Federal Exise Tax on Cigerettes and Cigars

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Hacp
Small government, deregulation, social spending cuts, big military, follow the American way or else social attitude.

So you would prefer a massive nanny-government, with a tiny military, that micromanages every aspect of our lives through excessive regulation? wow.. ok.. nevermind.. you were right.. you're much further to the left than "liberal" would adequately describe!

scary.

 

[Hacp]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Hacp

So basically you are against everything that this country was founded on. Well, except for "big military", but that came about because of necessity.

You mean no taxation without representation and civil liberties? I never said I wasn't for those ideals.

No, small government, less government intrusion into our lives (less regulation), and less social spending....If they were for any of this, they would have formed a large government with high taxes and huge welfare programs. You are certainly entitled to your views and I'm not criticizing you for believing the way that you do, but if you think that those views are in line with the founding principles of this country you are wrong.

The country was founded on no taxation without representation and civil liberties. The government they initially founded was full of faults, and eventually failed.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: rpanic

Vic you are so full of crap.

http://www.txtwriter.com/Onsci...es/smokingcancer2.html

http://www.mrc.ac.uk/YourHealt...very/Smoking/MRC003518


First the medical and scientific community did not know that much about the connections between cancer and smoking before the 50s. The first report from the US Surgeon General about smoking and lung cancer didn?t even come out till 1964.
I don?t think so many people back then would have been smoking if they knew what we know now.

And because I know you like charts Vic you can see how the publics view changed

http://www.cancer.org/common/i...leanAirLawsGraphic.JPG

As far as the OP making it illegal that would be dumb because we would just be handing the business over to criminals. Tax it enough so it?s cheaper on average than the black-market.

And........ your grandparents quit smoking in 1964, right?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: rpanic

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: rpanic

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: rpanic
Lung cancer killed the three of my grandparents that smoked, in a slow agonizingly painful death. Tax the crap out of it.

I'm sorry to hear your grandparents were stupid, and sadly it appears to be genetic.

you do know that odds are when his grandparents started smokeing they had DOCTORS saying it was safe and improve health?

I?m sure he was to stupid to think of that. Everyone smoked back then, nobody knew that they were going to get cancer. Or for that matter how addictive they were.

Myth. References to cigarettes as "cancer sticks" and "coffin nails" can be found in popular media dating back to the 1880s.

Vic you are so full of crap.

http://www.txtwriter.com/Onsci...es/smokingcancer2.html

http://www.mrc.ac.uk/YourHealt...very/Smoking/MRC003518


First the medical and scientific community did not know that much about the connections between cancer and smoking before the 50s. The first report from the US Surgeon General about smoking and lung cancer didn?t even come out till 1964.
I don?t think so many people back then would have been smoking if they knew what we know now.

And because I know you like charts Vic you can see how the publics view changed

http://www.cancer.org/common/i...leanAirLawsGraphic.JPG

As far as the OP making it illegal that would be dumb because we would just be handing the business over to criminals. Tax it enough so it?s cheaper on average than the black-market.

How do you explain this then?

There was huge movement to outlaw tobacco in the late 1800's that eventually got squelched by the rise of Hollywood, which glamourized smoking in its movie every chance it got. That's all historical fact. I suggest you look into it.
What you linked is just that tide turning back around in the latter 1900s.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Vic
Worse yet is that black markets exist in a complete regulatory vacuum, escalating crime while removing consumer safeguards.

Consumer safeguards for cigarettes??? :shocked:

This is off the wall even for you.

Dave, I'm sure you realize that despite their harmful effects, cigarettes are regulated. They can and will get worse if everything is driven underground.

You call regulated for the money a consumer safeguard? :roll:

If it was regulated solely for money, Dave, there'd be manure in them instead of tobacco.

 

[umbrella39]

Having been addicted to both MJ and cigarettes in my lifetime here is my take:

MJ being illegal has never once stopped me from getting in my car to drive 10-30 miles to buy it and transport it back to my house. Very easy to hide small quantities and the buzz was worth the risk. If cigarettes were illegal, I would not have done any such thing.

Personally and this is just my humble opinion, I think that more than half the smokers in this country would breathe a sigh of relief (no pun intended) if cigarettes were banned tomorrow, it would be just the thing that they needed to finally get them to quit. Imagine the impact on health care if that were to happen. Hell, I'd probably be out of a job.

 

[BoberFett]

umbrella39

That's what makes you a modern American liberal. You believe people are so weak that they can't make the right decision and rely solely on the nanny state to tell them how to act. Your kind sickens me as much as Republicans sicken you.

