FF XIV ONLINE - Anyone playing?

[TidusZ]

Comparing everything to WoW is your problem. This isn't WoW, and people need to stop using that as a benchmark. If WoW is your game, then stick with it. If you try something that focuses on different aspects of gameplay, expect your standards to accept those differences.

For me, this game ecompasses adventure, storytelling, unique character building, and a sense of hard-core small party gameplay and talent exploration of each players skillset. It's also beautiful and refreshing just to look at.

After playing small resolution textured and polygon modeled games for so long (it's 2013, yo!), you start to demand something more visually entertaining, rather than have to resort to a typical single player RPG every now and then for that requirement. This is the essence of the Final Fantasy series, so I see nothing wrong here.

The moment I play something that "feels" like WoW, I start to lose interest. Rift, TERA, Aion, GW2, SW: KotoR, and Warhammer Online all lost my interest pretty quickly because of that focus. (All of those games held my interest with other unique qualities, but they primarily lost it since the focus to become the next WoW was so abundant.) The big problem I have with this game is they obviously catered the quest system to that standard. However, it's not to the point of losing its FF quality, if you will. So, I'll see it through a little further rather than dismiss it outright.

I see this game being a challenge at end-game with small parties, and that's really what I'm after when it comes down to it.

Also, don't forget this is still beta. The game will likely have more to it when it releases than what meets the eye now.

Edit: What was the purpose of mentioning you were considered the top healer? Is that to say you aren't seeing a healer class or are you just touting your peen?

My reasoning for not liking the game isn't that it's not like WoW - it's that the combat is not engaging at all. There is no depth. The graphics are very good and the game seems quite polished, but the combat for me is top priority and its just very weak here. I was fine with the combat in Neverwinter, which is pretty much the polar opposite of WoW (though I do prefer the depth of rift/wow more than the superior feel of neverwinter). The fact that the first many hours of the game is fetch quest after fetch quest would be alright in my books if the combat had promise.

I have serious doubts that the endgame will have challenges that are overcome by skill as I don't see a skillcap really existing with the combat model they have here. Any game can be made difficult by simply tweaking some numbers, but to actually require skill in the form of knowledge and ability requires some depth that I'm not seeing.

I mentioned my experience in WoW for the reasons others here have done. People play MMOs for different reasons. Some people play MMO's fairly casually and some devote a large chunk of their life to playing, theorycrafting, analyzing, etc, every aspect of one or more MMOs. For the latter, the thing that really attracts players like me is ultimately the combat, pve or pvp, and that requires depth, skillcap, good UI/controls, etc. I would argue that people who are hardcore pve/pvp MMO players are more qualified to critique those aspects of the game.

 

[pandemonium]

You would probably say that there wasn't any depth or challenge with FFXI's combat system, too. However, at end-game, that game was extremely challenging for most people. It was the smallest of mistakes or mistiming of abilities that meant life or death. I suspect the same will be true for this game as well (though, probably to a lesser degree).

Number of abilities does not necessarily equate to challenge. My highest class is only 24; however, I have several classes 10-20 (disciples of war, magic, hand, and land included). I'm noticing that this version of the game doesn't really start until around ~30 with several other jobs leveled for an arrangement of other skills to choose from. The unique arrangement of what you can do with certain skills will certainly add some challenge and individuality to the game. Also, there are a lot of things that are 'locked' from access until you do their prerequisite quests. It may seem dumb to have a quest for being able to dye your armor, but that's part of what FF is...there's a story and a reason behind everything. It's part of what makes their games so entrancing and rewarding when you do finally hit the top. It requires you to have a certain amount of respect for the time you put into getting that high, and others will have that same respect as well.

I'd also argue that people that do timed raids, organized partying, highly organized PvP arrangement, or even mathematical theorycrafting, et.al, have a higher degree of understanding than the casual player. That goes without saying.

The point I'm making here is that there are different aspects to player skill testing than what you're seeing with WoW and its clones. I don't really think you have a basis of understanding how that is possible within the context of this game since you haven't experienced it yourself. Yes, the combat is boring and unengaging at first. I'm not sure how you can say for certain that the end game will be just as dull. [At this point your application is warranted. ]

 

[TidusZ]

at end-game, that game was extremely challenging for most people. It was the smallest of mistakes or mistiming of abilities that meant life or death. I suspect the same will be true for this game as well (though, probably to a lesser degree).

