Question Feedback - These Good Choices?

[athrowaway2242]

Ok, so per your suggestions here, I switched from the Gigabyte PSU to an MSI one.

I left the SSD as is for now. I saw I can save about $40-60 getting a 4.0, but I’m seeing that 5.0 doubles the data transfer rate from 2GB per lane to 4GB. Even if it’s overkill right now, like I said, I want this thing to last a long time, and eventually down the road, it will come in useful. I’m willing to spend the extra $ for that.

I also switched from the MSI MAG B650 TOMAHAWK WIFI to the MSI B650 GAMING PLUS WIFI, as the only difference I see in the specs is the Tomahawk has 6 SATA 6.0, and the Gaming Plus has 4 SATA. But with that, I did have a question about that, and two other things:

1) Since the NVMe plugs into the PCIe slot, what would I even be using the SATA connections for? Would it only be if I hooked up one of my SATA hard drives for a backup drive or extra storage, or does anything else connect to them?

2) Does NVMe plug into the PCIe x 16 slot? If so, looks like between the video card and the NVMe drive, that would take up both the PCIe x16 slots on this board?

3) Since the RAM sticks I was going to get are now out of stock, I wasn’t sure whether to get one or the other of these 2? I mean I can get literally double the RAM for about $30 more. So, 32GB at 30 CAS latency, or 64GB at 40 CAS latency for $40 more?

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The 5.0 will only benefit if you get a board that supports gen 5 NVME/PCIe5. the board you picked (and many of the B650 boards) dont support this. Youd need a B650E or an X670(e) board

I agree that the real world benefit of PCIe5 NVME probably wont be realized at this point and probably not in your applications (benefit would be most seen in high speed large volume data transfers, 4K video editing etc) A samsung 990 Pro or a Scorpio Black SSD would both be very fast.

That 50-60 bucks could go into CPU, GPU, RAM, size of NVME drive, or power supply upgrades - or just your pocket.





You could do something like this
- Z5 Neo Ram is pretty good, has a compatible speed and timings, F5-6000J3038F16GX2-TZ5NR listed as compatible with the motherboard.
-saves a few dollars on the NVME drive, put that into the PSU
- compared to your parts list its about 60$ cheaper configured this way (assuming 100$ for the teamgroup RAM) which you can save, or put toward whatever component you want. I dont know much about the AMD GPUs but its possible 60$ there, or towards the CPU, might give you a nice boost in performance. someone else will have to comment on that i am not sure

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 7600X 4.7 GHz 6-Core Processor ($196.00 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 SE 66.17 CFM CPU Cooler ($36.90 @ Amazon)
Thermal Compound: Arctic Silver 5 High-Density Polysynthetic Silver 3.5 g Thermal Paste ($5.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: MSI B650 GAMING PLUS WIFI ATX AM5 Motherboard ($169.99 @ MSI)
Memory: G.Skill Trident Z5 Neo 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-6000 CL30 Memory ($114.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital WD_Black SN850X 2 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive ($139.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: XFX Speedster QICK 319 Core Radeon RX 6750 XT 12 GB Video Card ($299.99 @ Newegg Sellers)
Case: Lian Li LANCOOL 216 RGB ATX Mid Tower Case ($94.50 @ Adorama)
Power Supply: Corsair RM850x (2021) 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($109.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $1168.34
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2024-07-22 09:48 EDT-0400

 

[In2Photos]

As noted on that slide B650 boards can optionally support Gen 5 NVME. My MSI B650 Edge does, for example: https://www.newegg.com/msi-mpg-b650-edge-wifi/p/N82E16813144555

B650E and higher boards require Gen 5 support.

 

[athrowaway2242]

As noted on that slide B650 boards can optionally support Gen 5 NVME. My MSI B650 Edge does, for example: https://www.newegg.com/msi-mpg-b650-edge-wifi/p/N82E16813144555

B650E and higher boards require Gen 5 support.

Agree I don’t think the gaming plus one above does though at least from their website

 

[In2Photos]

Agree I don’t think the gaming plus one above does though at least from their website

Correct, neither of the 2 boards that were linked support the Gen5 speeds, only Gen4.

 

[ascendant]

The drives go into the M2 sockets not the slots.

Thanks, I see that now after looking at the diagram. I was looking at the description of the NVMe drive itself, which states "PCIe 5.0 x4", so I'm a little confused as to why the NVMe drive states that on it, while in the diagram of where it plugs in, it has the M2?

