Finally encountered a gay hater

[KarenMarie]

Originally posted by: GeekDrew

Originally posted by: Stark
If you can accept that some people (ie straight guys) don't want to go on an Aids Walk with you, don't want to know anything about your love life, and don't want to help you explore your new gay identity in any way, shape or form, you'll probably have a lot more friends.

Not necessarily. I have no inclination to talk about an AIDs Walk, my love life, or sexual identity with any straight man, unless he brings up the topic. That doesn't mean that a lot of people do not think I'm evil for being gay. A lot of people still refuse to be friends with gay people, at least around here. I've taken the policy to come out whenever I join a new environment for a long term stay - i.e. an office, etc. That way I can tell who I will and will not be getting along with immediately, rather than at some time down the road, when it invariably is brought up by someone.

Not to get on your or anything.. this is a serious question...

Did you ever stop to consider that some people might not wanna know, or wanna hear about your preferences? Perhaps they have a 'live and let live' attitude, and once you bring it up, you are putting them on a spot to make a choice... and if they choose not to agree with you, they will be haters.

Please dont misunderstand me.... I am not looking to troll, or falme bait here...

I just think that there are a lof of people who just dont wanna know... dont wanna have to be put on the spot to take a side.

 

[rezinn]

Hey, it saves you the trouble of not being their friends. I'm always looking for reasons to cut someone out of my life, you don't have time for everyone!

 

[GeekDrew]

Originally posted by: KarenMarie
Not to get on your or anything.. this is a serious question...

Did you ever stop to consider that some people might not wanna know, or wanna hear about your preferences? Perhaps they have a 'live and let live' attitude, and once you bring it up, you are putting them on a spot to make a choice... and if they choose not to agree with you, they will be haters.

Please dont misunderstand me.... I am not looking to troll, or falme bait here...

I just think that there are a lof of people who just dont wanna know... dont wanna have to be put on the spot to take a side.

Yes, actually, I did consider that. I don't just walk to up people and say something like "I'm gay. Do you accept it, or do you want to kill me?" <edit> and before someone invariably points it out, NO, not everybody falls within those two categories. </edit>

Normally I just try to bring it up in conversation when I'm not talking to an individual - when there's more than one person there. It's best if I can figure out who the office gossip is; that takes care of my coming out entirely.

I'm not seeking their acceptance or denial. That said, it really pisses me off when people ask why I never talk about my girlfriend, why I never show pictures of her, etc. What should I say then? I'd rather be honest than make something up. Coming out immediately takes care of that nearly all the time.

I'm sure that there *are* a lot of people that just don't want to know. It's a hard choice to make. I wound up at my conclusion because when I was not initially coming out, and instead was developing friendships, going about my business, etc., all hell would break loose when someone eventually found out. That would usually make me feel depressed, because I lost friends every time - though I now don't believe that they were friends at all - but that doesn't make the pain any lesser. At this stage in my life, I can't be someone I'm not - which is what I think that a gay man is doing, if he's not being honest about his sexuality. It's too painful for me to develop relationships, friendships, etc., only to have them destroyed when the truth does come out.

I understand what you're saying, I don't think I've misread what you intend. I too don't want to appear angry, etc., but can you understand my perspective? I've tried not telling anyone. It simply doesn't work with me - be it because someone eventually finds out, or another of my friends outs me, or whatever.

 

[BatmanNate]

I misread your title as "gay heater" and the imagery just blew my mind.

 

[TravisT]

I also choose who I hang out with. Is this such a problem? I don't want to associate with drug dealers, murderers, thieves, and on that same note, homosexuals. Sorry if this offends you, it doesn't mean I hate you, I just don't happen to agree with the lifestyle.

 

[EyeMWing]

Originally posted by: amdforever2
It's been common knowledge I'm gay to my friends and everyone I encounter since July of 2003.

The dramatic coming out, the lost friends, the conflict didn't happen. Surpising? Maybe.

