Feminism is broken

[Moonbeam]

They think they want that. At a certain point they will get hurt badly enough to realize that what they really want are good boys (they'll be men by then).

At about the same time bad boys will start turning into men when they hurt a girl badly enough to feel guilty about it (snips and snails, and puppy dogs tails, that's what little boys are made of).

Many immature boys externalize their bad feelings and try to put them on others, while many immature girls wisely internalize 'the bad side', but then take it on from others until they hit rock bottom.

Unfortunately it takes time until kids realize that personal responsibility and self respect come from dropping these seemingly instinctual desires rooted in poor self esteem (I feel better if I can make another feel worse :twisted. Remember in teenagers poor self esteem can be the result of a friend getting better sneakers than they have. I can understand why some believe that desire is the source of all evil.

I have heard of great results from getting kids to meditate, because when you have quiet time with your own mind you start figuring some things out as you watch your thoughts, fears, and desires try to take over, and what triggers them. The opposite of exercising that muscle of self awareness is the distractions like phones and tablets that consume every ounce of their attention.

The intention I see in your post makes me happy, Mr. bradly1101.

 

[Moonbeam]

I read you as suggesting cultivation of a tendency to drop from that pretense/meme/ideology.

Fear comes from looking around and saying:

"If I disengage then I might end up where I am; and this his horrendous"


Ecclesiastes 4:

I looked and saw how much people were suffering on this earth

I saw the tears of those who are suffering.
They don’t have anyone to comfort them.
Power is on the side of those who treat them badly.
Those who are suffering don’t have anyone to comfort them.
Then I announced that those
who have already died
are happier than those
who are still alive.
But someone who hasn’t been born yet
is better off than the dead or the living.
That’s because that person hasn’t seen the evil things
that are done on earth.

I have heard that somewhere in the Apocrypha is a report of Christ saying the following:

Did you but suffer you would not suffer. The problem I have with cultivating a tendency to pretense is that it is the pretentious part of me that will do that seeking. One thing I know about suffering is that when you suffer and suffer fully, there can be no pretense about it at all. To suffer is to grieve for oneself and that, ultimately, is real compassion. This kind of psychological healing, I think, is traditionally called Grace. It is a way to bypass the ego, the road to ego death, the return to total vulnerability and an invitation to re-live ones terror.

I look and I see endless repressed suffering, people afraid to feel what they feel. All I can do is suggest what they fear is to feel how much they were make to hate themselves, and that the certainty that they deserved their suffering is a lie, that the way out isn't in the preservation and exaltation of the ego, but its extinction. The Phoenix rises only after it has burned to ashes.

This is why the meek inherit the earth.

 

[Bart*Simpson]

Fearing each other is a mindset that creates hate.

It also contributes to good marksmanship!

 

[bshole]

You tried everything? But every time I suggest to you that you do not practice what you believe, you avoid that confrontation with your own reality. You say that you lost all hope and all joy when you lost your faith in God, that you see only endless the endless and inescapable emptiness of despair and meaninglessness. What then is this depression and fear that your son's life is going down the toilet? What is this toilet that exists in a meaningless world. You are holding on to something, no? What is it?

You really don't get it? I am living vicariously through my son. It ain't rocket science.

 

[Moonbeam]

You really don't get it? I am living vicariously through my son. It ain't rocket science.

Please, I don't intend to be mean here, but this is what I am hearing: A person who claims that he suffers profoundly from his loss of faith in God is living vicariously through his son, who he views as wasting his life. How is there any life in that? And what if your son is living vicariously through you? Wouldn't it be better if you focused on solving your own existential dilemma before you worried about somebody else's

Remember, that we see the world exactly the same, but with a completely different emotion, and I used to feel just as you describe that you do. For me then, there is a boat load of hope and joy that is a potential for you and your son. I wish both of you the best. In shout I see what I am trying to say as possibly helpful rather than any kind of criticism.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

You really don't get it? I am living vicariously through my son. It ain't rocket science.

Then be a real man and stop this shit.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

The main thing that broke it, imo, is failure to internalize the fact that "equal" does not mean "same."

