FBI shoots innocent Person!!!!!!!!!

[tjr2mental]

Well, from what the book (Black Hawk Down) says it will go through most body armor. What they were using was not the typical .223. It was a "Green Tip" round. From the book "The green tip had a tungsten carbide penetrator at the tip, and would punch holes through metal, but that very penetrating power ment the rounds were passing right through his targets." followed by, "The bullets made a small, clean hole, and unless it happened to hit the heart or spine, it wans't enough to stop a man in his tracks." Pg. 208

Seeing as how they still use the green tip... I have to say that if they wanted to kill him, they were better off using the m-16.

 

[Bigdude]

<<

<< I guess you guy's have never had a half dozen FBI M-16's pointed in your face before, just because you has Florida plates on your van? >>



Uhm... nope. Can't say that I have. Have you? If so, please start another thread and tell us all about it. It'll be fun! (You don't have to share the parts about making poop-stains on your camouflage undies if you don't want to) Florida plates are pretty suspicious. >>




I don't get scared, I get even!

 

[jjones]

<< I don't get scared, I get even! >>


sure you do.

 

[tcsenter]

<< they don't even think they did anything wrong >>

"In an extraordinary public apology for the mistaken shooting, Baltimore's top FBI agent said Wednesday that releasing details about what led to the shooting could jeopardize those investigations..."

 

[Pacfanweb]

<<In an extraordinary public apology for the mistaken shooting, Baltimore's top FBI agent said Wednesday that releasing details about what led to the shooting could jeopardize those investigations.>>

How anyone can read that and conclude that the FBI thinks they did nothing wrong is beyond me. I concur, your new nickname is now Bigmoron.

Of course the FBI is protecting us.....it kills me how some people think that law enforcement people should never make a mistake. They're human....it happens. Pretty tragic sometimes, but it does happen. As long as the FBI does right by this guy, I'm fine with what happened. That's the cost of doing business in a free society.

 

[Bigdude]

The agent that fired, should get life in prison!

 

[angusthermopyle]

Never having fired one I couldn't tell you about US Mil Spec Carbines. In Canada we use the C7 variant of the good old M16. The rounds we use are "tumblers". When the round leaves the barrel it tumbles end over end. These rounds most certainly will incapacitate someone. If the round hits the upper arm its likely to emerge at the level of the upper spine. It will also start a standing liquid shock wave in the body of the person hit. Effective way to incapacitate someone.

As for AK's having no penetrating power, where did you get that gem from? In Somalia our high ranking guys did not wear flack jackets. They wore body armour. Vests with thick composite plates inserted into them. On these plates was marked, "certified to stop 7.62 rounds". A 7.62 such as the AK can be used against light armoured vehicles. The round will penetrate 1/4" steel.

 

[Bigdude]

<< Never having fired one I couldn't tell you about US Mil Spec Carbines. In Canada we use the C7 variant of the good old M16. The rounds we use are "tumblers". When the round leaves the barrel it tumbles end over end. These rounds most certainly will incapacitate someone. If the round hits the upper arm its likely to emerge at the level of the upper spine. It will also start a standing liquid shock wave in the body of the person hit. Effective way to incapacitate someone.

As for AK's having no penetrating power, where did you get that gem from? In Somalia our high ranking guys did not wear flack jackets. They wore body armour. Vests with thick composite plates inserted into them. On these plates was marked, "certified to stop 7.62 rounds". A 7.62 such as the AK can be used against light armoured vehicles. The round will penetrate 1/4" steel. >>



The bullet does not tumble, until it hits human flesh, then it will turn sideways, that's with the old slow twist barrels. Long range accuracy, and penetration on armor was poor. Then the introduced the Green Tip M855 round 62 gr, with steel penetrator core, it must be use in a fast twist barrel, it has better range, and accuracy, performance in human flesh is also improved, as the bullet is designed to break into 3 peices.

 

[UberNeuman]

<< The agent that fired, should get life in prison! >>



Should Deputy Sheriff Randall Butler also get life in prison...

 

[Texmaster]

<< I am sitting here wondering what everyones reaction would be if the guy who had gotten shot had been black or a Muslim. Hmmm.......... >>




You are smart enough to already know the answer. First we would see the liars and political grabbers Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson. Then we would see the black panthers and then the Liberals would be screaming for another hate crime bill that only covers specific races and specific words.

 

[Bigdude]

From the same Baltimore Sun story:
Andrew C. White, a Baltimore attorney representing Braga, described him yesterday as a skilled officer with extensive training in handling weapons.