I had maybe 5 people even mention some uncomfortableness, but when they saw I wasn't going to tie them up and paint their nails and cover them with rainbows they were ok. I'm still good friends with everyone.

So for a long time not one single negative side effect.

Well, today I found them.

Two people refuse to associate with me because I'm gay. I'm not particularly devastated, but it's a slight disappointment there are still a few people who choose their friends based on criteria such as these.


I'm in Kansas City, Missouri. It's a pretty conservative area I suppose. I guess I figured I'd run across people like these sooner or later.

*shrug*

/me tenses up and increases distance.

Not. I don't care, it just means there are more girls for me to hump.

 

[EyeMWing]

Originally posted by: acemcmac
pardon me if this sounds ignorant, but what would be so bad about keeping your orientation to yourself?

I had a gay roomate for 9 months and he never felt the need to tell me and I never felt the need to pry. I was the last person to "know." I don't see what's so wrong with that.

Let me guess, you didn't find out until he brought his boyfriend home. "WTF?"

 

[TitanDiddly]

Originally posted by: vshah

Originally posted by: chuckywang
sucks....it's sad that some people are so bigoted.

instead of being big-other-thing-ed

glad to hear you're not too bothered by it amdman. don't let it get to you

BigP&amp;Ned?

 

[KarenMarie]

Originally posted by: GeekDrew

Originally posted by: KarenMarie
Not to get on your or anything.. this is a serious question...

snipped

Yes, actually, I did consider that. I don't just walk to up people and say something like "I'm gay. Do you accept it, or do you want to kill me?" <edit> and before someone invariably points it out, NO, not everbody falls within those two categories. </edit>

Normally I just try to bring it up in conversation when I'm not talking to an individual - when there's more than one person there. It's best if I can figure out who the office gossip is; that takes care of my coming out entirely.

I'm not seeking their acceptance or denial. That said, it really pisses me off when people ask why I never talk about my girlfriend, why I never show pictures of her, etc. What should I say then? I'd rather be honest than make something up. Coming out immediately takes care of that nearly all the time.

I'm sure that there *are* a lot of people that just don't want to know. It's a hard choice to make. I wound up at my conclusion because when I was not initially coming out, and instead was developing friendships, going about my business, etc., all hell would break loose when someone eventually found out. That would usually make me feel depressed, because I lost friends every time - though I now don't believe that they were friends at all - but that doesn't make the pain any lesser. At this stage in my life, I can't be someone I'm not - which is what I think that a gay man is doing, if he's not being honest about his sexuality. It's too painful for me to develop relationships, friendships, etc., only to have them destroyed when the truth does come out.

I understand what you're saying, I don't think I've misread what you intend. I too don't want to appear angry, etc., but can you understand my perspective? I've tried not telling anyone. It simply doesn't work with me - be it because someone eventually finds out, or another of my friends outs me, or whatever.

Ok, through this entire thread, I have not oncegave my opion on a person level, but since you have offered your honest feelings, I will do so in the hopes that we can understand one another...

This thread started by saying that someone was a gay hater, just because they did not agree with and embrace the gay person's lifestyle... I think that was a bit OTT, as there are many that feel as I do...

I am a bit older than most here, and quite conservative. I try to be open minded, and understand where others are coming from...

Personally, I think that homosexuality is not right. I stop at saying it is wrong, as it is not for me to judge. I have no business judging anyone... but to me, it is not right... Having said that, I would never harm anyone for being gay, nor would I stand idly by and watch it happen. One of VeggieFrog's best friends in high school is a gay young man... he has been over loads of times, eaten at my table, and even spent the night on more than one occasion. He is always welcome here... we have had in depth discussions about where we each stand, and are very comfortable with ourselves and each other's stance....

There are times that he will make a remark about another guy, and it will make me cringe. Sorry, but it just doesnt seem right... but I just let it go... if he were to want to bring a boyfriend over, I would not be comfortable with that... if we were out, and he stated making out with another man, I would walk away... would I drop him, no... would I stand by and pretents it is ok with me... no.

