Fed Pledges Top $7.4 Trillion to Ease Frozen Credit

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Ok, so give me a timeline of what you think would happen if Citibank were allowed to fail. What would happen to lending and business in the next day, week, 2 weeks, month, year, 5 years, and decade.

Incorporate commercial spending, consumer spending, jobs, economic growth. Keep in mind human irrationality, using that to determine both borrowing and lending. Then apply that to the banking system as a whole and the resulting influences upon the first sentances factors.

Then extrapolate that to the global economy, consider the flow of goods and services needed and supplied on a global level.

This ought to be good. I'm sure we'll get a 2-page fully rationalized and outline response. I'm looking forward to a great education from an economics master.

You've never been able to supply one and your the self proclaimed expert. Funny that.

In fact, NO ONE has ever given what you want. Because frnakly, no one knows and many arent convinced it would be the end times some say it would be.

as I knew what would happen. A fucking cop-out. You're on here as a wannabe expert spewing bullshit but you're "knowledge" is less than veneer thick.

Well I'll make it easy.

What happened with the last few banks that have failed? If we draw on history to determine what would happen with Citi......OH HEY!! The sun would come up tomorrow....Amazing.

As i said, for the self proclaimed expert your surely short on facts.

Another cop-out. The fact is you have no knowledge in the area to even understand the distributive costs of letting the economy go into the toilette. You claim you can't answer the question because it is unanswerable. It is quite answerable and a rational and educated person could provide the answer pretty easily. It might take you 15 minutes of typing, but you could do it. However, YouTube or MoneyMasters doesn't provide you with the knowledge to do so and your parents didn't give you enough brainpower to understand it.


do you even know what's going on in the debt markets? Letting LEH fail was disasterous, to good and bad businesses.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Specop 007
And the Home Builders are asking for thier handout too.....

CNN had a piece yesterday that the nation's transits needed over 100 billion dollars because they cheated the IRS code from the late 90's up until the mid 2000's and the partner of choice was AIG. Now they are in the hole and will likely go under without a bailout, lol.

I wonder if the builder of the money printing presses is hiring? If not, they should be! :Q

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

The British, the Spanish, the Confederates, the Japanese, the Germans, the Italians, the Russians, the Chinese, and the Terrorists have all failed, but we have succeeded in defeating ourselves.

 

[badnewcastle]

:thumbsdown:Holy f-ing hell!!!!:Q:frown::thumbsdown:

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
The British, the Spanish, the Confederates, the Japanese, the Germans, the Italians, the Russians, the Chinese, and the Terrorists have all failed, but we have succeeded in defeating ourselves.

All because we were hoodwinked into thinking Bushco and his cronies were "free market capitalists" and that the banks could take care of themselves.

We never learned from 1929 or 1870s.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Another cop-out. The fact is you have no knowledge in the area to even understand the distributive costs of letting the economy go into the toilette. You claim you can't answer the question because it is unanswerable. It is quite answerable and a rational and educated person could provide the answer pretty easily. It might take you 15 minutes of typing, but you could do it. However, YouTube or MoneyMasters doesn't provide you with the knowledge to do so and your parents didn't give you enough brainpower to understand it.


do you even know what's going on in the debt markets? Letting LEH fail was disasterous, to good and bad businesses.

Its not a cop out, its fact. No one KNOWS what would happen. I find it telling that you think you do....

After all, the wheels still seem to be turning even though you mention how disasterous the LEH issue is.

Uh huh. Horrible isnt it. In fact I cant even get milk because the grocery store is out... :laugh:

You keep trying to tell us just how horrible it would be if these handful of institutions would fail, but so far the few cases in which they have has resulted in.......Oh wait, hell theres no end of the world. Oh yeah, stores are still open. I can still get gas!! HOLY SHIT THE WOLRD DIDNT END!!!

Keep sellin the fear LK. But I aint buyin.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

The cost of doing nothing is a failed *WORLD ECONOMY*. The cost of what we are doing is a temporary bridge loan.

Trust me, I don't like this situation more than the next guy. I fricking can't stand the idiots who took these bets.

However, I also realize that letting the economy crater affects the whole world and will drive us into a depression quickly.

I think the people here still haven't realized that "capitalism" is another word for human irrationality. Humans are never rational and over correct in all circumstances.

Letting one large bank, such as Citi, fail, would cause a panic (irrationality), further eroding the system and leading to worse circumstances

Everybody would be touched by this. From the janitor to the factory worker. No BUSINESS*ES* would be able to sustain themselves.

