FBI Suspects Israel Has Mole in Pentagon

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: Doboji
The news reports are backing off now... looks like the guy was not in a position to influence any decisions... furthermore all we know is that he passed intel. There is no indication that he, as an agent for Israel influenced our policy on Iraq.

-Max

He does not need to be in a postion of influence for Isreal to effect our foriegn policy. In poker just because I can't force you to bet or fold does not mean I don't gain an advantage by looking at all of your cards.

 

[Train]

interesting how this pops up right after the news of the "turf war" between the CIA and the Pentagon broke.

Also, this is no big deal, the US has spies in almost every country in the world, even MOST of our closest allies. We keep tabs on them, they keep tabs on us.

 

[ThePresence]

If you think the US doesn't have spies in Israel, you are severely naive.

 

[arsbanned]

Doboji

How bad was it last time exactly?... do you even know?

Google is your friend.:

Jonathan Pollard, a naval civilian intelligence analyst, was convicted in 1986 of spying for Israel.

Pollard gave the Israelis information on code-breaking and on US agents and contacts.

Israel paid Pollard as much as $2,500 a month for spying, as well as $30,000 cash bonuses.

Pollard pleaded guilty to espionage and was given a life sentence.

Pollard was a civilian senior analyst in the secret Field Operational Intelligence Office in Suitland, Md. The post required top-security clearance because Pollard had access to the highly classified files of the entire U.S. intelligence community. His former employers have conceded that ?in the time he spied for Israel, Pollard read and copied and transmitted every worthwhile secret we had.?

?Compared to Pollard, the damage done by other U.S. spies during the Cold War and subsequently pales into insignificance,? Secretary of Defense Casper Weinberger had said at the time.

Ted Gunderson, a top FBI agent at the time Pollard was arrested, said: ?Pollard stole every worthwhile intelligence secret we had. We are still trying to recover from what he did. We had to withdraw dozens of agents in place in the former Soviet Union, in the Middle East, South Africa and friendly nations like Britain, France and Germany. The American public just doesn?t know the full extent of what he did.?

Pollard also provided a clear picture of U.S. intelligence gathering methods in the Middle East. In his trial, it was told he sent ?over 360 cubic meters [yards, approximately] of paper to Israel.?

n indication of how much more could emerge in that ?page in history? has surfaced. ?We now know that Israel traded some of Pollard?s stolen secrets to the Russians in return for having Jews freed from Russia. But the still unresolved question is whether Pollard?s thefts were also passed to China,? said Ben-Menashe.
Link

ThePresence

If you think the US doesn't have spies in Israel, you are severely naive.

How many of the secrets gleaned by our spies have been sold to the Iranians? Becuase that's the parallel to what they did to us with Pollard.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: arsbanned
How many of the secrets gleaned by our spies have been sold to the Iranians? Becuase that's the parallel to what they did to us with Pollard.

I have no idea, they were never caught yet. Countries do not have "friends" or "loyalties". Countries have interests. It's always been that way, and it will continue to be that way. Do you think the US gives a shite about Israel? Of course not. It just happens to be in the US interest to appear so. Israel does not give a shite about the US either. They just got caught. Let's not delude ourselves.

 

[Falloutboy]

we just need to cut israel loose they have enough toys to defend them selfs and if they want to start a war I have nothing against it it'd be thier own demise

 

[arsbanned]

I have no idea, they were never caught yet. Countries do not have "friends" or "loyalties". Countries have interests. It's always been that way, and it will continue to be that way. Do you think the US gives a shite about Israel? Of course not. It just happens to be in the US interest to appear so. Israel does not give a shite about the US either. They just got caught. Let's not delude ourselves.

OK, that's all well and good. Now let's stop supporting them financially!

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: arsbanned
<blockquote>quote:
<hr> I have no idea, they were never caught yet. Countries do not have "friends" or "loyalties". Countries have interests. It's always been that way, and it will continue to be that way. Do you think the US gives a shite about Israel? Of course not. It just happens to be in the US interest to appear so. Israel does not give a shite about the US either. They just got caught. Let's not delude ourselves. <hr></blockquote>

OK, that's all well and good. Now let's stop supporting them financially!

Obviously, the government considers it in it's best interest to support them financially. The same way they support Egypt financially.

 

[Gaard]

Originally posted by: Frenchie
Of all the countries with spies in our governement, the Israeli spies are the least of our concerns. Would I like for there to be no spies in our govt? Of course. Is it going to happen anytime soon? Nope.

Why, if according to you it's "ok" to have spies in our government, do you wish there were no spies in our government?

 

[Gaard]

I was watching someone on FOX interviewing one of their many unbiased 'experts' (I think his name was Major something), and he was saying nonchalantly that the reason Israel was spying on the US was because they were such good friends and they were merely seeking more information. :shocked: I was expecting the interviewer to react the same way I did...uncontrolable laughter...but it was taken as a serious and logical answer. :roll:

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: Gaard
I was watching someone on FOX...

that is where you screwed up.

