Question Feedback - These Good Choices?

[ascendant]

I'm on a VERY tight budget, but I really need to build a new PC. Here is the parts I'm looking at:



Let me know what you think. If there is anything you'd suggest other than what's in this list, please make sure it's not going to be more than this current total. As it is, I'm not even sure I can afford this yet. There's no way I can go any higher, but I mean if there's any parts I could get for a comparable price that would be preferable, I'm all ears. I'd appreciate any feedback you all can give me.

 

[In2Photos]

Post the link to your PCpartpicker list. What is this PC going to be used for?

Do you plan to use the HDD as your boot drive? That's a bad idea! Your new PC will feel old! At least go with a small 2.5" SATA SSD as a boot drive.

Gigabyte had issues with one of their PSUs exploding. Id go with a different brand.

I love the Lian Li 216 case but you can save a few bucks if you want by looking at Montech cases.

 

[manly]

1. An (NVMe) SSD is a must. Prices are still elevated, but they're a bit better than they were just 2 months ago. Get a used 6TB HDD for slow, bulk storage if necessary. In Jan 2023, I bought a used 4TB hard disk drive for $23 just as a backup target.

2. Unless you need Nvidia, AMD will be a better GPU value for your dollars.

https://slickdeals.net/f/17636247-asrock-challenger-pro-radeo-rx-6750-xt-12gb-pci-express-4-0-graphics-video-card-269-99

3. MSI MAG B650 for $140, possible savings on Samsung SSD too:

MSI MAG B650 Tomahawk WIFI (Socket AM5) AMD B650 ATX DDR5 Wi-Fi 6E Motherboard - Black $140

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/msi-mag-b650-tomahawk-wifi-socket-am5-amd-b650-atx-ddr5-wi-fi-6e-motherboard-black/6528249.p/ Plus, you get 25% off a Samsung SSD if you buy a motherboard. Details at ...

slickdeals.net

4. If you're in the U.S. and near Micro Center, they should have an AM5 bundle that could save you some money. This is dependent on store inventory and their bundle deals haven't been great recently.

 

[ascendant]

Post the link to your PCpartpicker list. What is this PC going to be used for?

Do you plan to use the HDD as your boot drive? That's a bad idea! Your new PC will feel old! At least go with a small 2.5" SATA SSD as a boot drive.

Gigabyte had issues with one of their PSUs exploding. Id go with a different brand.

I love the Lian Li 216 case but you can save a few bucks if you want by looking at Montech cases.

To start, here is the link:

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/TWgjdH

As far as what it's going to be used for, the only thing that will be heavy on resources would be gaming. I play Fortnite with my sons, and my current PC gets sluggish and freezes up all the time in it. Other than that, I use it for college work, Mathematica, word docs, LaTeX, surfing the web, all stuff that doesn't use a whole lot of resources. Unfortunately, I can't afford a real nice gaming rig currently, but I really can't wait any longer. With starting college come fall, I figure this would be a good time to have a faster PC as well.

As far as the boot drive, normally I just create a couple different partitions, one for the booting, the other for storage. I'm not sure why I would want a different hard drive entirely for booting? I'm sure there's a good reason, I just don't know why and I'd love to know.

I do have a couple other hard drives currently, although I'm not sure if they're outdated currently:

Hard Drive – Seagate Desktop HDD ST1000DM003 1TB 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5"

Backup Hard Drive - Western Digital Caviar RE WD1600YS 160GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s

Would either of those suffice as a separate boot drive?

As far as Gigabyte having issues with PSU exploding, that's nuts. At the same time, if it was only one single PSU, I would imagine it was something a manufacturer messed up, and I'm not worried about that. If anything, after an incident like that, they should be more careful than ever for potential future lawsuits. But anyway, I appreciate you letting me know, but Gigabyte has always treated me well. I mean by all means, if you have free time to take a look and have some other suggestion of comparable value and performance, I'm all ears. But personally, I'm not worried about that unless it was multiple models and a recent thing that happened.