Sam understands that I have no bad thoughts or feeling about him and what he does... he also understands that I personally think it is not right... will i ever hurt him for being gay, never... but if things get divided into two camps, I would not end up supporting his side of the fence...

I think that it is wrong that people get picked on for being gay... I think it is sad that two people of the same sex can be in a loving reltionship for years and if anything happens their partner cannot make medical or financial decisions. I think it is wrong if anyone is a friend and after learning they are gay just walk away and become hateful.

I also think, however, that I should not be called a gay hater just because I am not a supporter. I think that NOT being in favor of something, doesnt automatically make one ANTI or hateful. I would prefer not to be called to take a side... and I know a lot of others who feel the same... because invaribly.. when that happens, and I do not come out on the PRO gay side, gay people think we are gay haters.

 

[notfred]

Originally posted by: KarenMarie

Personally, I think that homosexuality is not right.

Why is it "not right"?

 

[TremblingFool]

Originally posted by: TravisT
I also choose who I hang out with. Is this such a problem? I don't want to associate with drug dealers, murderers, thieves, and on that same note, homosexuals. Sorry if this offends you, it doesn't mean I hate you, I just don't happen to agree with the lifestyle.

I don't understand this line of thinking. There are valid reasons you don't want to associate with drug dealers, murderers, and thieves. What are the reasons you don't want to associate with gay people? Have you ever really asked yourself why?

Try replacing the word homosexuals with black people, chinese, arabs, caucasians, etc., etc., and read your post again. It sounds absurd, doesn't it?

 

[GeekDrew]

Originally posted by: KarenMarie

Ok, through this entire thread, I have not oncegave my opion on a person level, but since you have offered your honest feelings, I will do so in the hopes that we can understand one another...

This thread started by saying that someone was a gay hater, just because they did not agree with and embrace the gay person's lifestyle... I think that was a bit OTT, as there are many that feel as I do...

I am a bit older than most here, and quite conservative. I try to be open minded, and understand where others are coming from...

Personally, I think that homosexuality is not right. I stop at saying it is wrong, as it is not for me to judge. I have no business judging anyone... but to me, it is not right... Having said that, I would never harm anyone for being gay, nor would I stand idly by and watch it happen. One of VeggieFrog's best friends in high school is a gay young man... he has been over loads of times, eaten at my table, and even spent the night on more than one occasion. He is always welcome here... we have had in depth discussions about where we each stand, and are very comfortable with ourselves and each other's stance....

There are times that he will make a remark about another guy, and it will make me cringe. Sorry, but it just doesnt seem right... but I just let it go... if he were to want to bring a boyfriend over, I would not be comfortable with that... if we were out, and he stated making out with another man, I would walk away... would I drop him, no... would I stand by and pretents it is ok with me... no.

Sam understands that I have no bad thoughts or feeling about him and what he does... he also understands that I personally think it is not right... will i ever hurt him for being gay, never... but if things get divided into two camps, I would not end up supporting his side of the fence...

I think that it is wrong that people get picked on for being gay... I think it is sad that two people of the same sex can be in a loving reltionship for years and if anything happens their partner cannot make medical or financial decisions. I think it is wrong if anyone is a friend and after learning they are gay just walk away and become hateful.

I also think, however, that I should not be called a gay hater just because I am not a supporter. I think that NOT being in favor of something, doesnt automatically make one ANTI or hateful. I would prefer not to be called to take a side... and I know a lot of others who feel the same... because invaribly.. when that happens, and I do not come out on the PRO gay side, gay people think we are gay haters.

That actually sounds a lot like what my adopted parents would say - and I get along with them fairly well - but they're the exception, rather than the rule. When I lived in their house, I occasionally had friends over... a couple of them were gay, but they never knew that for sure - they intentionally didn't ask. On gay/antigay issues, my adopted parents would avoid the issue while I was around... because they knew that the only result would be me becoming furious. I know that they were very vocal about being antigay in the background, and they knew that I'm very vocal about pro gay rights.

