Fiesta ST versus Civic Si

[SaltyNuts]

Just as between the two, which would you get, and why? Performance seems to be pretty similar. Looks are... subjective, but I like the Fiesta ST looks a lot better. The Honda is probably better built/longer lasting, of course...

Thanks!

 

[jlee]

What years are you looking at? What do you want to do with it?

 

[SaltyNuts]

Brand new jiee, fun little daily driver.

 

[Rifter]

honda over ford any day of the week.

 

[HarryLui]

Test drive both and see which you like best?

 

[mindless1]

Absolutely not the Fiesta because Ford is stopping production, so only (two?) model years on the redesign including the new engine, which means parts availability may dry up (including parts at junkyards too) resale value may tank, and DIY peer support on web forums will dwindle as well with no new owners after this last model year.

Granted, AFAIK they'll still sell them in Europe so maybe it'll just be a PITA to get support instead of impossible.

 

[sdifox]

Absolutely not the Fiesta because Ford is stopping production, so only (two?) model years on the redesign including the new engine, which means parts availability may dry up (including parts at junkyards too) resale value may tank, and DIY peer support on web forums will dwindle as well with no new owners after this last model year.

Granted, AFAIK they'll still sell them in Europe so maybe it'll just be a PITA to get support instead of impossible.

They still have to have ten year of parts. Not very impressed by Honda quality lately.

 

[jlee]

They still have to have ten year of parts. Not very impressed by Honda quality lately.

I actually looked that up the other day and it didn't appear to be the case.

Other than interior parts and uncommon things like speedometer cables, I can still maintain my 28 yo MR2. Parts stick around for a while.

 

[Hail The Brain Slug]

Stock vs. stock, the Civic Si bests the FoST around the track in the VIR Lightning Lap. The FiST is literally no competition performance wise.

Remember, the Si was not designed for straight line speed. While it has plenty of pep, you won't be able to see it shine until you go around some corners.

Also, the OEM all season tires are shit.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Honda quality is definitely not what it used to be. Not impressed with my wife's 17 Honda crv.

I'd go with either one depending on which you like the best. I don't think Honda is any better than Ford these days quality wise.

 

[SaltyNuts]

Absolutely not the Fiesta because Ford is stopping production, so only (two?) model years on the redesign including the new engine, which means parts availability may dry up (including parts at junkyards too) resale value may tank, and DIY peer support on web forums will dwindle as well with no new owners after this last model year.

Granted, AFAIK they'll still sell them in Europe so maybe it'll just be a PITA to get support instead of impossible.

I don't think this is the case mindless1 - the current U.S. Fiesta has been around for a looong time. Europe got a new one recently, but we are not getting it over here. Do you know something I don't?

Thanks!

 

[sdifox]

I actually looked that up the other day and it didn't appear to be the case.

Other than interior parts and uncommon things like speedometer cables, I can still maintain my 28 yo MR2. Parts stick around for a while.

Interesting, I it heard recently on radio. Maybe it is a Canada thing. They were talking about GM Oshawa closure.

 

[pauldun170]

As far as I know,
Fiesta ST - More grins per mile when its just you and an empty twisty road. Watch item? Actuator for the blend door
Civic SI - Almost as fun and a more useable back seat. More reasonable daily driver. Watch item? Rev hang is supposed to be extra bad on these cars.

Civic wins spec war. Fiesta makes you care less about numbers.

 

[mindless1]

I don't think this is the case mindless1 - the current U.S. Fiesta has been around for a looong time. Europe got a new one recently, but we are not getting it over here. Do you know something I don't?

Being around for a long time means nothing when it comes to parts exclusive to the new generation, including the engine, and any tranny changes. Body panels, trim, etc, there will be a limited supply then limited at salvage yards. I guess there's always duct tape and bondo?

Short runs of a vehicle have another problem. OEM parts, especially once rarer (cheapest sellers sell out) can become much more expensive than similar quality 1st tier aftermarket, and yet the aftermarket may not even deem it worthwhile to develop parts that have a market of only a couple years, especially if tariffs are going to increase their landed price.

Would you really want to import parts from Europe for a domestic economy car? I wouldn't, unless this was instead some rare old classic car that would appreciate rather than depreciate in value, even if it weren't a Ford vs Honda depreciation curve.

To me it seems a fools gamble, with no win, where if lucky you merely don't lose as much.

 

[pauldun170]

Being around for a long time means nothing when it comes to parts exclusive to the new generation, including the engine, and any tranny changes. Body panels, trim, etc, there will be a limited supply then limited at salvage yards. I guess there's always duct tape and bondo?

Short runs of a vehicle have another problem. OEM parts, especially once rarer (cheapest sellers sell out) can become much more expensive than similar quality 1st tier aftermarket, and yet the aftermarket may not even deem it worthwhile to develop parts that have a market of only a couple years, especially if tariffs are going to increase their landed price.

Would you really want to import parts from Europe for a domestic economy car? I wouldn't, unless this was instead some rare old classic car that would appreciate rather than depreciate in value, even if it weren't a Ford vs Honda depreciation curve.

To me it seems a fools gamble, with no win, where if lucky you merely don't lose as much.

I can get parts for an Isuzu Axiom and a Suzuki XL7.
I think he will be fine with a mass produced car from a manufacturer who still manufactures that car he is looking at it around the world.
I also doubt he will be keeping the car for multiple decades and parts availability is going to be an issue.

 

[WhiteNoise]

I'm a Ford guy so the Fiesta gets my vote. Plus it's a nicer looking compact.