 

[Rustler]

While we are at it lets ban,

LIQUOR
FAST FOOD
VIOLENT TV
GASOLINE
AND ANY OTHER QUESTIONABLE ITEMS DEEMED DANGEROUS TO THE PUBLIC.

That way the GOVERNMENT can decide what is good for us, and we can live long lives in our gilded cages.


FOR YOUR READING ENJOYMENT I AM A NON SMOKER.

 

[rpanic]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: rpanic

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: rpanic

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: rpanic
Lung cancer killed the three of my grandparents that smoked, in a slow agonizingly painful death. Tax the crap out of it.

I'm sorry to hear your grandparents were stupid, and sadly it appears to be genetic.

you do know that odds are when his grandparents started smokeing they had DOCTORS saying it was safe and improve health?

I?m sure he was to stupid to think of that. Everyone smoked back then, nobody knew that they were going to get cancer. Or for that matter how addictive they were.

Myth. References to cigarettes as "cancer sticks" and "coffin nails" can be found in popular media dating back to the 1880s.

Vic you are so full of crap.

http://www.txtwriter.com/Onsci...es/smokingcancer2.html

http://www.mrc.ac.uk/YourHealt...very/Smoking/MRC003518


First the medical and scientific community did not know that much about the connections between cancer and smoking before the 50s. The first report from the US Surgeon General about smoking and lung cancer didn?t even come out till 1964.
I don?t think so many people back then would have been smoking if they knew what we know now.

And because I know you like charts Vic you can see how the publics view changed

http://www.cancer.org/common/i...leanAirLawsGraphic.JPG

As far as the OP making it illegal that would be dumb because we would just be handing the business over to criminals. Tax it enough so it?s cheaper on average than the black-market.

How do you explain this then?

There was huge movement to outlaw tobacco in the late 1800's that eventually got squelched by the rise of Hollywood, which glamourized smoking in its movie every chance it got. That's all historical fact. I suggest you look into it.
What you linked is just that tide turning back around in the latter 1900s.

Your page still says ?During the 1930s-1950s, medical research associated smoking with lung cancer, bronchitis, emphysema, and coronary heart disease.? Which is what I was talking about because that what killed my grandparents they didn?t know everthing about smoking when they were growing up. And then there wasnt a big push to get people to stop untill 1964. Back in the 1800s it was just know that it was unhealthy in general, but not causing cancer.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
umbrella39

That's what makes you a modern American liberal. You believe people are so weak that they can't make the right decision and rely solely on the nanny state to tell them how to act. Your kind sickens me as much as Republicans sicken you.

Republicans don't sicken me. Stupid assholes do regardless of their party affiliation.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: BoberFett
umbrella39

That's what makes you a modern American liberal. You believe people are so weak that they can't make the right decision and rely solely on the nanny state to tell them how to act. Your kind sickens me as much as Republicans sicken you.

Right back ya', wannabe mini-dictator.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Vic
Worse yet is that black markets exist in a complete regulatory vacuum, escalating crime while removing consumer safeguards.

Consumer safeguards for cigarettes??? :shocked:

This is off the wall even for you.

Dave, I'm sure you realize that despite their harmful effects, cigarettes are regulated. They can and will get worse if everything is driven underground.

You call regulated for the money a consumer safeguard? :roll:

If it was regulated solely for money, Dave, there'd be manure in them instead of tobacco.

As a matter of fact. I can't say about manure specifically but I would not be surprised.

I do know they put all kinds of crap filler in such as catnip.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: BoberFett
umbrella39

That's what makes you a modern American liberal. You believe people are so weak that they can't make the right decision and rely solely on the nanny state to tell them how to act. Your kind sickens me as much as Republicans sicken you.

Right back ya', wannabe mini-dictator.

Nope, just a respiratory therapist who has to deal with end result of the worst addiction to ever plague our planet. Yeah, wanting to see people stop smoking at any cost makes me a bad person. You are a retard. What do you do other than fluffer?

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: umbrella39
Nope, just a respiratory therapist who has to deal with end result of the worst addiction to ever plague our planet. Yeah, wanting to see people stop smoking at any cost makes me a bad person. You are a retard. What do you do other than fluffer?

Wanting to help people makes you a good person.

Using the force of government to prevent people from doing what they choose to their own bodies makes you a bad person.