As far as cases, I'll try to look into Montech. I just don't have enough hours in the day with everything going on right now. As far as a case, I do need one with at least a couple usb ports in the front for peripherals I use (2 different headsets that I switch from, charging various devices, etc., multiple things I would plug and unplug here and there, so front would be ideal).

I would like one with docks accessible for both the 5" and 3" bays, as I have a micro for an SD card reader, and I do like having a DVD drive as well. It looks like a lot of them nowadays no longer have bays in the front? Anyway, I would ideally like at least one of each bay if possible, but I wasn't seeing ones with bays on them.

 

[mikeymikec]

Gigabyte had issues with one of their PSUs exploding. Id go with a different brand.

... then they blamed the reviewer who reported the problem.

 

[ascendant]

1. An (NVMe) SSD is a must. Prices are still elevated, but they're a bit better than they were just 2 months ago. Get a used 6TB HDD for slow, bulk storage if necessary. In Jan 2023, I bought a used 4TB hard disk drive for $23 just as a backup target.

2. Unless you need Nvidia, AMD will be a better GPU value for your dollars.

https://slickdeals.net/f/17636247-asrock-challenger-pro-radeo-rx-6750-xt-12gb-pci-express-4-0-graphics-video-card-269-99

3. MSI MAG B650 for $140, possible savings on Samsung SSD too:

MSI MAG B650 Tomahawk WIFI (Socket AM5) AMD B650 ATX DDR5 Wi-Fi 6E Motherboard - Black $140

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/msi-mag-b650-tomahawk-wifi-socket-am5-amd-b650-atx-ddr5-wi-fi-6e-motherboard-black/6528249.p/ Plus, you get 25% off a Samsung SSD if you buy a motherboard. Details at ...

slickdeals.net

4. If you're in the U.S. and near Micro Center, they should have an AM5 bundle that could save you some money. This is dependent on store inventory and their bundle deals haven't been great recently.

Thanks for the info. A few questions:

1) As far as a NVMe SSD, that is something I'm unfamiliar with. I did take a look on the net (but unfortunately don't have much free time right now). It looks like it's a drive that plugs directly into the PCIe? Interesting. I do like that it would be much faster, so I am interested. I'd just need to make sure the mobo has the room for both the video card and a NVMe SSD. Which size PCIe slot do they use, or does it depend on the one you buy? I would want to make sure I get one that would fit the mobo I get

2) Thanks, I will try to look into that if I have time. I thought it was the reverse, and Nvidia gave you more bang for your buck? I did take a look, and comparing the two, the only difference I see is the core clock is higher in the AMD one, but I already know that's just because of the difference in internal architecture. Can you tell me why you feel the AMD is superior to the Nvidia? The prices on both look comparable.

3.Thanks again. I took your suggestion and swapped the mobo. They seem comparable anyway, so figure might as well.

4. I'm in FL, and unfortunately we don't have any Micro Centers at all in FL. I do appreciate you mentioning it though.

And I mean I might end up going on Newegg or somewhere else to get the best prices. I'm simply using this PCPartsPicker so I can make sure everything will be compatible.

 

[Tech Junky]

NVME drives slide into the M2 sockets and lay flat against the mobo. The benefit is that they are at least 5x faster than a spinning HDD.

For GPU take a look at the Intel ARC options as well if you need a ton of RAM they tend to be cheaper.

 

[manly]

Thanks for the info. A few questions:

1) As far as a NVMe SSD, that is something I'm unfamiliar with. I did take a look on the net (but unfortunately don't have much free time right now). It looks like it's a drive that plugs directly into the PCIe? Interesting. I do like that it would be much faster, so I am interested. I'd just need to make sure the mobo has the room for both the video card and a NVMe SSD. Which size PCIe slot do they use, or does it depend on the one you buy? I would want to make sure I get one that would fit the mobo I get

2) Thanks, I will try to look into that if I have time. I thought it was the reverse, and Nvidia gave you more bang for your buck? I did take a look, and comparing the two, the only difference I see is the core clock is higher in the AMD one, but I already know that's just because of the difference in internal architecture. Can you tell me why you feel the AMD is superior to the Nvidia? The prices on both look comparable.

