News Federal judge rules Affordable Care Act is unconstitutional

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lopri

Elite Member
Jul 27, 2002
13,211
597
126
I’m not against the concept of a single payer system or universal healthcare or whatnot. I am against he ACA though because it isnt making healthcare affordable at all. Price keep going up and there’s no mechanism in there to address that at all.

I’d advocate for government sponsored healthcare assuming:
  • it wasn’t tied to your job at all, the idea that our employers who (unless we work in the insurance industry) aren’t in the business of managing healthcare but have been tasked with doing it anyways
  • we tax junk food. Not sure of the mechanism but we’ve been to the moon I’m sure we can do this. Those proceeds have to go towards the national healthcare fund. It’ll cut down on consumption of junk
  • Preventative measures are emphasized over reactionary ones. Do away with the fee for service model and focus on outcomes.
  • allow ER's to turn down people. If triage it’s determined they are here for a headache or a cough allow hospitals to deny service and refer them to a walk-in clinic without fear of lawsuits
  • Tort reform. Malpractice suits are necessary but there is certainly room for reform
  • No junk food using snap benefits. Not sure the best way to regulate that but our poor also have the worst eating habits. Raise the amount they recieve each month because fruits and veggies do cost more, but no cookies or soda etc
  • Death panels. Have em. If you don’t like the idea buy private insurance that covers you. Keeping granny alive for another month isn’t worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. I’m not sure how we draw the line here but there needs to be some sense of sanity in healthcare at the end of life.

I’m sure I can come up with plenty others, just a start off the top of my head,

Edit here’s another
  • Legalize marijuana and fund research into medicinal uses for it.
Taxing junk food might take care of SNAP beneficiaries' poor eating habits. No need to punish the poor (twice). "Death Panel" - I do not like that label because it's what insurance companies have today and it won't be different with government-run healthcare. Some treatments will not be covered, and individuals will not be prevented from seeking experimental care.

Other than that I pretty much agree with you.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,914
2,359
126
Remember them losing their collective shit when Michelle Obama had the audacity of wanting kids to eat healthier food?

Then there is the taxing of risky food items, but republicans want them cheap and readily avaiulable to children because Merica.

Republicans acting like they have the country's best interest in mind when it comes to healthcare is a sad, pathetic joke. Any non-partisan who has been paying attention since the ACA struggle knows this.

Sin taxes do not work. Everyone knows this. Take cigarettes for example....
 

lopri

Elite Member
Jul 27, 2002
13,211
597
126
Taxes on tobacco have worked like a charm almost everywhere they were tried. I do not know what you are talking about. Yes, people with disposable income to whom cigarette prices are a chump change will not blink an eye over a few dollars. But for middle-class and low-income household, as well as for minors and young adults, a pack of cigarettes ($15 in NY) is an expensive habit.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,534
13,107
136
Taxes on tobacco have worked like a charm almost everywhere they were tried. I do not know what you are talking about. Yes, people with disposable income to whom cigarette prices are a chump change will not blink an eye over a few dollars. But for middle-class and low-income household, as well as for minors and young adults, a pack of cigarettes ($15 in NY) is an expensive habit.

15 bucks .... for 20 smokes? Holy * * * *'s * *. Thats in excess of double up here in Scandinavia.. (i threw that habit away 10+ years ago, thank god.)
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,805
29,556
146
Sin taxes do not work. Everyone knows this. Take cigarettes for example....

I see that you are stuck on "slow."

...though, it is fair to mention that sin taxes actually don't work from the perspective of the programs and policies that such taxes are intended to fund--meaning, those revenue streams tend to dry up because the tax is, as designed, so damn effective.

so there is that.
 
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DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,020
9
81
Do Republicans not understand how many people will die if ACA is undone. Things like expanded Medicaid is vital. Do they not understand people with cancer will lose their insurance and die without treatment. Do they not care?
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,752
4,562
136
Those that are dependent on care from ACA to survive are probably voting and staying Democrat. Can't vote Democrat though if you're dead.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Do Republicans not understand how many people will die if ACA is undone. Things like expanded Medicaid is vital. Do they not understand people with cancer will lose their insurance and die without treatment. Do they not care?

Fuck them losers. Shoulda been rich. Get a fucking job. Bootstraps, bitches!

And that's kinda why more middle aged conservative white guys are blowing their brains out. They talked that shit until it turned out that they're losers, too.
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,175
5,641
146
Do Republicans not understand how many people will die if ACA is undone. Things like expanded Medicaid is vital. Do they not understand people with cancer will lose their insurance and die without treatment. Do they not care?

They understand, they don't care.
 

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,034
2,613
136
They understand, they don't care.
I think this is generally right. They see people dying as being "their own fault for not being rich enough to get decent health insurance". Health insurance is a privilege, not a right (like owning a car or getting married and etc).

Unfortunately I don't think it's really an ethical viewpoint that is viable.
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,175
5,641
146
I think this is generally right. They see people dying as being "their own fault for not being rich enough to get decent health insurance". Health insurance is a privilege, not a right (like owning a car or getting married and etc).

Unfortunately I don't think it's really an ethical viewpoint that is viable.

I think there's a weird contradiction in thought. They believe that its both because of those peoples' choices (so its their faults), but also its not its complete random chance luck "God's plan" type of stuff (so no amount of regular health care is going to matter, you'll either get cancer or you won't).