As far as the RAM, after looking into both options, I'm going to go with the 32GB. Everything on those are faster than the 64GB, so figure it makes sense.

Anyway, can anyone tell me what my bottleneck will be on this as well?

 

[ascendant]

Correct, neither of the 2 boards that were linked support the Gen5 speeds, only Gen4.

So then does this mean that even if I use the 5.0 NVMe, I'm still going to only get 4.0 speeds? Since that seems to be the case from what you're saying, is there any mobo I could get in place that would within a comparable price, or do they jump up for that support? I mean if it's not too big of a jump I might, but between the extra cost of the NVMe drive, and the extra cost of a mobo, I'm now leaning towards just going 4.0. I mean both of them use the same slot, it's just the ability to process faster with that slot, right?

 

[athrowaway2242]

So then does this mean that even if I use the 5.0 NVMe, I'm still going to only get 4.0 speeds? Since that seems to be the case from what you're saying, is there any mobo I could get in place that would within a comparable price, or do they jump up for that support? I mean if it's not too big of a jump I might, but between the extra cost of the NVMe drive, and the extra cost of a mobo, I'm now leaning towards just going 4.0. I mean both of them use the same slot, it's just the ability to process faster with that slot, right?

you would need a B650E, X670, or X670E board, or find a B650 board that specifically chose to support PCIe5. It will go up a bit in price. benefit is questionable in the near term.

Thanks, I see that now after looking at the diagram. I was looking at the description of the NVMe drive itself, which states "PCIe 5.0 x4", so I'm a little confused as to why the NVMe drive states that on it, while in the diagram of where it plugs in, it has the M2?

As far as the RAM, after looking into both options, I'm going to go with the 32GB. Everything on those are faster than the 64GB, so figure it makes sense.

Anyway, can anyone tell me what my bottleneck will be on this as well?

RAM can be finicky with timings/speed based on your CPU and specific motherboard support. The one I linked for you is guaranteed to support the speeds and timings for your particular CPU/mobo combo, and will also support AMD EXPO timings, but if you go with another kit, you will want to check the QvL on the motherboard and the RAM website to ensure compatibility.

 

[ascendant]

you would need a B650E, X670, or X670E board, or find a B650 board that specifically chose to support PCIe5. It will go up a bit in price. benefit is questionable in the near term.

Thanks again for the information. I actually searched the web and did find that out. Looking at the price differences, I'm definitely going to just go with the 4.0. Between the mobo and the 5.0 vs the 4.0 drives, I'd end up spending at least $130 more. I mean this one should last a long time anyway.

 

[athrowaway2242]

Thanks again for the information. I actually searched the web and did find that out. Looking at the price differences, I'm definitely going to just go with the 4.0. Between the mobo and the 5.0 vs the 4.0 drives, I'd end up spending at least $130 more. I mean this one should last a long time anyway.

Sure - feel free to post an updated parts list so we can check compatibility for everything else as well

Also - again, I dont know a ton about the AMD GPUs so someone else will have to chime in. But unless youve got a top line GPU, almost certainly the bottleneck in a build like this will be the GPU. 32Gb good quality RAM, high speed NVME drive, good processor, i cant imagine any of those will bottleneck you before the GPU bottle necks. Now, the question I dont know the answer to is this - is there a bigger performance gain going to a 7800X3D which is 190$ more, vs adding 200$ to the GPU budget (or even 100$). If I were guessing, Id suspect that any additional money put towards the GPU will reduce the bottle neck if that is your goal and there is money left over.

Perhaps someone else can comment on this, and once we have your updated part list and budget we can help more

 

[In2Photos]

So then does this mean that even if I use the 5.0 NVMe, I'm still going to only get 4.0 speeds? Since that seems to be the case from what you're saying, is there any mobo I could get in place that would within a comparable price, or do they jump up for that support? I mean if it's not too big of a jump I might, but between the extra cost of the NVMe drive, and the extra cost of a mobo, I'm now leaning towards just going 4.0. I mean both of them use the same slot, it's just the ability to process faster with that slot, right?

Correct. Drive speeds will be limited to the interface they are attached to.

The MSI B650 Edge has a 5.0 slot at $200. Otherwise here is a list of boards with a 5.0 M.2 slot sorted by price. https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?N=100007625 601424583&Order=1

The AsRock Riptide at $175 is a good board as well.

I have a newer laptop with a PCI Gen 3 drive and my desktop has a Gen 4 drive. I honestly can't say that I see a huge difference in real world speed. That's one of the reasons I didn't get a Gen 5 drive for my desktop. That and the temps were pretty high on Gen 5 drives.