Some gays think that you are either for or against gay rights... and I think they are largely correct. From my perspective, if you aren't part of the solution, you're part of the problem. When voting on gay rights, there is a 'For' and 'Against' - not really anything in the middle. While I would more than likely get along with you just fine socially, I would fight you to the death on gay rights. I understand that you aren't a "gay hater" in that you do not hate gays individually, because you know them as a person... but you *are* a "gay hater" in that you oppose gay rights... which many of us feel condemns the entire community, one person at a time, as though you hate us all.

Originally posted by: KarenMarie

I think that it is wrong that people get picked on for being gay... I think it is sad that two people of the same sex can be in a loving reltionship for years and if anything happens their partner cannot make medical or financial decisions. I think it is wrong if anyone is a friend and after learning they are gay just walk away and become hateful.

And then this quote mixes things up even more. How can you say that you believe that... and not be a gay supporter? What is it that makes you not "pro-gay", since you believe the above? If you truly believe the above things are wrong, and sad, why wouldn't you support, for example, allowing civil unions, so that gays can become "married" (don't get me started on terminology), and thus would be able to make medical and financial decisions?

 

[Nocturnal]

Honestly that is very sad and that is their loss that they decided not to associate with you. Was this a personal thing or was this a professional thing? If it's the latter perhaps you can persue this issue in court? I myself had a problem with homosexuals once before where I was indeed homophobic. I had a life changing experience that opened my eyes to homosexuals and that experience made me realize how normal they are, they are the same as a straight person except for the fact they like the same sex, nothing different or abnormal about that. It is sad to see how many homophobic people are out there today. I have a great friend who often times makes fun of homosexuals and talks very homophobic. I feel sorry for him actually. Anyways, I hope you feel better and just realize that these guys are classless and are idiots.

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: TremblingFool

Originally posted by: TravisT
I also choose who I hang out with. Is this such a problem? I don't want to associate with drug dealers, murderers, thieves, and on that same note, homosexuals. Sorry if this offends you, it doesn't mean I hate you, I just don't happen to agree with the lifestyle.

I don't understand this line of thinking. There are valid reasons you don't want to associate with drug dealers, murderers, and thieves. What are the reasons you don't want to associate with gay people? Have you ever really asked yourself why?

Try replacing the word homosexuals with black people, chinese, arabs, caucasians, etc., etc., and read your post again. It sounds absurd, doesn't it?

You are making the assumption that homosexuality is the equivalent of a race, some of us don't agree with that.

Without that to rely on, neither side has much of an argument.

It's simply a difference of opinion.

Viper GTS

 

[Zanix]

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: KarenMarie

Personally, I think that homosexuality is not right.

Why is it "not right"?

yeah.



and on a side note, I was talking with this girl today. She said, "Awww... that's gay." All through high school even into college I've said the same thing. Something is stupid or bad or otherwise unwanted: "That's gay."

But if people said, "Awww... that's black." Hopefully somebody would call them out on it. "Awwww... that's Irish." or "Awwww... that catholic." I don't know. Sounds silly like that though. Man, I heard my ma the other day, "... and I didn't want to get jewed on the price.."

I hate overzealous PC bastards as much as anyone else, but damn... our language is oppressive in nature.

Edit: the examples.

 

[ed21x]

Originally posted by: Leaf

Two people refuse to associate with me because I'm gay. I'm not particularly devastated, but it's a slight disappointment there are still a few people who choose their friends based on criteria such as these.

And this is supposed to be a bad thing? Just because they don't want to give cheap relationships based on sexual desires their stamp of approval. Cos by pretending to be ok with it means you condone it.


for you.

am i the only one that understands this post? I think Leaf was referring to the "cheap relationship based on sexual desires" to refer to the friendship between these two people and the OP, not about the merits of Gay relationships.

to state it another way:
Some people don't want to give friendship because they disapporve of a person's sexual orientation. It's better that this is established rather than they pretend to be ok with it.

