News Federal judge rules Affordable Care Act is unconstitutional

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Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,034
2,613
136
Stock market probably won't like it either.
Also we've seen the GOP alternative healthcare plan. They couldn't get it passed because it was awful.
 
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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,865
34,813
136
Most of the less partisan conservative reaction I see is agreement that the decision is, legally, hyper stupid and not long for this world.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
It's likely too late for any substantial changes to happen in 2019. The ACA was something that never could be more than a stopgap insurance scheme which was my beef. "Medicare for all" is pretty much the same in the sense that the underlying infrastructure remains and it will be alway a politics over medicine with an onerous bureaucracy. There are several possible outcomes if something is undertaken. First is the "Medicare for all", something which will take more effort than people think because there are all sorth of legal challenges ahead that will make the ACA seem like a welcome home party for a family hero.

Assuming that comes through then it will be medicine by lawful regulation in an American bureaucracy, a Pentagon of healthcare. I've dealt with the mechanics of management for decades so this isn't an armchair practioner speaking.

But assuming that it eventually is passed, a government program will still increase in costs because that's the nature of progress. Technology costs if it means improvement. So we could decide that this is the perpetual state of care with very occasional changes and more gradual increased. The number of practitioners will decrease through attrition. The system will be less available while being more accessable.

Then there's the old way to what we had. Unacceptable at so many levels.

In fact I argue that there is no possible satisfactory approach at the moment, but there can be and maybe someone like AOC can understand if she has an opportunity to be educated.

There are answers but work needs to be done as a "system" assembled of broken parts our medical infrastructure is the last thing to happen.

I'll get into that later. We can have better, but it requires outside of the box, non-faith based solutions which means apolitical ones, but based on science and technical fixes by those who have expertise.
 
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Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,642
5,329
136
I'd like to see the states take this as an opportunity to build their own health care systems.
The ACA both helped and hurt me. My health care costs more than doubled under the ACA, but the preexisting conditions rule probably kept me from not having coverage at all.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,498
136
I'd like to see the states take this as an opportunity to build their own health care systems.
The ACA both helped and hurt me. My health care costs more than doubled under the ACA, but the preexisting conditions rule probably kept me from not having coverage at all.

Trust me, you don’t want this ruling upheld. The legal theory underpinning it is so insane it would destabilize the entire US legal system.

Basically it’s saying that congress can add an unconstitutional amendment to a past law and then have the whole thing struck down because of it. It’s basically asking the courts to take over and repeal the law that Congress didn’t want to. Judicial activism at its worst.
 

UberNeuman

Lifer
Nov 4, 1999
16,937
3,087
126
I'd like to see the states take this as an opportunity to build their own health care systems.
The ACA both helped and hurt me. My health care costs more than doubled under the ACA, but the preexisting conditions rule probably kept me from not having coverage at all.


Don’t worry. You’ll get exactly what’s coming to you.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,218
4,446
136
But this argument is the height of stupidity, because it was congress who changed the mandatory enrollment while not changing any other part of the law, so it is in fact exactly now as congress intended,, an update of what it intended before.

But congress's intent on changing it was so that the courts could strike it down, so in that regard the court correctly interpreted Congress's intent.

Sure, it requires a crazy circular logic to work, but this is the GOP.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,498
136
Everyone should realize this is a district court opinion that is overwhelmingly likely to go nowhere. It’s barely worth discussing.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,726
2,501
126
Admittedly I have not read the decision and admittedly news reports of legal decisions are frequently wrong, but from the reports I've read this judge violated a central concept of judicial review as the basis for his decision. Apparently finding that the subsequent GOP amendment was what causes the law to be unconstitutional he should have struck down that change as unconstitutional, not the whole law.

A very weak decision based upon extremely dubious legal analysis.

This judge is apparently one of those activist judges the righties used to rail against all the time.

OTOH I have a personal FYGM moment, for I have aged into the Medicare system-which from my limited view is vastly superior and much cheaper than the ACA-which was vastly superior to the so-called private insurance situation I had before then. Back then, when I was in my fifties the insurers where seriously considering declaring a preexisting condition (therefore no coverage) because of a routine tonsillectomy I had in first grade (as did nearly every kid in that era). My private insurance for two healthy adults, with a fifty page application and exclusions for preexisting conditions and huge deductibles (approximately $15,000 as I recall) was our single largest monthly expense, even dwarfing the mortgage. That apparently is the days teabaggers and the GOP are looking back on fondly.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,289
28,144
136
Republican voters are so stupid they lap up promises by their representatives to save pre-existing condition yet these same pols are participating in a lawsuit to end those pre-existing protections.

Maroons
 
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JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
It's likely too late for any substantial changes to happen in 2019. The ACA was something that never could be more than a stopgap insurance scheme which was my beef. "Medicare for all" is pretty much the same in the sense that the underlying infrastructure remains and it will be alway a politics over medicine with an onerous bureaucracy. There are several possible outcomes if something is undertaken. First is the "Medicare for all", something which will take more effort than people think because there are all sorth of legal challenges ahead that will make the ACA seem like a welcome home party for a family hero.

Assuming that comes through then it will be medicine by lawful regulation in an American bureaucracy, a Pentagon of healthcare. I've dealt with the mechanics of management for decades so this isn't an armchair practioner speaking.

But assuming that it eventually is passed, a government program will still increase in costs because that's the nature of progress. Technology costs if it means improvement. So we could decide that this is the perpetual state of care with very occasional changes and more gradual increased. The number of practitioners will decrease through attrition. The system will be less available while being more accessable.