Not necesarily. Thats just what the fear mongers want people to think. To say no business should be allowed to fail is assinine. This certainly isnt the first time something like this has happened, and most likely it wont be the last. The difference is rather then let a sector suffer (banking) we're sharing the pain and shuffling the wealth to a handful of Chosen Ones. Granted, no one knows who the hell those Chosen Ones are because the Feds wont say. Nor will they say what they are getting in return.

All We the People are told is it "has to be done" and we "cant let it fail" so shut the hell up.

Yep, all LK is spewing is socialist bullsht. Hell, give at least some of that money back to the people and they might feel a little better about lining the rich schmucks' coffers. Case in point: the AIG schmucks who are getting bonuses off the people's money.

Isn't letting the system fail and the world take the head, socialism? Distributed costs.

I could go on for a day about AIG but you'd still not get it.

Wrong. Nationalizing large companies that will fail is called socialism. Nobody said anything about not correcting the "system". /cluebat: You can correct the "system" without letting every company suck the government's teet and the taxpayer's money.

If we're going to be willing participants in socialism, at least give a big chunk back to the people. It will temporarily stimulate the economy while large, mismanaged banks die out, and leaner/more shrewd ones who have shown fiscal responsibility get the rest of the money to increase liquidity.

Yes, please go on for a day about how AIG execs aren't misappropriating bailout money. /snicker

 

[First]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
Where are LK and Evan to tell us that this is sound monetary policy and that we just don't understand like they do?

You just don't understand, that's for sure. :laugh:

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Evan

Originally posted by: BoberFett
Where are LK and Evan to tell us that this is sound monetary policy and that we just don't understand like they do?

You just don't understand, that's for sure. :laugh:

There's LK's jock strap! Knew you wouldn't miss this one.

 

[First]

How cute, my own e-stalker still has a hard-on for me. :laugh:

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
This reminds me of that Futurama episode wherein the Professor accidentally destabilizes space-time by using chronitons to create a team of atomic supermen to take on the Harlem Globetrotters. The plot is convoluted, but at some point, in order to stop time-space from destroying civilization as we know it, the Professor and "Bubblegum" Tate of the Globetrotters propose to build a "bad-ass gravity pump" to reposition some stars and fix the problem. The only issue remaining is that building the pump would require all of the world's money. A short blip forward in time, Nixon hands over a check reading "All the world's money" and the gravity pump gets built.

Long story short, it's kinda like that.

oh god its become reality

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
Where are LK and Evan to tell us that this is sound monetary policy and that we just don't understand like they do?

why don't i ever get callouts in these threads? Am i not cool enough?

 

[First]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: BoberFett
Where are LK and Evan to tell us that this is sound monetary policy and that we just don't understand like they do?

why don't i ever get callouts in these threads? Am i not cool enough?

You don't try hard enough damn it.

 

[Dufusyte]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Dufusyte
The cost of doing nothing is bad businesses fail. Those who entrusted their money to bad businesses lose. And everyone learns a lesson and gets wiser.

The cost of intervening is: bad businesses stay afloat, people learn that folly is rewarded by bailout, and we continue being irresponsible (plus our children are doomed to pay for it all).

What about the good businesses that cannot expand, or ones that have derivative effects from the "bad" business, resulting in a slowdown of the "good" business.

It will teach *everyone* the importance of sound business. The more people get burned, the more everyone will demand a culture of sound business (for next time).

Now is a learning moment, and we need to learn. Learn - so as to not repeat the mistake.

Crashes happen every ~70 years, because the generation that learns from a crash, demands sound business for the rest of their lifetimes. When that generation dies off, then the next generation falls for the lure of unsound business, and another crash is in order.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Dufusyte

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Dufusyte
The cost of doing nothing is bad businesses fail. Those who entrusted their money to bad businesses lose. And everyone learns a lesson and gets wiser.

The cost of intervening is: bad businesses stay afloat, people learn that folly is rewarded by bailout, and we continue being irresponsible (plus our children are doomed to pay for it all).

What about the good businesses that cannot expand, or ones that have derivative effects from the "bad" business, resulting in a slowdown of the "good" business.

It will teach *everyone* the importance of sound business. The more people get burned, the more everyone will demand a culture of sound business (for next time).

Now is a learning moment, and we need to learn. Learn - so as to not repeat the mistake.

Crashes happen every ~70 years, because the generation that learns from a crash, demands sound business for the rest of their lifetimes. When that generation dies off, then the next generation falls for the lure of unsound business, and another crash is in order.

The "tough love" idea. Great, so now you want to be responsible for it?

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: Dufusyte

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Dufusyte
The cost of doing nothing is bad businesses fail. Those who entrusted their money to bad businesses lose. And everyone learns a lesson and gets wiser.