 

[Nocturnal]

Originally posted by: TravisT
I also choose who I hang out with. Is this such a problem? I don't want to associate with drug dealers, murderers, thieves, and on that same note, homosexuals. Sorry if this offends you, it doesn't mean I hate you, I just don't happen to agree with the lifestyle.

Have you ever hung out with a homosexual before? I'm sure you have, you just didn't know it. I understand and respect your opinion. Is there a specific reason why you dislike hanging out with homosexuals? I'll be honest when I say this, if you could just spare a day or something and just hang out with one, your eyes would open up and see that they're normal people just like you and I. There are no differences other than what they prefer man/woman.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: AMDJunkie
This is what you do. Using your homosexual powers of opposite-sex attraction, surround yourself with the hottest girls you can find who love to hang out with you because they're not threatened by you, and stroll by the straight-hataz. The Bloodhound Gang have documented this, as well as myself, noticing my friend pull in all the hot blonde chicks when he has absolutely no interest in that. It won't make you liked, but it is a sweet, sweet revenge.

its so so cruel. this one friend could even touch their boobies just to taunt people

 

[JDub02]

Originally posted by: Zanix

Originally posted by: JDub02

Originally posted by: Zanix

Originally posted by: JDub02
for all the homos

I'd like to know why anyone who doesn't agree with the homosexual agenda/lifestyle is automatically a bigot and a "homophobe"?

I don't approve of being gay, but that doesn't mean I hate anyone for it.

Think about the heterosexual agenda/lifestyle. What is it? Why is it that heterosexuals have a life, but homosexuals have a "lifestyle"?

Most people, I think, who disapprove of being gay do so for heterosexist or religious fundamental reasons, both of which I think are born out of fear. Hence the phobia of homophobe.

This is a long long disscussion.


Edit: i'll add more. The assumption seems to be that homosexuality is this new born deivance from "nature"/norm. I don't think it is. Homosexuality has been around a long time. Just has been a much bigger "nono" than now.

The fear is of change, or something that is different or not well understood IMO. Heterosexual gender roles have been traditionally very well defined. That's being challenged with changing social norms. Change is scary. I'll admit to that.

It's a lifestyle when you factor in the belief that homosexuality is a choice.

And there is an agenda in place to make the lifestyle acceptable .. to shove it down our throats, pardon the pun.

So hetersexuality is a choice also?

And if by agenda you mean not being discriminated against needlessly, then I guess everybody in the world has an agenda to make their "lifestyle" acceptable. I drink coffee and some people avoid me because my breath stinks, so I guess I'm also guilty of jamming my "coffee agenda" down everybody's throats.


Edit: and I see what you're saying, some people are dramatic about it. As is with every group though. Feminists, gays, christian fundamentalists, pot smokers, cigarette smokers, liberals, conservatives, etc... some people just shout instead of speak.

No, heterosexuality is natural. Think about it. man + woman = babies .. life/next generation is created.

Now I don't think that people sit down one day and thing .. "Hey, I think I'll be gay". But I do think it's rooted in psychology rather than in genetics.

By "agenda", I mean trying to convince others to accept it as normal and natural when their core beliefs tell them otherwise ... gay demonstrations, court cases for gay marraige, etc. Much like abortion. The country is pretty divided (right around 50/50) on abortion, but the feminists refuse to have a debate on it. They circumvented the legislative process using the courts. That's what the homosexuals are trying to do now with the various court cases.

I believe and will continue to believe that homosexuality is wrong. That doesn't mean I'm out to lynch gay people. I really don't care what two consenting adults do in their private life .. but don't try to change the way I feel about it.

 

[Attrox]

Originally posted by: KarenMarie

Ok, through this entire thread, I have not oncegave my opion on a person level, but since you have offered your honest feelings, I will do so in the hopes that we can understand one another...