 

[athrowaway2242]

Correct. Drive speeds will be limited to the interface they are attached to.

The MSI B650 Edge has a 5.0 slot at $200. Otherwise here is a list of boards with a 5.0 M.2 slot sorted by price. https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?N=100007625 601424583&Order=1

The AsRock Riptide at $175 is a good board as well.

I have a newer laptop with a PCI Gen 3 drive and my desktop has a Gen 4 drive. I honestly can't say that I see a huge difference in real world speed. That's one of the reasons I didn't get a Gen 5 drive for my desktop. That and the temps were pretty high on Gen 5 drives.

Curious - what are the trade offs to obtain PCIe 5 M2 at those pricepoints compared to the other B650 boards listed above?

 

[ascendant]

Correct. Drive speeds will be limited to the interface they are attached to.

The MSI B650 Edge has a 5.0 slot at $200. Otherwise here is a list of boards with a 5.0 M.2 slot sorted by price. https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?N=100007625 601424583&Order=1

The AsRock Riptide at $175 is a good board as well.

I have a newer laptop with a PCI Gen 3 drive and my desktop has a Gen 4 drive. I honestly can't say that I see a huge difference in real world speed. That's one of the reasons I didn't get a Gen 5 drive for my desktop. That and the temps were pretty high on Gen 5 drives.

Thanks again for all the help. It's greatly appreciated.

Ok, so per your suggestion, I went with the B650 edge, and went back to a 5.0 NVMe drive.

As far as the Gen 5 drives, I get that currently, they're overkill and the performance increase would be negligible. But like I said, I'm thinking long run too, and want this rig to last as long as possible. Eventually in the years to come, demands will become high enough to where it will be noticeable, and with the speeds doubling every generation, I feel that at the time where software/games need that speed, it will be quite significant. I could certainly be wrong, but based on everything I've researched, I would suspect that will eventually be the case. Might not be for another 5yrs, maybe another 10. Idk, but either way, it's about an extra $80 altogether for me to get a mobo with the Gen 5 compatibility and the NVMe 5.0, so figure it's worth it just to be on the safe side in the long run.

Here is the updated list:

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/Ascendant0/saved/qRHM3C

 

[In2Photos]

Curious - what are the trade offs to obtain PCIe 5 M2 at those pricepoints compared to the other B650 boards listed above?

The B650 boards will most likely not have PICe Gen 5 slots. They also may not have the better heatsinks for the VRMs. Some may only have 2 or 3 M.2 slots instead of 4. Some use cheaper audio chips. Some are micro ATX and some only have 2 DIMM slots. It's all a matter of what's important to each user.

 

[ascendant]

The B650 boards will most likely not have PICe Gen 5 slots. They also may not have the better heatsinks for the VRMs. Some may only have 2 or 3 M.2 slots instead of 4. Some use cheaper audio chips. Some are micro ATX and some only have 2 DIMM slots. It's all a matter of what's important to each user.

As far as the link you provided, I do see some boards on there (mainly ASUS and ASRock) that are cheaper than the MSI one. Any particular reason you went with that one vs them, or just a better board/brand overall?

 

[In2Photos]

Thanks again for all the help. It's greatly appreciated.

Ok, so per your suggestion, I went with the B650 edge, and went back to a 5.0 NVMe drive.

As far as the Gen 5 drives, I get that currently, they're overkill and the performance increase would be negligible. But like I said, I'm thinking long run too, and want this rig to last as long as possible. Eventually in the years to come, demands will become high enough to where it will be noticeable, and with the speeds doubling every generation, I feel that at the time where software/games need that speed, it will be quite significant. I could certainly be wrong, but based on everything I've researched, I would suspect that will eventually be the case. Might not be for another 5yrs, maybe another 10. Idk, but either way, it's about an extra $80 altogether for me to get a mobo with the Gen 5 compatibility and the NVMe 5.0, so figure it's worth it just to be on the safe side in the long run.

Here is the updated list:

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/Ascendant0/saved/qRHM3C

To each his own but I think the extra money you are spending for Gen 5 drives is not worth it compared to spending that money elsewhere like upgrading the GPU. You will gain more performance on a better GPU than you will the hard drive. You can spend an extra $60 and get an RX 6800 which has 4GB of vRAM more than the 6750XT and more processing power. That has much more value than Gen 5 speeds.