3.Thanks again. I took your suggestion and swapped the mobo. They seem comparable anyway, so figure might as well.

4. I'm in FL, and unfortunately we don't have any Micro Centers at all in FL. I do appreciate you mentioning it though.

And I mean I might end up going on Newegg or somewhere else to get the best prices. I'm simply using this PCPartsPicker so I can make sure everything will be compatible.

1. An NVMe SSD is a necessity, and there is a specific slot on all current motherboards where you can install it (often 2 on full ATX motherboards). Same slot inside many laptops (except MacBooks and similar disposable designs). You'll want an NVMe SSD with the standard 2280 size (there are others that are not as common). Since you're budget-constrained you might have to settle for 1TB. Hard disk drives are no longer suitable for modern PC boot drives (but okay as secondary bulk storage).

2. Nvidia is the dominant market leader in graphics cards and AI, and they have significant pricing power (translation: higher prices). The Radeon RX 6750 XT deal I linked to is a significantly better card than a GeForce RTX 3060. There are some good reasons to choose Nvidia (notably software APIs) but they mostly do not apply at the $300 level.

3. Amazon has price matched Best Buy on that deal. I don't know how long this deal will last for; regular price for that board is about $190. Normally you will want to buy everything all at once (across different vendors is okay), but sometimes you have to jump on hot deals before they end. Amazon does have 30 day returns, if necessary.

Edit: unfortunately sale is over, back to its normal price.

4. Not sure, but Micro Center is coming "soon" to Miami.

 

[BoomerD]

Here's a comparison between a Western Digital Black 2TB 7200 rpm HDD and a Gen 4 Western Digital Black 2TB SN770 NVMe drive.

First, the hdd:

Next, the NVMe drive:

There is a HUGE difference between the two.

 

[mikeymikec]

Here's a comparison between a Western Digital Black 2TB 7200 rpm HDD and a Gen 4 Western Digital Black 2TB SN770 NVMe drive.

First, the hdd:

Next, the NVMe drive:

There is a HUGE difference between the two.

The relevance of this with regard to boot drives is probably not clear from the benchmarks, so this is from personal experience:

When cold-booting Win10/11 from a HDD, expect the desktop / icons / taskbar to appear within say 1.5 minutes, but then Windows will carry on saturating the hard drive with activity for at least 5-10 minutes.

The same system when booting from a SSD (especially the system outlined in the OP) will take about 20 seconds to get to the desktop and at that point will have finished starting up.

Also, Win10/11 systems booting from a hard drive will show a much greater variation in performance, e.g. sometimes Chrome takes between 1-3 seconds to start, sometimes 10-15 seconds. The same system when booting from an SSD will cold-start Chrome within three seconds *at the very most*.

Hard drives are trivially easy to overwhelm with basic activities. SSDs (especially a decent SSD) is very difficult to overwhelm with basic activities.

 

[BoomerD]

The relevance of this with regard to boot drives is probably not clear from the benchmarks, so this is from personal experience:

When cold-booting Win10/11 from a HDD, expect the desktop / icons / taskbar to appear within say 1.5 minutes, but then Windows will carry on saturating the hard drive with activity for at least 5-10 minutes.

The same system when booting from a SSD (especially the system outlined in the OP) will take about 20 seconds to get to the desktop and at that point will have finished starting up.

Also, Win10/11 systems booting from a hard drive will show a much greater variation in performance, e.g. sometimes Chrome takes between 1-3 seconds to start, sometimes 10-15 seconds. The same system when booting from an SSD will cold-start Chrome within three seconds *at the very most*.