True. Somewhere along the line those who were for equal access of opportunity ended up going full dumpster mode by misconstruing it so that it meant equal outcome no matter what reality dictates. Part of me believes it may be that those who are at the forefront of this movement (like any other movement that goes on for a very long time) do not really want there to be any progress toward a middle ground because a move toward reason and understanding would eat away at everything they have, i.e. status, respect, admiration, power, etc they get from spearheading these types of movements. So they have to keep going further and further out toward extremism in Robespierre-ian (yeah I just made that up) manner. Got find new enemies, new ways to keep the revolution going even if you have to create "false flag" events or consume your own or completely take a dump on your original core ideals/principles.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

True. Somewhere along the line those who were for equal access of opportunity ended up going full dumpster mode by misconstruing it so that it meant equal outcome no matter what reality dictates. Part of me believes it may be that those who are at the forefront of this movement (like any other movement that goes on for a very long time) do not really want there to be any progress toward a middle ground because a move toward reason and understanding would eat away at everything they have, i.e. status, respect, admiration, power, etc they get from spearheading these types of movements. So they have to keep going further and further out to the extremism in Robespierre-ian (yeah I just made that up) manner. Got find new enemies, new ways to keep the revolution going even if you have to create "false flag" events or consume your own or completely take a dump on your original core ideals/principles.

art philosophy liberal conservative religious scientific: what you said applies to every ideology. Humans are tribal.

 

[Moonbeam]

art philosophy liberal conservative religious scientific: what you said applies to every ideology. Humans are tribal.

And even those who are the least tribal will be accused of being the most tribal by those whose tribal status is most threatened by challenge to their tribal status.

As I see it, you have dropped the notion that feminism is broken into a technical forum dominated by the very kinds of men who are the most threatened and the most hostile to women, and the least emotionally and sexually secure you will find outside perhaps of gang banger culture.

This notion that the problem is that women have moved beyond equal opportunity to demand equal outcome is a profound joke. Women are on the march, but they have miles and miles to go before they their real status in society is comparable to men's. The arrow of sexual insecurity always leads to a desire for sexual control. Insecurity is nothing more than the feeling that one is worthless deeply buried, the feeling that one is sexually worthless is a subset of that feeling that expresses in all matters of relationship that are sexual. The great fear of men is that they are not needed, but it's their neediness that nobody needs, including them.

Always the ego of neediness masks and dominates the true self that has everything to give.

 

[Conscript]

Feminism is alive and well

http://mashable.com/2015/11/23/blogger-bread-vagina-yeast/#VYvxI544caqw

 

[Exophase]

Feminism is alive and well

http://mashable.com/2015/11/23/blogger-bread-vagina-yeast/#VYvxI544caqw

I was tempted to post this here...

Not really because this cooking project is supposed to have anything to do with feminism. It's just some gross idea being done by someone who happens to be a feminist.

But the responses she wrote on her blogpost...

This guy wrote:

"Candida albicans is a fungus not bacteria"

To which she responded:

"THANKS FOR THE MANSPLANATION. This would be why it says “vaginal yeast” repeatedly throughout the article. And in the title."

But she called her yeast bacterial several times in the blog post. So it was a pretty fair correction. But because it was done by a man (presumably?) it's "mansplanation."

And this:

"I’m at complete loss that you didn’t expect people to be horrified by your actions. If a man jizzed into a milkshake and and thought it was completely normal to drink it and asked you to drink it I’m fairly certain you would say no…
Absolutely disgusting."

Got this response:

"You… you do realise there’s a difference between semen and yeast, right?
…right?
Oh god, men are shit at biology."

I mean really, "men are shit at biology"? I don't think I really need to say anything more about this.

I know, people are going to say this sort of attitude is really rare and isolated. But it really isn't. It's not hard to see where this kind of thinking comes from, and it's pretty pervasive in feminist circles today. And not just the nobodies writing blogs but all over the media. When others see these kinds of attitudes promoted and rewarded it naturally encourages more of it.

And you know, you can still fight for better representation and treatment for women in various parts of society while calling this sort of thing out. It's not either-or.

 

[Moonbeam]

Bread yeast is from the Saccharomycetaceae family.

Human yeast infections are generally Candida albicans.

I am gathering materials for a old interest I've had for years, learning how to bake, and yeast has been on my mind, including fantasies of going to different bakeries and collecting dust that might harbor good sourdough starter yeast. Bread yeast, I think is probably everywhere and would contaminate any sample taken from a vagina would be my guess.

For people who hate themselves, negative attention is better than no attention, hence the fascination with attempting to be disgusting. Women can have extra self esteem problems resulting from traditional gender discrimination including slut behavior.

 

[feralkid]

snip.

That is clearly sexism, not feminism.

 

[Exophase]

That is clearly sexism, not feminism.