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/WMgrxr/xfx-speedster-swft-319-core-radeon-rx-6800-16-gb-video-card-rx-68xlaqfde

 

[In2Photos]

As far as the link you provided, I do see some boards on there (mainly ASUS and ASRock) that are cheaper than the MSI one. Any particular reason you went with that one vs them, or just a better board/brand overall?

I've always like MSI boards, but I did a white build so my choices were slightly limited. So I bought the board that met all my needs including the color choice.

 

[athrowaway2242]

Thanks again for all the help. It's greatly appreciated.

Ok, so per your suggestion, I went with the B650 edge, and went back to a 5.0 NVMe drive.

As far as the Gen 5 drives, I get that currently, they're overkill and the performance increase would be negligible. But like I said, I'm thinking long run too, and want this rig to last as long as possible. Eventually in the years to come, demands will become high enough to where it will be noticeable, and with the speeds doubling every generation, I feel that at the time where software/games need that speed, it will be quite significant. I could certainly be wrong, but based on everything I've researched, I would suspect that will eventually be the case. Might not be for another 5yrs, maybe another 10. Idk, but either way, it's about an extra $80 altogether for me to get a mobo with the Gen 5 compatibility and the NVMe 5.0, so figure it's worth it just to be on the safe side in the long run.

Here is the updated list:

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/Ascendant0/saved/qRHM3C

The Corsair RAM you linked does not list that MSI motherboard as compatible - doesnt mean it wont work, but its not guaranteed. from the other side, the MSI website also does not list that Corsair RAM as compatible. So, proceed at own risk. The G Skill memory I linked above is CL30 with tight timings and is compatible

Additionally, risk is even if it is compatible, might be throttled to 4800Mhz or worse timings that youl have to manually set, may not support EXPO profiles.

 

[athrowaway2242]

To each his own but I think the extra money you are spending for Gen 5 drives is not worth it compared to spending that money elsewhere like upgrading the GPU. You will gain more performance on a better GPU than you will the hard drive. You can spend an extra $60 and get an RX 6800 which has 4GB of vRAM more than the 6750XT and more processing power. That has much more value than Gen 5 speeds.

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/WMgrxr/xfx-speedster-swft-319-core-radeon-rx-6800-16-gb-video-card-rx-68xlaqfde

I agree with this

 

[ascendant]

The Corsair RAM you linked does not list that MSI motherboard as compatible - doesnt mean it wont work, but its not guaranteed. from the other side, the MSI website also does not list that Corsair RAM as compatible. So, proceed at own risk. The G Skill memory I linked above is CL30 with tight timings and is compatible

Additionally, risk is even if it is compatible, might be throttled to 4800Mhz or worse timings that youl have to manually set, may not support EXPO profiles.

I apologize, I didn't mean to ignore your clearly well thought out post above. I've been crazy busy lately, and I overlooked that post somehow.

I went with your suggestions and switched things again. I think this is pretty much what both you and In2Photos suggested. I went back to the 4.0 mobo and NVMe, and put the extra $60 instead into the GPU:

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/Ascendant0/saved/qRHM3C

I think this is identical now to what you posted above, lol. But I mean any other suggestions, I appreciate it. You guys are awesome. I just don't have enough time at this point to do my own research. Getting ready to head back to college for physics in a month after an 8yr layoff, all while raising my kids and working. I don't have enough hours in the day as it is, so I greatly appreciate you guys helping me with this to save me time.

 

[athrowaway2242]

I apologize, I didn't mean to ignore your clearly well thought out post above. I've been crazy busy lately, and I overlooked that post somehow.

I went with your suggestions and switched things again. I think this is pretty much what both you and In2Photos suggested. I went back to the 4.0 mobo and NVMe, and put the extra $60 instead into the GPU:

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/Ascendant0/saved/qRHM3C

I think this is identical now to what you posted above, lol. But I mean any other suggestions, I appreciate it. You guys are awesome. I just don't have enough time at this point to do my own research. Getting ready to head back to college for physics in a month after an 8yr layoff, all while raising my kids and working. I don't have enough hours in the day as it is, so I greatly appreciate you guys helping me with this to save me time.

That looks pretty good to me but im sure others will have thoughts too

I dont know much about that PSU
https://hwbusters.com/psus/corsair-rm850x-review/ is a few dollars cheaper but may be a 'higher quality' build. It does not have the PCIe5 power - but your motherboard doesnt support that and realistically if you end up upgrading in the future to get a PCIe5 GPU youll need a new PSU anyway.

https://hwbusters.com/psus/msi-mag-a850gl-pcie5-850w-psu-review/11/ - they werent so keen on the MSI one.