Then there's the old way to what we had. Unacceptable at so many levels.

In fact I argue that there is no possible satisfactory approach at the moment, but there can be and maybe someone like AOC can understand if she has an opportunity to be educated.

There are answers but work needs to be done as a "system" assembled of broken parts our medical infrastructure is the last thing to happen.

I'll get into that later. We can have better, but it requires outside of the box, non-faith based solutions which means apolitical ones, but based on science and technical fixes by those who have expertise.

Oh we remember you hated it. Worried about your jerb in healthcare. Selfish bitch.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
Oh we remember you hated it. Worried about your jerb in healthcare. Selfish bitch.

Ah, you were the idiot who got everything wrong. Tell us again what happens if you drive people out of care? You were very keen on doing that by your "approach"
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
Ah, you were the idiot who got everything wrong. Tell us again what happens if you drive people out of care? You were very keen on doing that by your "approach"

What are you talking about? You were worried too many people would need care and you would have to work hard. What did I get wrong exactly?
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
What are you talking about? You were worried too many people would need care and you would have to work hard. What did I get wrong exactly?

You missed everything then. If you haven't sufficient support then the standard of care falls. "Working hard" is a given. That was about 5 percent of what was going on. Things are far more complex but there's not much sense discussing the matter if you know it all so adios.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
You missed everything then. If you haven't sufficient support then the standard of care falls. "Working hard" is a given. That was about 5 percent of what was going on. Things are far more complex but there's not much sense discussing the matter if you know it all so adios.
Waaaaah. Too many people will need care if we let everyone have insurance. Lol. That was your position.
 
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dawp

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
11,345
2,705
136
You missed everything then. If you haven't sufficient support then the standard of care falls. "Working hard" is a given. That was about 5 percent of what was going on. Things are far more complex but there's not much sense discussing the matter if you know it all so adios.
it isn't 'hard work', it's the chronic under staffing that affects care for everyone. you can not provide good care if you don't have the people to properly take care the patients.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
it isn't 'hard work', it's the chronic under staffing that affects care for everyone. you can not provide good care if you don't have the people to properly take care the patients.

We will go to Medicare for all next. Those who work in the industry won’t like the limits on payments but fuck them. Healthcare is a right not a commodity to get rich with.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
We will go to Medicare for all next. Those who work in the industry won’t like the limits on payments but fuck them. Healthcare is a right not a commodity to get rich with.

There's no problem. If you want people earning low wages (like nurses get rich working 16 hours shifts) then just cut their pay. It's not like intelligent people can't find work in other fields. People who provide care don't get rich as a rule. Some specialists make a lot of money, but on a per hour basis it's not what you wish it were.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
it isn't 'hard work', it's the chronic under staffing that affects care for everyone. you can not provide good care if you don't have the people to properly take care the patients.

Two heart attacks, one I shouldn't have survived according to my cardiologist, both job related. Now I'm out except for the occasional day covering shifts. Best thing ever. But at least one person wants a lower standard of care so I'm good with him getting that.
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,493
3,159
136
Just a minor bump in the road.
Americans like their pre-existings, and if millions lost their healthcare don't think they'd let republicans know in no uncertain way.
Besides, this was a Texas judge, probably paid off by one of Trump's lawyers, so I wouldn't worry.
 

Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
11,578
1,741
126
This is scary because a significant amount of people in the US already have preexisting conditions or will:
Hypertension - 33%
Cancer - 38% (life-time risk)
Diabetes - 9.5%
COPD/Emphysema - 5%
Obesity - 33%
Rheumatoid Arthritis - 3%
Hypothyroid/Hyperthyroid - 12%
Osteoarthritis - 12%


1/2 men will develop some type of cancer in their lifetime.
1/3 women will do the same.

Diabetes is on the rise, and is projected to be 3rd, only behind cancer and heart disease. The healthcare system is America is a tragedy. We are in for some major issues, and no one seems to care. Why should congress care. Healthcare for life. Family members are taken care of so why the rush to fix a broken system? There is no rush. People who voted against Obamacare and have no insurance are delusional. One incident and you are f*cked! It could be an unexpected illness or a car wreck. Even people with health coverage are at a disadvantage, unless you are wealthy. Wealth= Awesome coverage. I learned this first hand. My unlce who had Parkinson's disease was a multimillionaire. He also had the best coverage money could buy. He had a nurse on duty 24/7. He donated $50k to a local hospital. His name is up on the plaque of donors. Of course, he was treated as good as anyone could be treated. The best. He had messages 3 times a day. He had a chef who cooked food for him 2-3X a week. A nanny who cooked meals, and who cleaned up the house. I'd take him to Whole Foods 3X a week. All organic. Only the best. Also, most of this was out of pocket. I'd see his wife write a check for $3k like it was nothing. She did this often too.

So, unless you have that kind of cash you are going to be in a bad shape. It's why I see beef and beer benefits all the time in my area for cancer/heart disease patients. They don't have the money to cover their expenses. Insurance only covers a fraction of the cost. Those bills can rack up very quickly,. And, they aren't going to give you a nurse 24/7. Good luck with that.
 
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ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
37,995
18,344
146
I'd like to see the states take this as an opportunity to build their own health care systems.
The ACA both helped and hurt me. My health care costs more than doubled under the ACA, but the preexisting conditions rule probably kept me from not having coverage at all.

Lol....they've always had the opportunity, just don't care to. I live in MA, universal healthcare here since '04, set in place by Romney.
 
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