 

[Gaard]

:beer:

 

[arsbanned]

Yeah, it's amazing how the right-wingers think treason is A-OK! No Problem!
Now, if it had been France which had a mole in the Pentagon, "OMG, OFF WITH HIS HEAD!"

 

[Doboji]

Again... as I've said before.. IT IS NOT CLEAR THAT LAWRENCE FRANKLIN ACTUALLY CONDUCTED ESPIONAGE, OR THAT IF HE DID HE DID IT AT THE BEQUEST OF THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT.

As usual... the conclusion is... DONT JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS.

-Max

 

[Infohawk]

Do we know if he was a dual-citizen yet?

Someone said the US does not recognize dual-citizenship. That's false, the US does.

Drifter suggested that ending dual-citizenship would solve these sorts of problems. Wrong. Dual-citizens are normally not allowed to get access to these kinds of materials. In other words, they aren't given these jobs. That's the solution we have now. Now Israel poses a problem because basically anyone of jewish descent can apparently get Jewish citizenship. Even if they don't have it, it's fair to ask where their allegiances are. Many of my Jewish American friends are insanely protective to Israel and some have even said Israel comes first. I don't think these people should be given top-secret jobs. That said, I don't think they're necessarily un-American or should be stripped of dual-citizenship. What strikes me as particularly bizarre is that people with close relations to Israel would work in the US team for the middle-east policy. Talk about a conflict of interest!

Gaard, I too have heard some interesting explanations of why this is not a problem or a misunderstanding. In the times I think I read an argument like, "oooh this probably isn't espionage because AIPAC (sp?) or Sharon could get all this info from Bush." So basically we are an open-book for Israel and they can get whatever they want anyway? Sad.

Finally, I'm glad I'm not the only one tired of the people who yell anti-semite when someone questions US support for Israel. If this were another country people would be going more nuts.

 

[Ozoned]

More here

 

[faiznne]

I hope Jonathan Pollard is having a good time in prison for his stupidity. I've read news articles in the past where the U.S. Intelligence agencies have documented hundreds of Israeli spies in the CIA, FBI, Pentagon, etc.

Israel takes our support for granted. Read up on what Ralph Nader and Pat Buchanan says on Israel.

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: Infohawk
Do we know if he was a dual-citizen yet?

Someone said the US does not recognize dual-citizenship. That's false, the US does.

Drifter suggested that ending dual-citizenship would solve these sorts of problems. Wrong. Dual-citizens are normally not allowed to get access to these kinds of materials. In other words, they aren't given these jobs. That's the solution we have now. Now Israel poses a problem because basically anyone of jewish descent can apparently get Jewish citizenship. Even if they don't have it, it's fair to ask where their allegiances are. Many of my Jewish American friends are insanely protective to Israel and some have even said Israel comes first. I don't think these people should be given top-secret jobs. That said, I don't think they're necessarily un-American or should be stripped of dual-citizenship. What strikes me as particularly bizarre is that people with close relations to Israel would work in the US team for the middle-east policy. Talk about a conflict of interest!

Gaard, I too have heard some interesting explanations of why this is not a problem or a misunderstanding. In the times I think I read an argument like, "oooh this probably isn't espionage because AIPAC (sp?) or Sharon could get all this info from Bush." So basically we are an open-book for Israel and they can get whatever they want anyway? Sad.

Finally, I'm glad I'm not the only one tired of the people who yell anti-semite when someone questions US support for Israel. If this were another country people would be going more nuts.

I agree with your overall post but let me clarify something:




Anyone who is a citizen of another nation should not be allowed to hold any government positions in this nation. Like I said we need to get rid of dual-citizenships and not allow anyone who is a citizen of another nation as well as a citizen of this nation of ours to hold any office in government. You can not allow someone who has sworn a oath of loyalty to another nation to work in our government. It is shear madness to do so otherwise. You have to draw the line in the sand somewhere IMHO. Once you accept the citizenship of another nation you should not be allowed to remain a U.S. citizen

 

[Infohawk]

Ari Fleischer is an Israeli citizen, Richard Perle is an Israeli citizen, Paul Wolfowitz is an Israeli citizen.

I don't mean to be condescending but do you know what citizenship is? They are Jewish but I don't think they're actually Israeli citizens. Please support your statement with proof that they hold Israeli citizenship. That said, I do remember people saying Perle or Wolfowitz has dual-citizenship so maybe you're right.

I also agree that if they are dual-citizens they shouldn't be allowed to be in our national security apparatus.

 

[Doboji]

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: Infohawk
Do we know if he was a dual-citizen yet?