Hard drives are trivially easy to overwhelm with basic activities. SSDs (especially a decent SSD) is very difficult to overwhelm with basic activities.

From "push the power button" to fully operational Windows 10 is generally less than 30 seconds booting from the NVMe SSD drive. However, while that's great and all, the increased performance while gaming...load times are nearly instantaneous...I rarely do much "work" on my PC nowadays...so gaming is about the only reference I have.

 

[ascendant]

Thank you for all the information on here, all of you. I greatly appreciate it. I made modifications based off the suggestions here:

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/3hdL34

I added thermal paste, so I think that should be everything I'd need to build the new rig. Anything else I forgot to add there that I should have? I already have all the peripherals, so I only need things that are relevant to the tower itself.

Also, as far as the tower, do they just not have ones that have bays for dvd drives or other peripherals like that anymore? Looks like all of them just have fans in the front if anything. So, say you get some kind of hardware that has software cds for drive/software installation. What do you do then?

 

[Tech Junky]

@ascendant

I use a graphite pad instead of paste since I'm always messing with the system or swapping parts or upgrading. ~$10 for a pad you can use repeatedly makes more sense to me. Plus it doesn't degrade since it's graphite like the paste does. I've been using them in both laptop / desktop for years now and the temps are comparable to even he priciest pastes.

Maybe grab a couple of extra case fans or even the Arctic 5-pack PWM PST 120's for backups on the PA120 and use the others maybe on the bottom or top of the case to push more air.

Specking of pads above... depending on how the GPU heats up they can be used there as well. There are 5-pack options for the pads as well for ~$15. Just size them to the dies and clamp the cooler back on.

I use the same PA120/pad configuration on my 7900X and it usually sits around 40C ad under stress under 70C. Another consideration would be a contact frame for more heat dissipation for the CPU ~$10 and it adds some rigidity for the cooler to sit on top of the CPU.

 

[manly]

2TB is a good size for an SSD. But you don't have to spend $200 for PCIe 5.0.* The best PCIe 4.0 SSDs are also blazing fast, and will cut the cost down to < $150. Just for example, the well reviewed WD SN850x is $140.
The MAG B650 Tomahawk board reverted to normal price, so you can choose a better deal.
Not sure if people still recommend Arctic Silver 5, but it's fine. Last time I ordered Thermaltake TG-7 off Amazon.
Optimal media as storage is considered obsolete now, so cases dropped the bays. You can use a USB DVD writer if you really need to.

* The B650 chipset doesn't support PCIe 5.0, which is not a real world limitation. But to get that capability you'll need B650E or X670E. Even if you did go that route, I'd still recommend the SN850x or similar.

 

[In2Photos]

Thank you for all the information on here, all of you. I greatly appreciate it. I made modifications based off the suggestions here:

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/3hdL34

I added thermal paste, so I think that should be everything I'd need to build the new rig. Anything else I forgot to add there that I should have? I already have all the peripherals, so I only need things that are relevant to the tower itself.

Also, as far as the tower, do they just not have ones that have bays for dvd drives or other peripherals like that anymore? Looks like all of them just have fans in the front if anything. So, say you get some kind of hardware that has software cds for drive/software installation. What do you do then?

The CPU cooler will come with paste but it's good to have some on hand in case you need to reinstall the cooler at some point.

Fractal makes a couple of cases that have drive bays. You can filter cases on PCpartpicker for front bays. No one packages CD/DVD software anymore. It's all downloaded from the manufacturer's website. You could also get an external drive if you really need one and just attach it as needed via USB.

On the nvme drive you don't need a heatsink with the drive. The motherboard you chose has built in heat sinks for m.2 drives. And there are likely better prices drives than the MSI. WD, Samsung, Crucial, etc

I still wouldn't buy the gigabyte PSU. They handled the entire thing rather poorly.