Just got bad flashbacks from first week of diablo 3 on my DH

 

[PowerYoga]

So you played the beta for how long before you decided it was dull? I remember the archer not having much to work with until it gets shadowbind and that's right around lvl 15. Even then I'm seeing a lot more interesting abilities opening up at around 30-35. Shit, in vanilla FF11 you don't get much options to do anything until lvl 18, which is when you can first equip subjobs...

For wow as a mage I spammed fireball or frost bolt pretty much all the way up until lvl 50, with frost nova and blink here and there. Now that shit was boring. Leveling in any game is always pretty boring, its really the endgame content that counts and FF11 had that shit down in Aces of spades. I'm hoping FF14 will be the same.

 

[diesbudt]

You would probably say that there wasn't any depth or challenge with FFXI's combat system, too. However, at end-game, that game was extremely challenging for most people. It was the smallest of mistakes or mistiming of abilities that meant life or death. I suspect the same will be true for this game as well (though, probably to a lesser degree).

Number of abilities does not necessarily equate to challenge. My highest class is only 24; however, I have several classes 10-20 (disciples of war, magic, hand, and land included). I'm noticing that this version of the game doesn't really start until around ~30 with several other jobs leveled for an arrangement of other skills to choose from. The unique arrangement of what you can do with certain skills will certainly add some challenge and individuality to the game. Also, there are a lot of things that are 'locked' from access until you do their prerequisite quests. It may seem dumb to have a quest for being able to dye your armor, but that's part of what FF is...there's a story and a reason behind everything. It's part of what makes their games so entrancing and rewarding when you do finally hit the top. It requires you to have a certain amount of respect for the time you put into getting that high, and others will have that same respect as well.

I'd also argue that people that do timed raids, organized partying, highly organized PvP arrangement, or even mathematical theorycrafting, et.al, have a higher degree of understanding than the casual player. That goes without saying.

The point I'm making here is that there are different aspects to player skill testing than what you're seeing with WoW and its clones. I don't really think you have a basis of understanding how that is possible within the context of this game since you haven't experienced it yourself. Yes, the combat is boring and unengaging at first. I'm not sure how you can say for certain that the end game will be just as dull. [At this point your application is warranted. ]

The only issue is, I cannot take your posts too seriously. A lot of the MMOs out there are quite different you really cannot call them WoW clones anymore. Just because it is an MMO does not make it a "wow-clone". Most people generally just use the term WoW-clone for any MMO. Thus people stick those titles on many MMOs and people accept it. Example: Guild Wars 2 is as different from WoW, as FF14 redone is.

So the way you write off all other MMOs as wow clones yet FF14 not, makes your comment sound like a "fanboy" comment, and not true facts/whatever.

I have Played almost all MMOs out there along with beta in FF14, and I agree that FF14 is kind of dull in the combat department. Which I believe is the defining factor in MMOs as it gives not only depth but submersion into the game. FF14 is more turn based-ish, which is fine and based on the "Final Fantasy" genre. Just it won't be too popular of a style, as the faster paced action one hooks people much easier.

My only gear grind with Final Fantasy is ever since FF: X the series just seems to have thrown the things I have enjoyed about it to the side to try and make it more action, or more steampunk, or more futuristic, instead of "Fantasy".

 

[CWRMadcat]

I played a bit of the beta on one weekend and was impressed. Does anyone know if FF14 is going to adopt the WoW method of LFR/LFD style queueing? If so, I'm going to have to take a pass on this game.

 

[ImpulsE69]

Honestly I don't know if I'm cut out for these type of MMO's. I find it pretty boring so far with the couple hours I played it.. Really, it feels more or less like Tera as a whole.

I don't really see this as turn based either as everyone keeps saying because it's all active and on timers which just means ultimately, no matter how you spin it, spam spam spam when the timer counts down. While I'm sure there is more strategy involved in higher levels and groups, it still comes down to button mashing bosses based on your role. Also, are there any instances where monsters attack the players w/o the player initiating? Or multiple monsters at once? Maybe it's just the beginner area I'm in, but that seemed kind of odd.