The cost of intervening is: bad businesses stay afloat, people learn that folly is rewarded by bailout, and we continue being irresponsible (plus our children are doomed to pay for it all).

What about the good businesses that cannot expand, or ones that have derivative effects from the "bad" business, resulting in a slowdown of the "good" business.

It will teach *everyone* the importance of sound business. The more people get burned, the more everyone will demand a culture of sound business (for next time).

Now is a learning moment, and we need to learn. Learn - so as to not repeat the mistake.

Crashes happen every ~70 years, because the generation that learns from a crash, demands sound business for the rest of their lifetimes. When that generation dies off, then the next generation falls for the lure of unsound business, and another crash is in order.

But if you regulate enough, every business has to be "sound". I don't see why we can't increase regulations for the future and reward the "sound" banks with bailout money, not the crooked ones (who should be left to flounder). Bottom line is, if there's room for greed it will manifest itself.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

The cost of doing nothing is a failed *WORLD ECONOMY*. The cost of what we are doing is a temporary bridge loan.

Trust me, I don't like this situation more than the next guy. I fricking can't stand the idiots who took these bets.

However, I also realize that letting the economy crater affects the whole world and will drive us into a depression quickly.

I think the people here still haven't realized that "capitalism" is another word for human irrationality. Humans are never rational and over correct in all circumstances.

Letting one large bank, such as Citi, fail, would cause a panic (irrationality), further eroding the system and leading to worse circumstances

Everybody would be touched by this. From the janitor to the factory worker. No BUSINESS*ES* would be able to sustain themselves.

Not necesarily. Thats just what the fear mongers want people to think. To say no business should be allowed to fail is assinine. This certainly isnt the first time something like this has happened, and most likely it wont be the last. The difference is rather then let a sector suffer (banking) we're sharing the pain and shuffling the wealth to a handful of Chosen Ones. Granted, no one knows who the hell those Chosen Ones are because the Feds wont say. Nor will they say what they are getting in return.

All We the People are told is it "has to be done" and we "cant let it fail" so shut the hell up.

Yep, all LK is spewing is socialist bullsht. Hell, give at least some of that money back to the people and they might feel a little better about lining the rich schmucks' coffers. Case in point: the AIG schmucks who are getting bonuses off the people's money.

Give the money back to the people? It's not their money. Do you even understand how the federal reserve works? You think it's a dollar printing factory?

 

[First]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

The cost of doing nothing is a failed *WORLD ECONOMY*. The cost of what we are doing is a temporary bridge loan.

Trust me, I don't like this situation more than the next guy. I fricking can't stand the idiots who took these bets.

However, I also realize that letting the economy crater affects the whole world and will drive us into a depression quickly.

I think the people here still haven't realized that "capitalism" is another word for human irrationality. Humans are never rational and over correct in all circumstances.

Letting one large bank, such as Citi, fail, would cause a panic (irrationality), further eroding the system and leading to worse circumstances

Everybody would be touched by this. From the janitor to the factory worker. No BUSINESS*ES* would be able to sustain themselves.

Not necesarily. Thats just what the fear mongers want people to think. To say no business should be allowed to fail is assinine. This certainly isnt the first time something like this has happened, and most likely it wont be the last. The difference is rather then let a sector suffer (banking) we're sharing the pain and shuffling the wealth to a handful of Chosen Ones. Granted, no one knows who the hell those Chosen Ones are because the Feds wont say. Nor will they say what they are getting in return.

All We the People are told is it "has to be done" and we "cant let it fail" so shut the hell up.

Yep, all LK is spewing is socialist bullsht. Hell, give at least some of that money back to the people and they might feel a little better about lining the rich schmucks' coffers. Case in point: the AIG schmucks who are getting bonuses off the people's money.

Isn't letting the system fail and the world take the head, socialism? Distributed costs.

I could go on for a day about AIG but you'd still not get it.

Wrong. Nationalizing large companies that will fail is called socialism. Nobody said anything about not correcting the "system". /cluebat: You can correct the "system" without letting every company suck the government's teet and the taxpayer's money.

If we're going to be willing participants in socialism, at least give a big chunk back to the people. It will temporarily stimulate the economy while large, mismanaged banks die out, and leaner/more shrewd ones who have shown fiscal responsibility get the rest of the money to increase liquidity.

Yes, please go on for a day about how AIG execs aren't misappropriating bailout money. /snicker

There's an economic stimulus package for consumers currently being proposed at half a trillion dollars, making its way through Congress right now.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

The cost of doing nothing is a failed *WORLD ECONOMY*. The cost of what we are doing is a temporary bridge loan.

