Federal Exise Tax on Cigerettes and Cigars

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,461
996
126
I felt this deserved its own thread.

Tucked inside the SCHIP Bill is this little, extremely regressive tax, on cigerettes. As passed by the House, the bill would increase the federal excise tax on cigerettes by $.45 and increase the taxes on cigars by 200%.

This is an extremely regressive tax, that will HURT the poor, who are vast majority of those who smoke. Some places in the country will be over $9 a pack as a result. Cigerettes are already the MOST taxed item in the country, when is enough, enough?

And no I don't smoke, but this type of tax is going to hurt the "working poor" as Dave likes to call them, more than anyone else. Its also highly discriminatory and IMHO just a bad idea offered up by the democrats.

It seems the the democrats have a penchent for adding tax increases to unrelated bills as of late(the farm bill and schip bills both have tax increases tucked away in them). For those who don't know the democrats managed to get a tax increase on foriegn companies operating and employing americans in the United States. And people say we have a problem with unempolyment, obviously the Democrats dont think so since they decided to increase the tax on foreign companies employing americans in the United States.

Update: 9/25/07
Just the latest update.

The House decided to adopt the Senates engrossed versionm which while has a higher increase of taxes on tobacco is a lot less controversial, which is why it passed the Senate with enough support to override a veto.

The House is supposed to vote on the Senates version sometime this evening. The Bill is now HR 975 IIRC. Its easily going to pass, and more GOP members have decided to vote for it because they wont be able to explain to their constitutents why the didnt vote for Childrens healthcare.


The Senate version calls for a smaller increase of only 35billion, which is still more than the GOP and Bush wants.

The bill still allows those making 300% above the poverty level in certain areas to get coverage for their children(FYI thats $82,000, and is eligible for places like NY).

The increase to the excise tax on a pack of cigs is $.61 a pack, which bring the total federal tax on a pack of cigs to $1. Its an extremely regressive tax, and those who will be shouldering it are the ones the SCHIP bill is supposed to help out.

Bush has threatend to Veto. Key GOP members are trying to get him not to as it will add to GOP problems in '08
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Good. Maybe they'll quit and not use public money for as much health related problems.
 

rpanic

Golden Member
Dec 1, 2006
1,896
7
81
Lung cancer killed the three of my grandparents that smoked, in a slow agonizingly painful death. Tax the crap out of it.
 

imported_Shivetya

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2005
2,978
1
0
The government needs to ban cigarettes.


The problem is, as much as your "poor" are addicted to them, governments at all levels are addicted to the tax money the take in from their sales.

The poor are also fleeced by lotteries but I don't see anyone stepping forward to end those!

The cigar tax is just stupid, why not apply the same tax to cigarettes?

 

compuwiz1

Admin Emeritus Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
27,110
925
126
Everybody has a habit, or affinity toward something. Some people enjoy a smoke, some enjoy a candy bar, some enjoy a drink, and some enjoy a beautiful hooker. Tax them all, or tax none of them.

Very discriminatory bullshit, IMO.

The the health arguements are very valid, but only when the US is paying for all my medical insurance and hospitalization costs, would I support these lame taxes. :|
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Wreckem
I felt this deserved its own thread.

Tucked inside the SCHIP Bill is this little, extremely regressive tax, on cigerettes. As passed by the House, the bill would increase the federal excise tax on cigerettes by $.45 and increase the taxes on cigars by 200%.

This is an extremely regressive tax, that will HURT the poor, who are vast majority of those who smoke. Some places in the country will be over $9 a pack as a result. Cigerettes are already the MOST taxed item in the country, when is enough, enough?

And no I don't smoke, but this type of tax is going to hurt the "working poor" as Dave likes to call them, more than anyone else. Its also highly discriminatory and IMHO just a bad idea offered up by the democrats.

It seems the the democrats have a penchent for adding tax increases to unrelated bills as of late(the farm bill and schip bills both have tax increases tucked away in them). For those who don't know the democrats managed to get a tax increase on foriegn companies operating and employing americans in the United States. And people say we have a problem with unempolyment, obviously the Democrats dont think so since they decided to increase the tax on foreign companies employing americans in the United States.