 

[Tech Junky]

So, say you get some kind of hardware that has software cds for drive/software installation. What do you do then?

dodo bird. USB / DL direct and install from drive. Or if you really need an optical drive get an external one. They tend to not be in use these days for most people. I haven't had one inside a system in at least a decade.

 

[In2Photos]

@ascendant

I use a graphite pad instead of paste since I'm always messing with the system or swapping parts or upgrading. ~$10 for a pad you can use repeatedly makes more sense to me. Plus it doesn't degrade since it's graphite like the paste does. I've been using them in both laptop / desktop for years now and the temps are comparable to even he priciest pastes.

Maybe grab a couple of extra case fans or even the Arctic 5-pack PWM PST 120's for backups on the PA120 and use the others maybe on the bottom or top of the case to push more air.

Specking of pads above... depending on how the GPU heats up they can be used there as well. There are 5-pack options for the pads as well for ~$15. Just size them to the dies and clamp the cooler back on.

I use the same PA120/pad configuration on my 7900X and it usually sits around 40C ad under stress under 70C. Another consideration would be a contact frame for more heat dissipation for the CPU ~$10 and it adds some rigidity for the cooler to sit on top of the CPU.

That case comes with 2 160 and 1 140mm fans. They move plenty of air. No need for extra fans.

 

[Tech Junky]

That case comes with 2 160 and 1 140mm fans. They move plenty of air. No need for extra fans.

Kind of why I went with the FD Torrent which has 2*180 on the front and a couple of places to tuck in additional fans if needed.

I tend to over fan systems for both temps and redundancy if a fan happens to die. Though I also tend to not trust the OEM fans that ship with cases as they tend to be less desirable in terms of specs.

 

[BoomerD]

Thank you for all the information on here, all of you. I greatly appreciate it. I made modifications based off the suggestions here:

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/3hdL34

I added thermal paste, so I think that should be everything I'd need to build the new rig. Anything else I forgot to add there that I should have? I already have all the peripherals, so I only need things that are relevant to the tower itself.

Also, as far as the tower, do they just not have ones that have bays for dvd drives or other peripherals like that anymore? Looks like all of them just have fans in the front if anything. So, say you get some kind of hardware that has software cds for drive/software installation. What do you do then?

I have 2 Samsung DVD drives left over from...yesteryear. Since MOST "modern" pcs don't come with drive bays, I picked up an external DVD enclosure a couple of years ago that also doubles as an HDD enclosure. (same connetions...I use it for doing backups) OR, for chump change, pick up an external DVD drive and use it when you need it. I grabbed one at a yard sale for $10 a couple of years ago. Not the fastest, but it does the job.
I'll second the recommendations to get a motherboard and drive that support Gen 4.0 NVMe drives. They're lightning fast and (generally) don't need any kind of cooler beyond the heatsink that is part of the motherboard or, worst case, you add on. Even that might be overkill.
I built my current PC with a be quiet! Dark Base Pro 900 Rev.2 case. It's a freakin monster case...has room to add 2 ODDs if I choose...but, so far, I haven't done so.

 

[ascendant]

Thanks again for all the feedback.

I will take a look at replacement options for the Gigabyte part. I get what you're saying about not just that it happened, but how they responded to it as well. I'm sure there are other affordable options

As far as the 4.0 vs 5.0 NVMe drives, when I looked around, I saw that 5.0 can be up to 2.5x faster. I didn't look that deep into it, but I would assume that's best case scenario, and typical scenario is far less of an increase. But, even if it's only typically say 40% faster than the 4.0, I would rather spend the extra $50 now and have that extra speed. I'd much, much rather get the latest types of interfaces than to have it outdated sooner down the road. If I have to pay an extra $100-200 to make sure it's all up to date as far as that, It'll cost me less in the long run anyway, as it won't become outdated as fast.