Can't it be both?

In mainstream feminism today sexism (and other "isms") has been given a "power + privilege" definition women can't be sexist and men can't receive sexism because men have power and women don't. This is in academia, and in sociology, not just gender studies. And it's repeated by all sorts of pop-feminists today, from Laci Green to Anita Sarkeesian. That is as mainstream as you get. Concepts like mansplaining are also pretty mainstream and get thrown around a lot (usually unfairly).

Maybe both of these ideas are innocuous on the face of things but they make mentality's like Zoe Savri's pretty much inevitable.

Yeah I know, feminism is supposed to be about equality, they're not True Feminists, etc. When it comes to what a group is about I tend to go with the things they say that are actually widely accepted and repeated and not what they're "supposed" to be.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

And even those who are the least tribal will be accused of being the most tribal by those whose tribal status is most threatened by challenge to their tribal status.

And they will think they are being repressed because of it.

 

[NAC4EV]

 

[Moonbeam]

And they will think they are being repressed because of it.

Hehehehehe, you can say that again.

I have listened as openly as I can to the anti SJW antagonism I read on this forum, the complaint that women have gone off the rails and I can see some merit in those claims. The left is as dangerous as the right when it is filled with angry certainty. But while I can see and appreciate some of that, my particular feeling is that we are at this present time and place in history, far and away more at risk from the authoritarian right. I could be wrong but I don't think so.

 

[Exophase]

the complaint that women have gone off the rails

No, not this, not anything like this.

I don't know if anyone here has been saying something like that but if they are they should be called out in the strongest terms. A critique of feminists or feminism is not a critique of women, even if you're directing it towards all people who call themselves feminists - and I would hardly go that far either (eg, my girlfriend identifies as a feminist but she doesn't agree with the things that I take issue with that are common with pop media feminists today, and I don't disagree with anything she does believe in)

 

[Ancalagon44]

@Exophase

There are feminists who think that all men should be exterminated, that women suffer more than men in war, or that males being raped in prison is funny. The typical feminist defense is to claim that these people are "not feminists". It's the No True Scotsman fallacy of course.

If anybody attacks feminism however, they are accused of being misogynistic. Feminists like to paint the picture that one cannot be against feminism without also being sexist against women. However, I am not sexist - I just don't think feminism is good for either women or men (in the majority of its forms).

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

That is clearly sexism, not feminism.

Equivalency to reverse racism (a'la Black Lives Matter movement). They take their agenda so far that it bleeds into the direction that they were once fighting against.

 

[Moonbeam]

@Exophase

There are feminists who think that all men should be exterminated, that women suffer more than men in war, or that males being raped in prison is funny. The typical feminist defense is to claim that these people are "not feminists". It's the No True Scotsman fallacy of course.

If anybody attacks feminism however, they are accused of being misogynistic. Feminists like to paint the picture that one cannot be against feminism without also being sexist against women. However, I am not sexist - I just don't think feminism is good for either women or men (in the majority of its forms).

As any true Scotsman would.

 

[Moonbeam]

No, not this, not anything like this.

I don't know if anyone here has been saying something like that but if they are they should be called out in the strongest terms. A critique of feminists or feminism is not a critique of women, even if you're directing it towards all people who call themselves feminists - and I would hardly go that far either (eg, my girlfriend identifies as a feminist but she doesn't agree with the things that I take issue with that are common with pop media feminists today, and I don't disagree with anything she does believe in)

Not what or anything like what? How do I know if what you heard in my words was what I intended in my words or if my words were the words I should have used. Since I don't really know, I am going to go with the notion that you are deaf and don't hear what I hear in this forum as the result of your bad hearing, not mine. Sorry!

 

[Subyman]

Funny how that cartoon focuses on how naked a woman can be as her barometer of freedom. :\

 

[Ancalagon44]

Funny how that cartoon focuses on how naked a woman can be as her barometer of freedom. :\

I think you completely missed the point of that cartoon.

For the Muslim lady, the Western lady appears to exist in a male dominated culture because she only dresses that way in order to impress men.

For the Western lady, the Muslim lady appears to exist in a male dominated culture because she only dresses that way to conform to the regulations required by her religion, and those regulations are decided upon and enforced by men.

 

[NAC4EV]

she only dresses that way to conform to the regulations required by her religion, and those regulations are decided upon and enforced by men.

Just for the record: The wearing of a burka is not a requirement of the Qur'an.