You're just like the pro-lifers, only you can't see it. You're blinded by your partisan zealotry.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: umbrella39
Nope, just a respiratory therapist who has to deal with end result of the worst addiction to ever plague our planet. Yeah, wanting to see people stop smoking at any cost makes me a bad person. You are a retard. What do you do other than fluffer?

Wanting to help people makes you a good person.

Using the force of government to prevent people from doing what they choose to their own bodies makes you a bad person.

You're just like the pro-lifers, only you can't see it. You're blinded by your partisan zealotry.

This really has nothing to do with my party affiliation as when I was smoking and before I was an RT I felt the same way you do about this ONE issue. My profession changed my way of thinking about smoking, not my party.

 

[compuwiz1]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: yllus
*shrugs* Ban or tax away. Won't help. People I know up here do runs to the native reserves and buy them by the carton for pretty cheap.

I'm okay with this just as long as the pro-ban people are also in favour of banning alcohol and keeping marijuana illegal. Well, no, I'm not okay with it but it's amusing to see justifications of the hypocrisy pop up.

Americans are quite the masters in hypocrisy and have gotten much better at it the last seven years.

To fully understand this, one only needs to look as far as the threads you start....you know the ones with a separate engine installed to create the spin factor?

I think Dave works for Fox.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: umbrella39
Nope, just a respiratory therapist who has to deal with end result of the worst addiction to ever plague our planet. Yeah, wanting to see people stop smoking at any cost makes me a bad person. You are a retard. What do you do other than fluffer?

Wanting to help people makes you a good person.

Using the force of government to prevent people from doing what they choose to their own bodies makes you a bad person.

You're just like the pro-lifers, only you can't see it. You're blinded by your partisan zealotry.

They are totally opposite.

So according to you I could come out with a lethal product tomorrow but as long as people want it, it's perfectly OK?

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: palehorse74
The irony is that the tax revenue required to fund the SCHIP would itself require roughly 24 million new smokers to do so.

I wanted to repost this because everyone seems to have missed or ignored this key point.

isn't that what GOVERNMENT schools are for? To make more smokers?

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: umbrella39
Nope, just a respiratory therapist who has to deal with end result of the worst addiction to ever plague our planet. Yeah, wanting to see people stop smoking at any cost makes me a bad person. You are a retard. What do you do other than fluffer?

Wanting to help people makes you a good person.

Using the force of government to prevent people from doing what they choose to their own bodies makes you a bad person.

You're just like the pro-lifers, only you can't see it. You're blinded by your partisan zealotry.

They are totally opposite.

Only to a fool like you who lacks any ability to think critically.

So according to you I could come out with a lethal product tomorrow but as long as people want it, it's perfectly OK?

Yep, it is perfectly OK. Why do you want to tell women what they can do with their own bodies? Why do you hate women? Why do you hate freedom?

 

[umbrella39]

It seems hypocritical of any government to tell me it is OK to kill myself smoking cigarettes but it is not OK to kill myself smoking pot.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: umbrella39
It seems hypocritical of any government to tell me it is OK to kill myself smoking cigarettes but it is not OK to kill myself smoking pot.

Well you get credit for that at least. Many people can't spot that obvious hypocrisy. They've bought into the propaganda from one side or the other.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: umbrella39
It seems hypocritical of any government to tell me it is OK to kill myself smoking cigarettes but it is not OK to kill myself smoking pot.

Pot is banned because hemp is banned. You can grow hemp without growing put, but not vise versa.

Way back win, the timber, cotton, and paper industries lobbied to make pot illegal. While these industries arent as powerful as they used to be lobbying wise, they are still powerful enough to keep hemp/pot illegal. And yes hemp is still illegal under federal law, even commerical hemp. IT doesnt matter if 15 states have legalized it.

 

[GattoDiChimica]

I'm thrilled that the big tobacco lobby didn't get its way. Increasing the tax on cigarettes can only help this country. It could possibly discourage people to smoke. If they continue, however, the tax funds could help offset the costs of healthcare for all those who die due to tobacco usage.

 

[Harvey]

I truly hate the tobacco companies. I think every tobacco exec for the last fifty years should be tried for crimes against humanity for the killer products they continue to market. I watched those lying assholes raise their hands before Congress and swear that tobacco was not addictive or carcinogenic.