 

[mindless1]

^ You can get "some" parts, or "all" parts? Right now I have a Ford that had an engine change for two years. The fuel pressure regulator went out of stock years ago. No aftermarket part exists. When it fails I will have to fabricate an adapter. I doubt most people will be able to do that, nor would any shop unless liability be damned and you're a friend of the owner.

This is just ONE part among thousands that's a show stopper. Of course there are workarounds if you go to a shop proficient at modifications. Open your wallet $$$$.

The question is not what is possible, rather what a PITA and expense there is relative to a Civic, or any other decent quality car that continues to be produced and supported by US suppliers.

If you don't keep the vehicle for multiple decades more than single-digit years, then you encounter the resale depreciation from the aforementioned factors.

Suit yourself, buy whatever you want but there's no way I'd pick the Focus over the Civic. Then again I'm not a small car guy unless it's a cheap commuter to max MPG and save wear on a nicer vehicle.

 

[pauldun170]

^ You can get "some" parts, or "all" parts? Right now I have a Ford that had an engine change for two years. The fuel pressure regulator went out of stock years ago. No aftermarket part exists. When it fails I will have to fabricate an adapter. I doubt most people will be able to do that, nor would any shop unless liability be damned and you're a friend of the owner.

This is just ONE part among thousands that's a show stopper. Of course there are workarounds if you go to a shop proficient at modifications. Open your wallet $$$$.

The question is not what is possible, rather what a PITA and expense there is relative to a Civic, or any other decent quality car that continues to be produced and supported by US suppliers.

If you don't keep the vehicle for multiple decades more than single-digit years, then you encounter the resale depreciation from the aforementioned factors.

Suit yourself, buy whatever you want but there's no way I'd pick the Focus over the Civic. Then again I'm not a small car guy unless it's a cheap commuter to max MPG and save wear on a nicer vehicle.

What year, make, model and trim level Ford do you have where the fuel pressure regulator is out of stock?

 

[mindless1]

^ '98 4.0L SOHC Explorer. Pre-'97 are available, as are post-'98. Even '97 and '98 are available but only for the older OHV 4.0L engine not the SOHC. Many people get that confused until the difference is explained. It has been discontinued for several years now (around a decade?) and no 3rd party ever produced it as far as anyone has found so far..

For the short time it was available, Ford listed it as a $608 part. It is JUST a regulator, not a sending unit assembly. The incompatible yet nearest equivalent for a '96 is $55, so even if it were available it would be highway robbery to pay >$600 for it.

 

[Hail The Brain Slug]

If you're talking parts availability, the Fiesta ST won't come close. Honda has over a million vehicles with the 1.5T in North America alone, and the engine has only been available for a few years. Not to mention the Honda aftermarket is just getting started and there are already a dozen brands for aftermarket performance parts.

As for reliability, Honda outright stated they conservatively tuned the 1.5T in the Si so it would last hundreds of thousands of miles.

I test drove a number of cars - I thought for years I wanted a BRZ but after driving one, I didn't enjoy it. I ended up trying the FiST, FoST, Miata RF, WRX, and GTI but none of them felt right.

I actually had been ignoring the Si all along because it was not my kind of car. Only after I exhausted all other options did I even look at the Si and boy, I had been missing out. It just felt right.

The moral of the story? Go drive both of them, you'll never know if you like one better until you try it. I'd never have bought my Si if I hadn't driven one out of desperation.

 

[NutBucket]

They still have to have ten year of parts. Not very impressed by Honda quality lately.

I actually looked that up the other day and it didn't appear to be the case.

Other than interior parts and uncommon things like speedometer cables, I can still maintain my 28 yo MR2. Parts stick around for a while.

Federal law says 10 years. In reality it's basic supply and demand. So even though Suzuki is out of US market somehow they are still required to supply parts for a decade. I'm not quite sure how that works. My local Suby dealer carries Suzuki parts.

 

[mindless1]

Yeah supply and demand. It doesn't limit fair market value of otherwise equivalent parts.

Since I'm not buying a Fiesta, I'm factored out. I give great support to fellow owners of vehicles I own, so I consider that a premium "help" to others, though today youtube videos help a lot too, but if you love a car enough to face the obstacles, follow your heart. Just don't expect anyone else to follow your heart to make a recommendation.

I just don't see a Focus of any kind being something that appreciates in value, ever. That doesn't mean an owner can't love theirs, but it is what it is. It's a decision about ownership of a vehicle for "fun" but not all that much fun, is not a true sports car.

Even the automaker itself, considers it a dead end. Think about that. It has several ramificiations.

 

[jlee]

Federal law says 10 years. In reality it's basic supply and demand. So even though Suzuki is out of US market somehow they are still required to supply parts for a decade. I'm not quite sure how that works. My local Suby dealer carries Suzuki parts.

Which law is that? This is what I found the other day: https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/...der-us-federal-law-to-provide-parts-for-a-set

 

[zinfamous]

I would go with the Civic simply because Ford has abandoned cars in the US all together. I hate that, because I wanted my next car to be a Ford, but they betrayed me!

The Fiesta is very popular, though. A bit too small for me and I prefer the look and size of the Focus ST. I don't see much reason to be concerned about parts availability though, as there would be plenty of OEM parts available regardless of what genuine Ford parts exist.

I think I'd be very happy with a Civic SI because it's way more practical than the Fiesta and the performance is really quite solid. ...though I think I'd prefer to wait until they wrestle their current styling away from the teenager that they currently employ to design their cars.