"We're confident when all the facts come out that[they'll show] he acted in accordance with training and FBI policy regarding the use of force,"

See, they say no big deal, we do this all the time!

 

[Bigdude]

<<

<< The agent that fired, should get life in prison! >>



Should Deputy Sheriff Randall Butler also get life in prison... >>



No, not even close to the same thing!

 

[Texmaster]

<< From the same Baltimore Sun story:
Andrew C. White, a Baltimore attorney representing Braga, described him yesterday as a skilled officer with extensive training in handling weapons.

"We're confident when all the facts come out that[they'll show] he acted in accordance with training and FBI policy regarding the use of force,"

See, they say no big deal, we do this all the time! >>



They NEVER say its not a big deal. They said he acted as his training indicated he should.

I PROMISE you you do not have all the facts.

BigMoron, stop adding in your own commentary and claiming others said it.

 

[UberNeuman]

<< No, not even close to the same thing! >>



How?

 

[Warin]

I have to agree with everyone else here..

Your comments are moronic.

Unless you subscribe to a great number of crackpot theories (And there are more right wing crackpot theorists about Ruby Ridge et al than there are liberal crackpot theorists about the same events) the job of the FBI is to protect and serve the people of your nation. Did they make a mistake shooting this poor guy in the face? I dont think anyone would deny that. But none of us know the facts of this tragic happening, because we werent there. And for us to sit here and try to judge it either way is irresponsible.

And if you want to condemn the FBI for shooting a guy they thought was a criminal, then you have to condemn the guy that shot the special forces dudes. After all, both incedences are mistaken identity cases where the law enforcement officer(s) believed they were dealing with a life threatening situation.

But I guess it's easier to let fly a jerk of the knee than it is to be rational.

ps: Some Sheriff's deputy got the drop on some Green Beret sorts. How sad is that? Even if they thought he was part of the scenario, they should have been able to take care of things without anyone getting killed.

 

[Bigdude]

<< I have to agree with everyone else here..

Your comments are moronic.

Unless you subscribe to a great number of crackpot theories (And there are more right wing crackpot theorists about Ruby Ridge et al than there are liberal crackpot theorists about the same events) the job of the FBI is to protect and serve the people of your nation. Did they make a mistake shooting this poor guy in the face? I dont think anyone would deny that. But none of us know the facts of this tragic happening, because we werent there. And for us to sit here and try to judge it either way is irresponsible.

And if you want to condemn the FBI for shooting a guy they thought was a criminal, then you have to condemn the guy that shot the special forces dudes. After all, both incedences are mistaken identity cases where the law enforcement officer(s) believed they were dealing with a life threatening situation.

But I guess it's easier to let fly a jerk of the knee than it is to be rational.

ps: Some Sheriff's deputy got the drop on some Green Beret sorts. How sad is that? Even if they thought he was part of the scenario, they should have been able to take care of things without anyone getting killed. >>



Let's be rational, the Deputy was attacked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The guy in the car was taking off his seatbealt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If the FBI can assume everyone they stop is a guilty felon, I sure as Hell can assume they were criminal is shooting this guy!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You people are so brain dead, you would let the government get away with anything!!!!!!!

 

[etech]

The story has been publicized, the incident is under investigation. If the agents were found to be negligent in their actions they will be punished.

Now if the story was not in the news and the government was not investigating you would have a point. You don?t.

There are bad people out there. This person in an unfortunate chain of events looked like one of them. When there are bad people around, good people will get hurt. This is one of those cases.

 

[UltraQuiet]

<< ps: Some Sheriff's deputy got the drop on some Green Beret sorts. How sad is that? Even if they thought he was part of the scenario, they should have been able to take care of things without anyone getting killed. >>


That's as stupid a statement as anything bigmoron has said here. There is a big difference between an exercise where you know no one is going to really get hurt and the real thing. I'm sure neither soldier thought they were going to actually get shot until they actually did. Get a clue.

 

[b0mbrman]

<< And if you want to condemn the FBI for shooting a guy they thought was a criminal, then you have to condemn the guy that shot the special forces dudes. After all, both incedences are mistaken identity cases where the law enforcement officer(s) believed they were dealing with a life threatening situation.

ps: Some Sheriff's deputy got the drop on some Green Beret sorts. How sad is that? Even if they thought he was part of the scenario, they should have been able to take care of things without anyone getting killed. >>


Why is it that the only time you give a damn about soldiers dying is when we die in some way such that you can point out how stupid we are or how corrupt the government is?

Sorry, but I don't think that Green Beret signed up and died so he could be your pawn to criticize the government.