I'm not knocking this game in particular, but these type of MMO's in general. I've tried a handful of them, and they all leave me feeling the same way. I'll continue to play it thru the beta, to see if my opinion changes, but I will probably end up selling off my copy of the game.

 

[ShadowOfMyself]

So you played the beta for how long before you decided it was dull? I remember the archer not having much to work with until it gets shadowbind and that's right around lvl 15. Even then I'm seeing a lot more interesting abilities opening up at around 30-35. Shit, in vanilla FF11 you don't get much options to do anything until lvl 18, which is when you can first equip subjobs...

For wow as a mage I spammed fireball or frost bolt pretty much all the way up until lvl 50, with frost nova and blink here and there. Now that shit was boring. Leveling in any game is always pretty boring, its really the endgame content that counts and FF11 had that shit down in Aces of spades. I'm hoping FF14 will be the same.

This kind of thinking right here makes me sad... People have been so brainwashed by WoW that they think every MMO is like that
Back in 2004 this kind of combat was acceptable because there wasnt anything better out there, but in the last couple years with more and more action games showing up, its become completely obsolete

Leveling is NOT boring in every game... If leveling is boring, it already means something is wrong with the combat system, because you should have FUN killing stuff
Have people completely forgotten this? THIS is what made games like Diablo such huge hits, you could kill thousands and thousands of monsters for months and it was a blast
Most of us just remade characters over and over to try new builds and such, and it was so much fun every time

Nowadays, people act like leveling is this "Ewwww, do I really have to do that? Please just give me a button that takes me to the cap instantly"
Then, they are the cap and they go "WTF Im already max level and there is nothing to do! Your game sucks"

Hilarious, just hilarious

Going back to FFXIV, the fact that Square expects people to "endure" 50 levels of complete boredom in hopes of having interesting end game content is ALREADY bad game design... The game should be fun FROM THE GET GO
And unlike what many people claim, the number of skills you have has NOTHING to do with it... In fact I hate having to micro manage skills, if I wanted that kind of gameplay Id play Starcraft instead
Right now every skill in the game does the exact same thing with the exact same strength and a different visual, other than heals or the usual stun
Play a Marauder and then play an Archer, which should be two completely different classes... Yet the gameplay doesnt change whatsoever

In a game with GOOD combat, every class feels completely unique, and you know this by becoming good at one, switching to another, and failing hard until you adapt - THAT is the sign of good design

The game is pretty good in every other aspect though, thats what makes it so hard to swallow... Id more excited if it was about Chocobo racing honestly, because thats a lot more fun than the combat

 

[darkewaffle]

I can't think of any game where the first 10/20/30% of levels don't pretty much suck. Or more accurately, do not pale in comparison to having a full fledged character. Some action RPGs perhaps, but the more actiony you make a game, the less that character growth tends to matter/mean anyway imo.

Right now every skill in the game does the exact same thing with the exact same strength and a different visual, other than heals or the usual stun

You clearly haven't looked very closely, or at least beyond the initial "auto"/basic attacks. Even between lancer and marauder my play experience was significantly different. Marauder has much better AoE and damage reduction (via gear), but Lancer gets some range. Lancer's self healing is much better when you're in danger but less consistent. Lancer also doesn't DPS as well while soloing and has better party functionality because they can take advantage of attacks requiring the opponent's back to be turned while also being able to slow the target, helping to protect the tank. Lancer also has abilities to recover TP, making them better suited for extended fights.

The subjob comparison is quite accurate really. Classes in XIV become significantly more versatile as you level more of them and mix and match different support abilities to suit different roles and playstyles. However reaching that point does put you through the 'introduction' and 'rising action' where the groundwork is being laid, but it isn't firing on all cylinders yet. Even crafting benefits from you having other support abilities from different crafts available.

FFXI is the only game I can recall where levelling was a legitimately fun and deep activity, but even then there was a lot of frustration and arduousness to it as a consequence.

THIS is what made games like Diablo such huge hits, you could kill thousands and thousands of monsters for months and it was a blast
Most of us just remade characters over and over to try new builds and such, and it was so much fun every time

No, no it was not. It seems very curious to cite Diablo as a source of good combat when "GOOD combat" requires "every class feeling completely unique" lol. Left click AoE attack, pickup loot, repeat.

