the Patriot Act became law. Each letter issued may contain several requests.

In 2000, for example, the FBI issued an estimated 8,500 requests. That number peaked in 2004 with 56,000. Overall, the FBI reported issuing 143,074 requests in national security letters between 2003 and 2005.

But that did not include an additional 8,850 requests that were never recorded in the FBI's database, the audit found. A sample review of 77 case files at four FBI field offices showed that agents had underreported the number of national security letter requests by about 22 percent.

Additionally, the audit found, the FBI identified 26 possible violations in its use of the letters, including failing to get proper authorization, making improper requests under the law and unauthorized collection of telephone or Internet e-mail records.

The FBI also used exigent letters to quickly get information ? sometimes in non-emergency situations ? without going through proper channels. In at least 700 cases, these letters were sent to three telephone companies to get billing records and subscriber information, the audit found.

The FBI has been a sewer of political corruption for years. Giving an organization that was founded by someone that engaged in direct blackmail using the power of the FBI, the ability to aquire unrestricted information (without oversight) about any individual is just about as smart as digging Hoover up and putting him back in charge. Does it even bother you that they lied, that they under reported nearly 1 in 4 letter, and that they sent illegal letters (even though the standard for sending them is so low)?

Ask yourself this, how many politicians with something to hide have now been blackmailed into supporting a bill in congress that they otherwise wouldn't have because it would have harmed their constituents or America in general?
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Sadly other Countries are going down the same dark path as the U.S.

While some of us want to decentralize government power/authority so it cannot be abused, others are more than happy to leads us into communism through socialism.

Some people are realizing anything would be better than rule under Republicans. :laugh:
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Sadly other Countries are going down the same dark path as the U.S.

While some of us want to decentralize government power/authority so it cannot be abused, others are more than happy to leads us into communism through socialism.

Yeah, I think you're looking in the wrong direction there, McCarthy. While it was the great boogeyman for the past 40 years, it seems like fascism is a far greater threat to the world and this country at the moment than socialism. Whatever problems you might have with handouts for poor people, it's not going to result in US citizens being arrested without cause and detained and tortured without trial or the right to a legal defense.

Communism/socialism is simply fascism with a smile on it's face. Powerful government (which is practically a requirement for socialism) will become abusive, it's simply a question when and how badly.
 
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