I mean this computer I have now has had multiple updates to it, but I originally built it well more than 15yrs ago, possibly even 20. I would love to have one that could last that long again (of course with upgrades to parts here and there over the years). Only things I remember changing later on were the CPU, and video card. But, with it being 15-20yrs ago, that's why I needed to get advice from you guys. I didn't keep on top of the latest components. My focuses were elsewhere, so my knowledge became extremely outdated, lol.

 

[Tech Junky]

5.0 NVMe

Get the E board and a 4 drive. Save the cash for an upgrade later. The difference in load times won't be much. The only difference would be a benchmark since 99% of the time you won't be pushing that much data. When moving data between two 4 drives in my laptop they typically don't break 2GB/s due to how the bus handles the data internally. However, if I transfer data to TB enclosure I can get it up to 3+GB/s.

To get those 15GB/s speeds they advertise and benchmark at you would need some interesting data path and active cooling on the drives.

 

[manly]

As far as the 4.0 vs 5.0 NVMe drives, when I looked around, I saw that 5.0 can be up to 2.5x faster. I didn't look that deep into it, but I would assume that's best case scenario, and typical scenario is far less of an increase. But, even if it's only typically say 40% faster than the 4.0, I would rather spend the extra $50 now and have that extra speed. I'd much, much rather get the latest types of interfaces than to have it outdated sooner down the road. If I have to pay an extra $100-200 to make sure it's all up to date as far as that, It'll cost me less in the long run anyway, as it won't become outdated as fast.

A lot has indeed changed in 15 years. One of the trends is that hardware advances are getting more incremental. Even if they are impressive numerical gains, the real world impact becomes more limited because at some point, fast enough is fast enough for the average consumer.

And that's the case with NVMe storage. The best PCIe 4.0 SSDs are more than fast enough for consumer applications. If you're on a very tight budget, you'd skip PCIe 5.0 for now (as alluded to, they run pretty hot to get that extra performance) and pocket the savings. Will you actually notice if your game loads 0.5 seconds faster? I wouldn't.

I'm usually of the camp "newer is better," but the calculus changes when you factor in value.

Happy building!

 

[Tech Junky]

I'm usually of the camp "newer is better," but the calculus changes when you factor in value.

Same here.

Though there are some instances of splurge. I went all flash and picked up a 15TB Gen 4 2.5" drive for $1200 but, I got rid of raid and multiple drives needed to get beyond 8TB if using M2 drives. Going from raid spinners topping out at 400MB > single disk at 6.5GB/s and dropping the per TB cost it made sense. And my box lost 10# of weight like a shot of ozempic.

 

[ascendant]

Ok, so per your suggestions here, I switched from the Gigabyte PSU to an MSI one.

I left the SSD as is for now. I saw I can save about $40-60 getting a 4.0, but I’m seeing that 5.0 doubles the data transfer rate from 2GB per lane to 4GB. Even if it’s overkill right now, like I said, I want this thing to last a long time, and eventually down the road, it will come in useful. I’m willing to spend the extra $ for that.

I also switched from the MSI MAG B650 TOMAHAWK WIFI to the MSI B650 GAMING PLUS WIFI, as the only difference I see in the specs is the Tomahawk has 6 SATA 6.0, and the Gaming Plus has 4 SATA. But with that, I did have a question about that, and two other things:

1) Since the NVMe plugs into the PCIe slot, what would I even be using the SATA connections for? Would it only be if I hooked up one of my SATA hard drives for a backup drive or extra storage, or does anything else connect to them?

2) Does NVMe plug into the PCIe x 16 slot? If so, looks like between the video card and the NVMe drive, that would take up both the PCIe x16 slots on this board?

3) Since the RAM sticks I was going to get are now out of stock, I wasn’t sure whether to get one or the other of these 2? I mean I can get literally double the RAM for about $30 more. So, 32GB at 30 CAS latency, or 64GB at 40 CAS latency for $40 more?

 

[Tech Junky]

The drives go into the M2 sockets not the slots.