In a game with GOOD combat, every class feels completely unique, and you know this by becoming good at one, switching to another, and failing hard until you adapt - THAT is the sign of good design

That's a pretty absurd generalization. Some of the best gameplay I've experienced comes from those games that make switching between characters intuitive and logical, such as Bloodline Champions, or that make distinctions between characters come more from build than from buttonpresses (NWN). I think the obsession with "every class has to be completely unique" leads to overproducing faux-content (League of Legends), lackluster balance (TF2), and class over-exclusion/inclusion ("can't raid without Bloodlust" circa 2008 WoW).

The combat is not the best part of the game, but it works and is at least on par with other games imo. But even then it's improved since phase 2 by making TP management more important and less of an endless resource. I think it can only get better as the game is explored, new abilities unlocked (via class guild quests), new classes unlocked, more classes levelled, and more sub-ability slots obtained. Imagining you've got a complete picture of how the game will ultimately play as everything stands currently would not be that different from judging FFXI with only it's base six jobs and no subjobs available; very shortsighted.

 

[Aikouka]

This kind of thinking right here makes me sad... People have been so brainwashed by WoW that they think every MMO is like that
Back in 2004 this kind of combat was acceptable because there wasnt anything better out there, but in the last couple years with more and more action games showing up, its become completely obsolete

Leveling is NOT boring in every game... If leveling is boring, it already means something is wrong with the combat system, because you should have FUN killing stuff

I think that you're just trying to place your desires of what you'd like to see in a game onto other people. Some people may not find leveling that enthralling because they realize that it's nothing more than a gateway into the (hopefully existing) end-game content.

Since you seem so adamant about action-style combat, you probably ought to just look at Wildstar.

 

[pandemonium]

The only issue is, I cannot take your posts too seriously. A lot of the MMOs out there are quite different you really cannot call them WoW clones anymore. Just because it is an MMO does not make it a "wow-clone". Most people generally just use the term WoW-clone for any MMO. Thus people stick those titles on many MMOs and people accept it. Example: Guild Wars 2 is as different from WoW, as FF14 redone is.

So the way you write off all other MMOs as wow clones yet FF14 not, makes your comment sound like a "fanboy" comment, and not true facts/whatever.

I have Played almost all MMOs out there along with beta in FF14, and I agree that FF14 is kind of dull in the combat department. Which I believe is the defining factor in MMOs as it gives not only depth but submersion into the game. FF14 is more turn based-ish, which is fine and based on the "Final Fantasy" genre. Just it won't be too popular of a style, as the faster paced action one hooks people much easier.

My only gear grind with Final Fantasy is ever since FF: X the series just seems to have thrown the things I have enjoyed about it to the side to try and make it more action, or more steampunk, or more futuristic, instead of "Fantasy".

Ahh, another person that has only played the beta limitedly and not FFXIV (V1) or FFXI - making comments about things they really don't know about. <3


Here, let me define WoW clone for you:

• Smooth gameplay
• Easy to navigate UI
• Quick-click, fetch quest system that no one reads
• Button mashing combat
• Gear grind through instanced dungeons
• An uncanny urge to jump around a lot for no real reason
• Limited PvP engagement

The aforementioned games in my previous post weren't identical clones, but they had their obvious similarities. Read the context in which I was talking. I already said they each had their own unique qualities, but it was pretty blatantly obvious they were modeled after WoW's success [read: the game].

I'm not going to list each and every detail, because, frankly, I don't have that kind of time.

So stop judging what I say based on your own inexperience, and go experience it instead; maybe. Then come back and we'll have a discussion.

Also, please read more thoroughly:

The big problem I have with this game is they obviously catered the quest system to that standard. However, it's not to the point of losing its FF quality, if you will. So, I'll see it through a little further rather than dismiss it outright.

 

[ImpulsE69]

Here, let me define WoW clone for you:

• Smooth gameplay
• Easy to navigate UI
• Quick-click, fetch quest system that no one reads
• Button mashing combat
• Gear grind through instanced dungeons
• An uncanny urge to jump around a lot for no real reason
• Limited PvP engagement

This pretty much sums up my impression of FFXIV so far. You can try to make it deeper than it is, but this is what I've been doing and watching everyone else doing for about 12 hours now (minus PVP).