Trust me, I don't like this situation more than the next guy. I fricking can't stand the idiots who took these bets.

However, I also realize that letting the economy crater affects the whole world and will drive us into a depression quickly.

I think the people here still haven't realized that "capitalism" is another word for human irrationality. Humans are never rational and over correct in all circumstances.

Letting one large bank, such as Citi, fail, would cause a panic (irrationality), further eroding the system and leading to worse circumstances

Everybody would be touched by this. From the janitor to the factory worker. No BUSINESS*ES* would be able to sustain themselves.

Not necesarily. Thats just what the fear mongers want people to think. To say no business should be allowed to fail is assinine. This certainly isnt the first time something like this has happened, and most likely it wont be the last. The difference is rather then let a sector suffer (banking) we're sharing the pain and shuffling the wealth to a handful of Chosen Ones. Granted, no one knows who the hell those Chosen Ones are because the Feds wont say. Nor will they say what they are getting in return.

All We the People are told is it "has to be done" and we "cant let it fail" so shut the hell up.

Yep, all LK is spewing is socialist bullsht. Hell, give at least some of that money back to the people and they might feel a little better about lining the rich schmucks' coffers. Case in point: the AIG schmucks who are getting bonuses off the people's money.

Give the money back to the people? It's not their money. Do you even understand how the federal reserve works? You think it's a dollar printing factory?

Do you even know what a stimulus package is? Do you think it's to inject liquidity into the economy? Do you think it's to fund better education so people will grow up and think before posting?

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

The cost of doing nothing is a failed *WORLD ECONOMY*. The cost of what we are doing is a temporary bridge loan.

Trust me, I don't like this situation more than the next guy. I fricking can't stand the idiots who took these bets.

However, I also realize that letting the economy crater affects the whole world and will drive us into a depression quickly.

I think the people here still haven't realized that "capitalism" is another word for human irrationality. Humans are never rational and over correct in all circumstances.

Letting one large bank, such as Citi, fail, would cause a panic (irrationality), further eroding the system and leading to worse circumstances

Everybody would be touched by this. From the janitor to the factory worker. No BUSINESS*ES* would be able to sustain themselves.

Not necesarily. Thats just what the fear mongers want people to think. To say no business should be allowed to fail is assinine. This certainly isnt the first time something like this has happened, and most likely it wont be the last. The difference is rather then let a sector suffer (banking) we're sharing the pain and shuffling the wealth to a handful of Chosen Ones. Granted, no one knows who the hell those Chosen Ones are because the Feds wont say. Nor will they say what they are getting in return.

All We the People are told is it "has to be done" and we "cant let it fail" so shut the hell up.

Yep, all LK is spewing is socialist bullsht. Hell, give at least some of that money back to the people and they might feel a little better about lining the rich schmucks' coffers. Case in point: the AIG schmucks who are getting bonuses off the people's money.

Give the money back to the people? It's not their money. Do you even understand how the federal reserve works? You think it's a dollar printing factory?

Do you even know what a stimulus package is? Do you think it's to inject liquidity into the economy? Do you think it's to fund better education so people will grow up and think before posting?

What the hell are you talking about? Are you talking about TARP or Fed purchase of CP?

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: JS80

What the hell are you talking about? Are you talking about TARP or Fed purchase of CP?

Are you dense? I was jesting at your post by asking if the stimulus was to "inject liquidity" because it was obvious that you couldn't comprehend that "giving money back to the people" =! "dollar printing factory", i.e. bailout/loans to stimulate lending. Hence the wink and playful derision in my last sentence.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: JS80

What the hell are you talking about? Are you talking about TARP or Fed purchase of CP?

Are you dense? I was jesting at your post by asking if the stimulus was to "inject liquidity" because it was obvious that you couldn't comprehend that "giving money back to the people" =! "dollar printing factory", i.e. bailout/loans to stimulate lending. Hence the wink and playful derision in my last sentence.

well shit it's the internets not real life convo.

 

[smashp]

Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P.................Fuck we are out of Paper


So what happens when they run out of paper printing but need to print more money to buy the paper to print the money on

 

[Capitalizt]

Originally posted by: smashp
Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P.................Fuck we are out of Paper


So what happens when they run out of paper printing but need to print more money to buy the paper to print the money on

They will start printing trees of course.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Capitalizt

Originally posted by: smashp
Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P,Ctrl-P.................Fuck we are out of Paper


So what happens when they run out of paper printing but need to print more money to buy the paper to print the money on

They will start printing trees of course.

Nope. Newly created debit cards from Citibank!