I dont know much about this one though so will let others weigh on. the RM850x is a well known solid PSU.

another option that seems to be well liked is https://pcpartpicker.com/product/bN...ly-modular-atx-power-supply-atx3-focus-gx-850 which does have PCIe5 support. HW busters doesnt have a specific review of it but theyve reviewed the other wattage models i believe.

 

[ascendant]

That looks pretty good to me but im sure others will have thoughts too

I dont know much about that PSU
https://hwbusters.com/psus/corsair-rm850x-review/ is a few dollars cheaper but may be a 'higher quality' build. It does not have the PCIe5 power - but your motherboard doesnt support that and realistically if you end up upgrading in the future to get a PCIe5 GPU youll need a new PSU anyway.

https://hwbusters.com/psus/msi-mag-a850gl-pcie5-850w-psu-review/11/ - they werent so keen on the MSI one.

I dont know much about this one though so will let others weigh on. the RM850x is a well known solid PSU.

another option that seems to be well liked is https://pcpartpicker.com/product/bN...ly-modular-atx-power-supply-atx3-focus-gx-850 which does have PCIe5 support. HW busters doesnt have a specific review of it but theyve reviewed the other wattage models i believe.

Oh, I actually did change that as well. Seems like I didn't save afterwards. But yea, I did switch over to that PSU as well:

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/Ascendant0/saved/qRHM3C

 

[In2Photos]

Oh, I actually did change that as well. Seems like I didn't save afterwards. But yea, I did switch over to that PSU as well:

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/Ascendant0/saved/qRHM3C

Pull the trigger! That looks good.

 

[ascendant]

Pull the trigger! That looks good.

Awesome, thanks again for all your help, all of you. I greatly appreciate it.

Ordered everything. Got most of it at Amazon. The mobo and cooling fan was going to take like 3 weeks, so I went with Newegg. About $15 more, but they also included a 512GB NVMe drive, so can't complain. Should be here in 2 days. I'm psyched.

As far as the slots, what goes where, is there anything in particular that I should be aware of? I mean most of it is self-explanatory as far as what goes where, I know that already. Just with how long it's been, and with these new interfaces, wasn't sure if there was anything I need to be careful of as far as placement of which specific slots or any of that?

Like from what I had in my notes here, you put the ram in the 2nd and 4th slots, right?

 

[athrowaway2242]

Awesome, thanks again for all your help, all of you. I greatly appreciate it.

Ordered everything. Got most of it at Amazon. The mobo and cooling fan was going to take like 3 weeks, so I went with Newegg. About $15 more, but they also included a 512GB NVMe drive, so can't complain. Should be here in 2 days. I'm psyched.

As far as the slots, what goes where, is there anything in particular that I should be aware of? I mean most of it is self-explanatory as far as what goes where, I know that already. Just with how long it's been, and with these new interfaces, wasn't sure if there was anything I need to be careful of as far as placement of which specific slots or any of that?

Like from what I had in my notes here, you put the ram in the 2nd and 4th slots, right?

https://www.pcmag.com/how-to/how-to-build-a-pc-the-ultimate-beginners-guide

This is a guide I was planning to follow along with - even though things are straightforward seeming...i think this guide does a good job of the small weird things and has great pictures/commentary and a video as well

 

[In2Photos]

Awesome, thanks again for all your help, all of you. I greatly appreciate it.

Ordered everything. Got most of it at Amazon. The mobo and cooling fan was going to take like 3 weeks, so I went with Newegg. About $15 more, but they also included a 512GB NVMe drive, so can't complain. Should be here in 2 days. I'm psyched.

As far as the slots, what goes where, is there anything in particular that I should be aware of? I mean most of it is self-explanatory as far as what goes where, I know that already. Just with how long it's been, and with these new interfaces, wasn't sure if there was anything I need to be careful of as far as placement of which specific slots or any of that?

Like from what I had in my notes here, you put the ram in the 2nd and 4th slots, right?

Typically you want to install the m.2 in the top most slot closest to the CPU. Same for the GPU. RAM in slots 2 and 4. Make sure you install the 24 pin, both 8 pin EPS connectors from the PSU. CPU fan should plug into the CPU_FAN header.

I'm a big proponent of building the PC outside of the case first so you can test everything and make sure it works before putting it in the case. Build it on top of the motherboard box.