I do not see that this is really that different from the 50 other adventure MMO's out. That being said if you enjoy the old school FF universe, the story elements that are there are enjoyable. I'm sure that the core storylines are interesting once you get into them, and like most of these MMO's your party interactions will make or break the game.

As I've gained more levels/abilities combat is a bit more enjoyable, but it's still just 1 button mashing, with a few odd and end buttons here or there.

Considering this is revamped (never played the original version) and it is supposed to be so much better, I am curious what actually changed for the better, because so far, it's just...standard stuff.

 

[Rinaun]

This pretty much sums up my impression of FFXIV so far. You can try to make it deeper than it is, but this is what I've been doing and watching everyone else doing for about 12 hours now (minus PVP).

I do not see that this is really that different from the 50 other adventure MMO's out. That being said if you enjoy the old school FF universe, the story elements that are there are enjoyable. I'm sure that the core storylines are interesting once you get into them, and like most of these MMO's your party interactions will make or break the game.

As I've gained more levels/abilities combat is a bit more enjoyable, but it's still just 1 button mashing, with a few odd and end buttons here or there.

Considering this is revamped (never played the original version) and it is supposed to be so much better, I am curious what actually changed for the better, because so far, it's just...standard stuff.

This is 100% how I feel about the issue as well. To me, they removed anything that defined it as a Final Fantasy game in terms of gameplay mechanics. What I don't get is why there are a few people in the thread that have a "my shit don't stink" attitude regarding the game.

FFXIV feels a ton like WoW/mmo rehash and I'd play FFXI over XIV in its current state. If you don't agree that's fine, but it's no excuse to tear apart every single person who disagrees that this game isn't the next big hit in the MMO world (hint: it's not). Not saying it will do bad, but it's nothing to write home about. I still think FFXI will be much larger for quite some time.

 

[ShadowOfMyself]

The only people defending the game are fanboys pretty much... Ive been arguing back and forth in the official beta forums for the past few days and the VAST majority of people agree on the combat being terrible

The funny part is, people dont even agree on what exactly makes it bad... Some say its the GCD being too long, some the lack of skill variety (my view), some that there arent enough skills, and of course those who want action combat (which I would love but I know wont happen)
That speaks volumes to how much is wrong with it

There was this one guy who made a thread saying basically "game sucks but Ill buy it anyway because I love final fantasy and I want to support square"
I just lol'd... With people like that, no wonder developers keep making shitty clones to milk everyone

And the worst offender is Square thinking this thing is worth a subscription model
I think the game will flop just like the first version, only being played by the most hardcore fans who are stuck in time and fail to realize how much the genre has improved lately

 

[darkewaffle]

official beta forums

I would consider the official forum for any given game the absolute worst place possible to actually discuss or find reasonable opinions of any given game.

The combat isn't the draw to any MMO imo. It's always lackluster and Square isn't in a position to take any major risks given XIV's history and XI's eternally minor (if loyal) playerbase when they did bother to create something out of the ordinary.

But looking at combat as the solely defining component of the game is really missing what Square is able to do with an MMO. They've only got two of them admittedly, but judged off the combat alone, FFXI is a poor game. What Square did with FFXI (better than anyone else to this day imo) is create depth and give life to virtual world. XIV can't achieve that instantly (nor should you expect it to, XI has a decade of community/expansions/development behind it) but if it can eventually recreate that I think it'll pull a lot of people in. It's what I'm looking for[ward to] most.

 

[PowerYoga]

I absolutely hated FF14 in its first incarnation (search for my past post history if you like) but ARR is actually very immersive, which I feel is the most important part of any MMORPG. You can't sugarcoat a shitty world and expect people to give a damn. (TERA I'm looking at you)

Combat is a bit boring until you start mixing and matching various skills from different classes, but I think it stayed fairly true to the FF11 roots and there's a lot of strategic value that will come into play in higher levels. FF11 wasn't exactly enthralling either until they released the first expansion pack, which coincided with the NA release, you forget they had years to tune FF11 and FF14 is still in beta.

I actually felt the game to start opening up as I hit lvl 15 on GLD, the first dungeon as well as a bunch of levequests became accessible. I started looking at different skill combinations, which is great as it sort of balances out your role for either soloing or for grouping. The job system seems to have a lot of potential, and while the game needs a bit more tuning I can see the possibilities later on. I actually traveled all over the game world looking and piecing together various class skills so I can be both effective at tanking as well as for soloing.