Maybe Dems wouldn't have to tack on such a good tax if Republicans weren't owned by the big Tabacco Corporations.

Most of the folks covered the "Sin" tax well. :thumbsup:

However there was one saying that candy is the same as a cigarette.

I wasn't aware of candy causing cancer.

Edited by request
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,744
2,518
126
Originally posted by: Wreckem
I felt this deserved its own thread.

Tucked inside the SCHIP Bill is this little, extremely regressive tax, on cigerettes. As passed by the House, the bill would increase the federal excise tax on cigerettes by $.45 and increase the taxes on cigars by 200%.

This is an extremely regressive tax, that will HURT the poor, who are vast majority of those who smoke. Some places in the country will be over $9 a pack as a result. Cigerettes are already the MOST taxed item in the country, when is enough, enough?

And no I don't smoke, but this type of tax is going to hurt the "working poor" as Dave likes to call them, more than anyone else. Its also highly discriminatory and IMHO just a bad idea offered up by the democrats.

It seems the the democrats have a penchent for adding tax increases to unrelated bills as of late(the farm bill and schip bills both have tax increases tucked away in them). For those who don't know the democrats managed to get a tax increase on foriegn companies operating and employing americans in the United States. And people say we have a problem with unempolyment, obviously the Democrats dont think so since they decided to increase the tax on foreign companies employing americans in the United States.

We have a government budget that is way, way out of wack due to your beloved GWB.

Far as I'm concerned increase this tax as high as possible. At a bare minimum, the governement's tax revenues from tobacco should-at a minimum-cover all the expenses we, the public, will have to pick up caused by tobacco. Health care is outrageously expensive in the USA and tobacco use contributes mightly to the "demand" (or more accurately, the need) for such increased levels of health care.

I don't agree with Shivetya that a ban of cigarettes is called for. It clearly won't work-look at Prohibition.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Originally posted by: rpanic
Lung cancer killed the three of my grandparents that smoked, in a slow agonizingly painful death. Tax the crap out of it.

I'm sorry to hear your grandparents were stupid, and sadly it appears to be genetic. Unless someone forced your grandparents to smoke, they chose their own fate.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
I wasn't aware of candy causing cancer.

No, but if you eat $9 worth of a candy a day you're going to end up with diabetes and heart disease.

Got any more bright comments, moron?
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Originally posted by: rpanic
Lung cancer killed the three of my grandparents that smoked, in a slow agonizingly painful death. Tax the crap out of it.

I'm sorry to hear your grandparents were stupid, and sadly it appears to be genetic.

you do know that odds are when his grandparents started smokeing they had DOCTORS saying it was safe and improve health?

 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Originally posted by: Shivetya
The government needs to ban cigarettes.

Nothing like freedom, eh comrade?


Originally posted by: BoberFett
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
I wasn't aware of candy causing cancer.

No, but if you eat $9 worth of a candy a day you're going to end up with diabetes and heart disease.

Got any more bright comments, moron?

Of course I do. You should know better.

You honestly believe that if cigarettes were invented now that the FDA would allow them to be unleahed on the general public???
 

imported_Shivetya

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2005
2,978
1
0
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Originally posted by: Shivetya
The government needs to ban cigarettes.

Nothing like freedom, eh comrade?

yup... the need to ban them. Cigarettes are a government approved and generate more money for the government than those who produce them. As such the government either needs to ban them outright or remove the taxes from them. I only propose banning because government officials are effing hypocrits when it comes to smoking and taxation

I am very willing to support a $3+ a pack tax on them.


 

imported_Shivetya

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2005
2,978
1
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Maybe Dems wouldn't have to tack on such a good tax if Republicans weren't owned by the big Tabacco Corporations.
Edited by request


you mean Republicans works on Gore's family's tobacco farms? Say it ain't so!

