Federal law vs City Ordiance

[yhelothar]

So apparently at my city, there is an ordinance that prohibits parking on the streets from 2AM to 4AM. There is no sign whatsoever designating this ordinance, and the only place where the law is posted that I see is on the city website. However, the city website claims it's posted on all major city entrances.

However according to federal law, signs must be installed in plain view where the regulations apply.
http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/pdfs/millennium/06.14.01/2bndi.pdf
"Regulatory signs shall be installed at or near where the regulations apply. The signs shall clearly indicate the requirements imposed by the regulations and shall be designed and installed to provide adequate visibility and legibility in order to obtain compliance."

I contested the citation with this info and they responded "Signs are properly posted in accordance with the city ordinance."

Well it's obviously not in accordance to federal law, which according to the Supremacy Clause of the United States Constitution, the federal law is the supreme law of the land and triumphs any conflicting state or city laws.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supremacy_Clause

So my current plan of action is to respond with a further appeal with the supremacy clause.

Any other suggestions?

 

[Mike Gayner]

Take photographs of the area around where you were parked to demonstrate the lack of signage.

 

[deadlyapp]

pay the $20 ticket and move on with your life?

 

[Mike Gayner]

pay the $20 ticket and move on with your life?

So you don't have a problem with cities enforcing illegal taxes?

 

[BoT]

both very good suggestions.
get more people together for a class action lawsuit to make it worth it

 

[yhelothar]

Take photographs of the area around where you were parked to demonstrate the lack of signage.

Already sent with original appeal.

 

[Malak]

Absolutely appeal.

 

[Capt Caveman]

You'll lose. There are numerous places including the town I grew up in that do not allow overnight street parking with no signage. As a resident, you need to know you're city/town's rules. No different than having to shovel your sidewalks.

And federal law does not supercede local laws on local roads/streets.

 

[Malak]

You'll lose. There are numerous places including the town I grew up in that do not allow overnight street parking. As a resident, you need to know you're city/town's rules. No different than having to shovel your sidewalks.

I don't shovel my sidewalks and the police are literally right next door.

 

[yhelothar]

And federal law does not supercede local laws on local roads/streets.

Source please.

 

[Capt Caveman]

I don't shovel my sidewalks and the police are literally right next door.

Where do you live? If there is a law, you're just lucky that no one has complained.

 

[Mike Gayner]

You'll lose. There are numerous places including the town I grew up in that do not allow overnight street parking with no signage. As a resident, you need to know you're city/town's rules. No different than having to shovel your sidewalks.

So should visitors also be subject to these illegal penalties, too?

And federal law does not supercede local laws on local roads/streets.

That's gotta be plain bullshit, unless the USA has a pretty fucked up legislative hierarchy.

 

[Malak]

Where do you live? If there is a law, you're just lucky that no one has complained.

Who would complain?

 

[yhelothar]

Where do you live? If there is a law, you're just lucky that no one has complained.

Why would anyone need to complain if the police are next door to see it all the time?

 

[CZroe]

...That's gotta be plain bullshit, unless the USA has a pretty fucked up legislative hierarchy.

Things have gotten completely backwards as time goes forward, but the Fed was never supposed to be able to tell states what to do except in matters that affect other states or national security. Each state was supposed to govern itself. It's supposed to be a "bottom up" system where you have the right to do what you want on your property unless it affects someone else on theirs. From there, you have city, county, state, and federal govenment, each with diminishing powers to control your daily life. Federal laws do apply to everyone but the majority is left unaddressed where states add their own as do counties, cities, and so on.

So, there is no such thing as "fed traffic police." They deal with Federal Interstate highway issues through legislation and Fed DOT. The state level has a state DOT and highway patrol. Then there are county police departments, city police departments, and sometimes even smaller departments ("campus police" or "parking enforcer" for example), each enforcing a more specific set of laws.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Why would anyone need to complain if the police are next door to see it all the time?

B/c it's a low priority to them, so they aren't going to do anything til somebody complains where then they are forced to do something.