The crafting is fun, which is more than what I can say in comparison to any other MMORPG where you click a button and wait for the progress bar to fill up 50 times. I've had more fun with the first 10 levels of crafting in this game than I did with most other mmorpgs i've played to date. HQing stuff is actually fairly fun and strategic as well and relies more on skill than randomness. The only other game where I played that had sort of a decent crafting system was Ragnarok Online almost 10 years ago.

 

[railven]

As an 8 year WoW player, I've got to say, there are tons of other MMOs with combat that is more interesting (for me at least.) But at the end of the day, aren't they all the same?

I've stopped playing alot of F2P MMOs because I realized - after the freshness of a new UI, new graphics, and new class, I'll be doing the same thing I always do in WoW:

Pressing 4-5 buttons in a specific order unless something procs while staying out of fire.

After my best friend stopped playing WoW with me I realized - that game is insanely boring. And I started to hate my guildies that underperformed (thanks to the difficulty curve of ToT.)

With that crap out of the way as someone who played FFXI and FFXII, I really am not looking forward to a menu drive combat experience (which ultimately is the same as pressing a few buttons, instead you are pressing even more if you haven't dont your macro bar but if you hadn't you're a noob, right?), and found the combat in FFXIV refreshing. Sure, I was pressing the same 2-3 buttons up until level 14, but something about it felt...different.

Must be the fresh paint on the genre. I'm sure before long I'll realize I'm just wasting my life smashing keys trying not to die to fires haha.

I need to get back to the days when I played games for stories and adventure, not rewards. And I hope FFXIV is the one that does it for me. I'm going to take my time playing that game. And I'm going to enjoy it.

EDIT:

This comic hit home.
http://www.darklegacycomics.com/394.html

 

[Agent11]

I'm trying to enjoy it, I really dislike fetch and talk missions though and there seems to be way too many of them.

 

[KaOTiK]

lol of funny little things in the game, this one gave me a chuckle.

 

[darkewaffle]

For being a Japanese company, SE's localization and translation teams have always been quite good (for English at least). There's always a lot of little goofy jokes/names/puns throughout quests and dialogue.

 

[PowerYoga]

I'm trying to enjoy it, I really dislike fetch and talk missions though and there seems to be way too many of them.

That's one thing I really dislike about the missions. It's all "kill me 5 xxx" or "get me this thing here". The guildleves are often times are the same except you have a time limit.

I'm hoping there's more epic story quests like in FF11 when they flesh out the lvl 30+ content.

 

[ShadowOfMyself]

Yes, the game is really immersive, and has something about it that keeps you playing despite everything else... Normally a game with combat like this doesnt last more than an hour for me, yet I played through the whole 5 days of the last beta week

Hopefully they are listening to players and improve the combat later... We are too close to launch so I doubt anything will be done until then

Also fun fact: Ive just been banned from the beta forums for posting about the stupid 20 post limit per day (yes, that forum only allows you to do 1 post every 10 minutes, and 20 posts per day, absolutely retarded)

Whoever runs that forum is an asswipe, there is trolling and flaming going around everywhere, and I get banned for complaining about something like that? My god, must have hurt the poor moderators feelings or something

 

[PowerYoga]

I think lowering the GCD just a tad would make combat better, but there's obvious balance issues to think of when you do something like that. I don't mind the pace of the combat, and when I went through dungeons the first time I had a few "oh shit I'm out of MP and the mob is on the caster" moments, so you can't really just spam abilities.

When you're soloing yeah anything goes, whatever kills the mob. I'm loling at FF11's war/whm setup actually working fairly well here.

 

[pandemonium]

Guys, let me reiterate the fact that the open beta will likely be vastly different than the closed.

We're all complaining about the combat, but it was very limited compared to what it will be. TP was instantly set at 1000. In open beta it'll be 3000 and you won't have it in endless supply. Tactics come into play here, which changes the combat dramatically.

Wait a couple weeks for the open beta to hit, then give it another try to get a good idea of what the "real" game will be like.

 

[darkewaffle]

Guys, let me reiterate the fact that the open beta will likely be vastly different than the closed.

I haven't seen anything to indicate that personally. I also don't see how TP allegedly shifting from 1000 to 3000 addresses makes it not in more supply lol.