 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,717
2
0
While I do endorse individual responsibility and increased taxes on products where people are addicted is indeed taking advantage of them; smoking is a major health risk. In Canada where healthcare is administered to all for little to no cost, I find it ridiculous that my tax dollars are spent on those who make poor life choices. At the same time, this increase in tax is likely to make up for declining revenues from sales of the product itself; purely tax revenue driven; that's usually the case when this happens. What I advocate is taxation of the product and use the revenue to invest directly into anti-smoking campaigns, non-profit help groups, nicotine supplements, and the like. That way government doesn't use it as an excuse to get more tax revenue and people are given the means to quit instead of paying the premium prices for the product.
 

jandrews

Golden Member
Aug 3, 2007
1,313
0
0
Originally posted by: Stunt
While I do endorse individual responsibility and increased taxes on products where people are addicted is indeed taking advantage of them; smoking is a major health risk. In Canada where healthcare is administered to all for little to no cost, I find it ridiculous that my tax dollars are spent on those who make poor life choices. At the same time, this increase in tax is likely to make up for declining revenues from sales of the product itself; purely tax revenue driven; that's usually the case when this happens. What I advocate is taxation of the product and use the revenue to invest directly into anti-smoking campaigns, non-profit help groups, nicotine supplements, and the like. That way government doesn't use it as an excuse to get more tax revenue and people are given the means to quit instead of paying the premium prices for the product.

The current amount of money gained from taxing of tobacco products is far greater than the amount cost via smokers (not to mention a good percentage of smokers never develop lung cancer). Besides, when the taxes are recouped we all know they arent going to spend it towards healthcare.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,333
136
My concern is the government getting addicted to all this tobacco money.
 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,742
569
126
Originally posted by: compuwiz1
Everybody has a habit, or affinity toward something. Some people enjoy a smoke, some enjoy a candy bar, some enjoy a drink, and some enjoy a beautiful hooker. Tax them all, or tax none of them.

Very discriminatory bullshit, IMO.

The the health arguements are very valid, but only when the US is paying for all my medical insurance and hospitalization costs, would I support these lame taxes. :|

Don't poor people get some kind of state/government sponsered health care through medicare or something?
 

Toastedlightly

Diamond Member
Aug 7, 2004
7,213
6
81
Originally posted by: Shivetya
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Originally posted by: Shivetya
The government needs to ban cigarettes.

Nothing like freedom, eh comrade?

yup... the need to ban them. Cigarettes are a government approved and generate more money for the government than those who produce them. As such the government either needs to ban them outright or remove the taxes from them. I only propose banning because government officials are effing hypocrits when it comes to smoking and taxation

I am very willing to support a $3+ a pack tax on them.

Do you smoke them? Why do you think we should tax the minority of smokers?
 

jandrews

Golden Member
Aug 3, 2007
1,313
0
0
Originally posted by: Toastedlightly
Originally posted by: Shivetya
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Originally posted by: Shivetya
The government needs to ban cigarettes.

Nothing like freedom, eh comrade?

yup... the need to ban them. Cigarettes are a government approved and generate more money for the government than those who produce them. As such the government either needs to ban them outright or remove the taxes from them. I only propose banning because government officials are effing hypocrits when it comes to smoking and taxation

I am very willing to support a $3+ a pack tax on them.

Do you smoke them? Why do you think we should tax the minority of smokers?
just as everything else in this country, if it doesnt apply to the person then they want it taxed.

 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Originally posted by: Wreckem

-snip-

For those who don't know the democrats managed to get a tax increase on foriegn companies operating and employing americans in the United States.

Whow. The above part is beyond stupid. So the Dem complain about US companies outsourcing our jobs, then turn and try to kill a benefit to us by detering foreign companies from *insourcing* jobs to us? How f'ing retarded.

Dave, why do the Democrats hate America?

I hope GWB vetos this piece of crap tax increase. Is this what we can expect come Nov '08?

Fern
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Good. Maybe they'll quit and not use public money for as much health related problems.

problem with that. tax means money to the government to spend. if you raise the tax high enough where people start to quit or it creates a blackmarket and it will that tax money the government is just as addicted to will look in other areas to keep that money coming in.
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
Originally posted by: Shivetya
The government needs to ban cigarettes.

I 100% agree with this. I guess that makes me a stupid, comrade, moron (Nice trifecta up there BoberFett, well played).
 
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