Did you just fall off the turnip truck? Oh wait, you're just an emo.

 

[Capt Caveman]

So should visitors also be subject to these illegal penalties, too?



That's gotta be plain bullshit, unless the USA has a pretty fucked up legislative hierarchy.

Why do you post in threads that you know nothing about? If a state has a seat belt law, do you expect signs to be placed on every street in the state? How about speed limit signs, even if the road is only 100 yards long?

Seriously, we don't complain about your laws allowing you to fuck sheep, nor do we care.

Who would complain?

During our last snow storm, the pharmacy down the block from me did not shovel their sidewalk forcing people to walk into a busy street. I called the cops and they made them shovel the sidewalk or be faced with a daily fine til it was completed. The sidewalk got shoveled.

I have no idea where you live but in MA, laws were just recently passed making it easier for people to sue property owners if they injure themselves on sidewalks that weren't properly cleared. Again, based on where you live, the police may not enforce the law til someone files a complaint. Examples could be locals at in the country or suburbs.

 

[CZroe]

Why do you post in threads that you know nothing about? If a state has a seat belt law, do you expect signs to be placed on every street in the state? How about speed limit signs, even if the road is only 100 yards long?

Seriously, we don't complain about your laws allowing you to fuck sheep, nor do we care.

Umm, I expect and regularly see seat belt notices on all major highways and interstates in states that require it. They usually say "It's the law!"

 

[Capt Caveman]

Umm, I expect and regularly see seat belt notices on all major highways and interstates in states that require it. They usually say "It's the law!"

In your town/city's streets? On the street where you live? If not, the OP will protest that there was no signage.

 

[Malak]

I have no idea where you live but in MA, laws were just recently passed making it easier for people to sue property owners if they injure themselves on sidewalks that weren't properly cleared. Again, based on where you live, the police may not enforce the law til someone files a complaint. Examples could be locals at in the country or suburbs.

I'd love someone to sue me for getting injured over walking in snow. They'd never get a penny out of me and I'd have a video to post on youtube. I'm not responsible for the weather and no court in the world can change that. Some laws are just stupid.

 

[Capt Caveman]

OP - didn't you ever notice that no one parks on the street in your city late at night? That would have been a big giveaway that there was a law.

 

[Capt Caveman]

I'd love someone to sue me for getting injured over walking in snow. They'd never get a penny out of me and I'd have a video to post on youtube. I'm not responsible for the weather and no court in the world can change that. Some laws are just stupid.

Again, where do you live? You know that when snow melts during the day, it freezes up at night? Well, if you lived in the city, you'd realize how important it is to have cleared sidewalks. Heck, I think in every place I've lived, even the Postal workers won't deliver you the mail unless you've cleared your sidewalk/walkway.

fwiw - here's an article about it in MA, Failure to clear snow could be costly

 

[Malak]

Again, where do you live? You know that when snow melts during the day, it freezes up at night? Well, if you lived in the city, you'd realize how important it is to have cleared sidewalks. Heck, I think in every place I've lived, even the Postal workers won't deliver you the mail unless you've cleared your sidewalk/walkway.

Postal workers around here aren't panzies.

 

[yhelothar]

Did you just fall off the turnip truck? Oh wait, you're just an emo.

lol u mad

I'm still waiting for you to provide source that local laws can supercede federal law. I'm not necessarily doubting you that it's true, but I just want to see the hard evidence that the city is in the right.

 

[Capt Caveman]

lol u mad

I'm still waiting for you to provide source that local laws can supercede federal law. I'm not necessarily doubting you that it's true, but I just want to see the hard evidence that the city is in the right.

Why would I be mad? I'm not the stupid one to not notice that no one parks their cars on the street at night. Nor would I be stupid enough not to know that the police don't enforce all laws all the time. Nor would I put into my OKCupid Profile 'mindfuck' not once but multiple times or post emo pics.

Show me where in your source that any of the signage requirements pertains to city/town local streets/roads which more than likely receive zero federal funding but state funding instead.