A growing one that I see though is a push to "let charity handle it, people should be able to help if they want, but not be forced to" because they somehow believe that would really work. They want to feel righteous and not feel abstracted out (like they feel over taxes). Its like we need to send out cards saying "your tax dollars helped fund healthcare for <insert number> of your fellow Americans" and stuff like that.

The stupid thing that gets me is how many people either use themselves, or know someone close that depends on social welfare programs, but rages against them because they've been duped into believing that there's millions of people on them that don't deserve them (welfare queens, disability fraud, etc).
 
Reactions: Sonikku
Dec 10, 2005
24,416
7,329
136
The Republicans want to bring us back to the bad old days of health insurance, where you could be denied coverage for a variety of unrelated pre-existing conditions (like living), your insurance would have maximum lifetime payout caps, it would be laughably expensive to buy private coverage in the individual market, and when you could find private coverage, it would have gaping holes in coverage that you could drive a truck through as you fall into medical bankruptcy.
 
Reactions: DarthKyrie

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,818
34,757
136
Post this in here instead:

But in the new filing, signed by three Justice Department attorneys, the administration said that the decision of U.S. District Judge Reed O’Connor should be affirmed and the entirety of the ACA should be invalidated.

The government said it planned to file a brief in support of the Texas-led coalition of states pursuing the law’s complete nullification, now that “the United States is not urging that any portion of the district court’s judgment be reversed,” as the filing stated.

“The Department of Justice has determined that the district court’s comprehensive opinion came to the correct conclusion and will support it on appeal,” Kerri Kupec, a spokeswoman for the Justice Department, said in a statement.

If the Justice Department’s position prevails, it would potentially eliminate health care for millions of people and cause disruption across the U.S. health-care system — from removing no-charge preventive services for older Americans on Medicare to voiding the expansion of Medicaid in most states. A court victory would fulfill Republican promises to undo a prized domestic accomplishment of the previous administration but leave no substitute in place.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...s-affordable-care-act/?utm_term=.c0d3be85bffa

Kind of a deranged risk to run just because you still hate Obama after the GOP got killed in the midterms in no small part thanks to healthcare. I mean if Trump actually got his way on this the impact would be a political nuke detonating on the party in time for 2020. It would be the ultimate act of self destructive political revenge from people who apparently can't see anything else.
 
Reactions: DarthKyrie

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,771
49,426
136
Post this in here instead:



https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...s-affordable-care-act/?utm_term=.c0d3be85bffa

Kind of a deranged risk to run just because you still hate Obama after the GOP got killed in the midterms in no small part thanks to healthcare. I mean if Trump actually got his way on this the impact would be a political nuke detonating on the party in time for 2020. It would be the ultimate act of self destructive political revenge from people who apparently can't see anything else.

It’s electorally insane and from a good governance standpoint absolutely bonkers.

This ruling should have no chance of standing and this is just embarrassing virtue signaling by conservatives.

I don’t think I’m misrepresenting the reasoning at all when I say that it basically says this:

1) since the individual mandate no longer imposes a cost it’s not a tax, therefore it is unconstitutional. It is not explained how something that explicitly imposes no cost on people is an unconstitutional burden.

2) Congress did not intend the law to work without a mandate therefore the whole law must go. This logic is...odd... considering that’s exactly what Congress did when it eliminated the mandate.

3) The judge tries to get around this by declaring that it’s the intent of Congress in 2010 that matters when they passed the statute and not the intent of Congress in 2018 when they made the change he says matters. It should be immediately obvious how insane that reasoning is.

If these idiots actually succeed in their lawsuit not only would they be shooting themselves in the foot electorally, they would destabilize future lawmaking by retroactively rendering constitutional laws unconstitutional. It’s shit like this that proves just how big of a lie #bothsides is.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,805
29,556
146
I would love to see Trump's pet Mitch play the good little lapdog and try to argue for and defend this policy against the legions of Americans that gave the GOP a great big FU in 2018.

Yeah, this will play out really well, lol.

We just might get to see the old turtle wet himself in public.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,570
7,631
136
It’s shit like this that proves just how big of a lie #bothsides is.

+ How broken our government is if all you have to do is shop for one ideological extremist, one man, and the healthcare of 315 million people is ruined.

Each individual Judge holds the power of the Constitution in their hands. Elevating them above both elected branches of government. Above both the Congress and President combined. Sure, if the game is played right you can increase that to 9 Judges on the SCOTUS, but how many years is that after the damage is done? And with the partisan divide on the SCOTUS, often it'll still be a single man breaking the deadlock and ruling the nation.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,771
49,426
136
+ How broken our government is if all you have to do is shop for one ideological extremist, one man, and the healthcare of 315 million people is ruined.

Each individual Judge holds the power of the Constitution in their hands. Elevating them above both elected branches of government. Above both the Congress and President combined. Sure, if the game is played right you can increase that to 9 Judges on the SCOTUS, but how many years is that after the damage is done? And with the partisan divide on the SCOTUS, often it'll still be a single man breaking the deadlock and ruling the nation.

I definitely agree with you on SCOTUS and how broken things are overall but fortunately in this case the ruling is stayed and will undoubtedly remain so until final resolution.
 
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