Someone said the US does not recognize dual-citizenship. That's false, the US does.

Drifter suggested that ending dual-citizenship would solve these sorts of problems. Wrong. Dual-citizens are normally not allowed to get access to these kinds of materials. In other words, they aren't given these jobs. That's the solution we have now. Now Israel poses a problem because basically anyone of jewish descent can apparently get Jewish citizenship. Even if they don't have it, it's fair to ask where their allegiances are. Many of my Jewish American friends are insanely protective to Israel and some have even said Israel comes first. I don't think these people should be given top-secret jobs. That said, I don't think they're necessarily un-American or should be stripped of dual-citizenship. What strikes me as particularly bizarre is that people with close relations to Israel would work in the US team for the middle-east policy. Talk about a conflict of interest!

Gaard, I too have heard some interesting explanations of why this is not a problem or a misunderstanding. In the times I think I read an argument like, "oooh this probably isn't espionage because AIPAC (sp?) or Sharon could get all this info from Bush." So basically we are an open-book for Israel and they can get whatever they want anyway? Sad.

Finally, I'm glad I'm not the only one tired of the people who yell anti-semite when someone questions US support for Israel. If this were another country people would be going more nuts.

I agree with your overall post but let me clarify something:




Anyone who is a citizen of another nation should not be allowed to hold any government positions in this nation. Like I said we need to get rid of dual-citizenships and not allow anyone who is a citizen of another nation as well as a citizen of this nation of ours to hold any office in government. You can not allow someone who has sworn a oath of loyalty to another nation to work in our government. It is shear madness to do so otherwise. You have to draw the line in the sand somewhere IMHO. Once you accept the citizenship of another nation you should not be allowed to remain a U.S. citizen

First you need to indicate a situation where dual-citzenship has ever caused a problem? I know of absolutely no examples.

-Max

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: Doboji

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: Infohawk
Do we know if he was a dual-citizen yet?

Someone said the US does not recognize dual-citizenship. That's false, the US does.

Drifter suggested that ending dual-citizenship would solve these sorts of problems. Wrong. Dual-citizens are normally not allowed to get access to these kinds of materials. In other words, they aren't given these jobs. That's the solution we have now. Now Israel poses a problem because basically anyone of jewish descent can apparently get Jewish citizenship. Even if they don't have it, it's fair to ask where their allegiances are. Many of my Jewish American friends are insanely protective to Israel and some have even said Israel comes first. I don't think these people should be given top-secret jobs. That said, I don't think they're necessarily un-American or should be stripped of dual-citizenship. What strikes me as particularly bizarre is that people with close relations to Israel would work in the US team for the middle-east policy. Talk about a conflict of interest!

Gaard, I too have heard some interesting explanations of why this is not a problem or a misunderstanding. In the times I think I read an argument like, "oooh this probably isn't espionage because AIPAC (sp?) or Sharon could get all this info from Bush." So basically we are an open-book for Israel and they can get whatever they want anyway? Sad.

Finally, I'm glad I'm not the only one tired of the people who yell anti-semite when someone questions US support for Israel. If this were another country people would be going more nuts.

I agree with your overall post but let me clarify something:




Anyone who is a citizen of another nation should not be allowed to hold any government positions in this nation. Like I said we need to get rid of dual-citizenships and not allow anyone who is a citizen of another nation as well as a citizen of this nation of ours to hold any office in government. You can not allow someone who has sworn a oath of loyalty to another nation to work in our government. It is shear madness to do so otherwise. You have to draw the line in the sand somewhere IMHO. Once you accept the citizenship of another nation you should not be allowed to remain a U.S. citizen

First you need to indicate a situation where dual-citzenship has ever caused a problem? I know of absolutely no examples.

-Max

Doesn't Chalabi have dual-citizenship ? Then again I guess we should change the pledge to "I Pledge Allegiance to . . . Whatever'" right ? When you become a citizen of the United States of America you are required to disavow all allegiances and oaths to other nations. Dual-Citizenships whether granted by the US or by other nations are in contradicted to this oath.

 

[classy]

Originally posted by: arsbanned
Bastards. Iran is a better friend to the U.S. than Israel. At least we KNOW where they are coming from. <BR>Israel is working behind our backs all the time. <BR>This isn't the first time. I think we still have one of their spies in in a U.S. prison, don't we?

What..........man put the pipe down.

 

[OffTopic1]

Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer. -- Sun Tzu.

 

[faiznne]

Does anyone have any reaction from politicians yet?

I can imagine that most statements will be peppered with, "This does not undermine our commitment to Israel."

But hopefully some politician will get some guts. It looks like there are some loyal Americans left in the government-- which is the reason for this in the first place.

 

[arsbanned]

Doboji
So, how about a response on the Pollard case. Pretty damning stuff, if you ask me.