If those lying FIG PUCKERS believed 1% of the saccharine crap they put in their commercials about helping to stop kids from smoking, or any of their other BS, they'd simply stop manufacturing tobacco products. You can get a better idea of their true motives and intentions from these remarks by Louis C. Camilleri, Altria's chairman and chief executive officer at their 2004 annual shareholders meeting:

All in all, we had a solid first quarter that met our expectations. PM USA had a strong quarter with robust retail share growth, driven by Marlboro. Philip Morris International (PMI) delivered market share gains in many top markets, although total volume growth was adversely impacted by declines in France, Germany and Italy. Kraft is making investments to improve volume and share trends -- and its Sustainable Growth Plan is on track.

A few years ago, California passed an initiatiative that is one of the strongest anti-smoking laws in the country. Despite the tobacco lobby spending a record amount for a private interest to defeat this initiative, it passed by a record margin of 80% - 20% margin. In the very next session of the state legislature, our elected representatives in the State Assembly passed a bill to overturn that initiative. Fortunately, the media stink that followed caused the State Senate to think better of the idea and kill it. I still have to wonder how much money it takes to get over half of a state legilative body to overturn a law passed by 80% of the voters.

To hide the association with their other products, they now call the parent company, Altria. From their site

Marketing Excellence and Innovation

Philip Morris International?s brand portfolio includes seven of the top 20 international brands, including Marlboro, which has been the best-selling international cigarette brand since 1972, and L&M, which is now the No. 3 brand in the world over the last decade. Other

brands include Philip Morris, Chesterfield, Bond Street, Lark and Parliament.

Can you say lying, two faced mofos, boys and girls? :|

If you don't smoke, your buying decisions about tobacco are irrelevant to them. However, you, and those with whom you share the info, below, can have an effect by boycotting tobacco-owned food products, depriving them of income from those sources.

Here's a list from Philip Morris' Altria/Kraft Foods site:

Altoids mints
Athenos Cheeses
Baker's Chocolate and Coconut
Breakstone's Sour Cream, Cottage Cheese, etc.
Breyer's Ice Cream, Yogurt, etc.
Bull's-Eye barbecue and grilling sauces
California Pizza Kitchen pizza
Callard & Bowser Toffees
Calumet Baking Powder
Campbell Soups
Capri Sun
Churny Cheeses
Claussen Pickles
Comet Cups Icecream Cones
Cool Whip
Country Time (pseudo) Lemonade (They really should call this a kit, instead of a mix.)
Cracker Barrel cheeses
CremeSavers
Crystal Light
D-Zerta
Di Giorno Italian foods
Easy Cheese Process Cheese Spread
General Foods (all products)
Good Seasons Salad Dressing Mixes
Grey Poupon
Handi-Snacks
Harvest Moon cheeses
Hoffman's cheeses
Jack's Pizza
Jello
Jet-Puffed
Knudsen dairy products
Kool-Aid
Kool Stuf Toaster Pastries
Kraft Foods
La Vie De La Vosgienne candies
Life Savers
Light n' Lively cottage cheese
Louis Rich lunch meats
Lunchables
Maxwell House Coffee
Milk-Bone Dog Biscuits
Milka L'il Scoops
Miller Beer
Minute Rice
Mirácoli pasta
Nabisco products
Oscar Meyer
Oven Fry Coatings
Polly-O Cheeses
Post Cereals
Ragu Sauces, etc.
Sanka Coffee
Sather's Candies
Sauceworks
Sealtest dairy products
Seven Seas Salad Dressings
Shake 'N Bake
Starbucks coffees (Packaged products in stores)
Stove Top Stuffings, etc.
Taco Bell dinner kits, Salsa, etc.
Tang
Temp-tee cream cheese
Terry's candies
Toblerone and Tobler Candies
Tombstone Pizza (appropriate, don't ya think?) :roll:
Trolli Candies
Woody's Cold Pack Cheese
Yuban Coffee

I've lost far too many friends in far too short a time to tobacco related illnesses. And before any of you children go off on me about my friends making their own choices, remember, they target their ads at kids. I'm 65, and when my friends and I were kids, there were no warnings on cigarette packs. However, there were lots of ads on radio and TV glamorizing smoking, including ads that said strange things like, more doctors recommend one brand over another.

They still target kids.

Death to the tobacco murderers! :| :| :|

 

[glugglug]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

You honestly believe that if cigarettes were invented now that the FDA would allow them to be unleahed on the general public???

I sure as hell do! The FDA hasn't given a crap about protecting the public for several decades at least. And I'm sure they'd get some hefty kickbacks for the approval.

This is one of the few taxes I am all for though. Actually, I firmly believe tobacco should be criminalized and marijuana legalized.