........

I also think, however, that I should not be called a gay hater just because I am not a supporter. I think that NOT being in favor of something, doesnt automatically make one ANTI or hateful. I would prefer not to be called to take a side... and I know a lot of others who feel the same... because invaribly.. when that happens, and I do not come out on the PRO gay side, gay people think we are gay haters.

:thumbsup: Exactly like my opinion

 

[Attrox]

Originally posted by: GeekDrew

Originally posted by: KarenMarie
I think that it is wrong that people get picked on for being gay... I think it is sad that two people of the same sex can be in a loving reltionship for years and if anything happens their partner cannot make medical or financial decisions. I think it is wrong if anyone is a friend and after learning they are gay just walk away and become hateful.

And then this quote mixes things up even more. How can you say that you believe that... and not be a gay supporter? What is it that makes you not "pro-gay", since you believe the above? If you truly believe the above things are wrong, and sad, why wouldn't you support, for example, allowing civil unions, so that gays can become "married" (don't get me started on terminology), and thus would be able to make medical and financial decisions?

Because there is no human being deserve that kind of hateful treatment. But that doesn't mean she agree/ support gay.
It is actually sad to see some Christians become hateful or Churches banned people to attend because of them being gay. Jesus taught christians to love one another even their enemy and what they are doing are the opposite of this. I'm a Christian and I have a few gay friends that I enjoyed to hang out/talk with (although I will try to avoid 1 guy who keep insisting to convert me ), now this doesn't mean I agree with them 100%.

 

[Aleksandar]

Originally posted by: amdforever2
It's been common knowledge I'm gay to my friends and everyone I encounter since July of 2003.

The dramatic coming out, the lost friends, the conflict didn't happen. Surpising? Maybe.

I had maybe 5 people even mention some uncomfortableness, but when they saw I wasn't going to tie them up and paint their nails and cover them with rainbows they were ok. I'm still good friends with everyone.

So for a long time not one single negative side effect.

Well, today I found them.

Two people refuse to associate with me because I'm gay. I'm not particularly devastated, but it's a slight disappointment there are still a few people who choose their friends based on criteria such as these.


I'm in Kansas City, Missouri. It's a pretty conservative area I suppose. I guess I figured I'd run across people like these sooner or later.

*shrug*

I dont whanna be a di ck man but i am one of the "haters"

 

[Zanix]

Originally posted by: JDub02

Originally posted by: Zanix

Originally posted by: JDub02

Originally posted by: Zanix

Originally posted by: JDub02
for all the homos

I'd like to know why anyone who doesn't agree with the homosexual agenda/lifestyle is automatically a bigot and a "homophobe"?

I don't approve of being gay, but that doesn't mean I hate anyone for it.

Think about the heterosexual agenda/lifestyle. What is it? Why is it that heterosexuals have a life, but homosexuals have a "lifestyle"?

Most people, I think, who disapprove of being gay do so for heterosexist or religious fundamental reasons, both of which I think are born out of fear. Hence the phobia of homophobe.

This is a long long disscussion.


Edit: i'll add more. The assumption seems to be that homosexuality is this new born deivance from "nature"/norm. I don't think it is. Homosexuality has been around a long time. Just has been a much bigger "nono" than now.

The fear is of change, or something that is different or not well understood IMO. Heterosexual gender roles have been traditionally very well defined. That's being challenged with changing social norms. Change is scary. I'll admit to that.

It's a lifestyle when you factor in the belief that homosexuality is a choice.

And there is an agenda in place to make the lifestyle acceptable .. to shove it down our throats, pardon the pun.

So hetersexuality is a choice also?

And if by agenda you mean not being discriminated against needlessly, then I guess everybody in the world has an agenda to make their "lifestyle" acceptable. I drink coffee and some people avoid me because my breath stinks, so I guess I'm also guilty of jamming my "coffee agenda" down everybody's throats.


Edit: and I see what you're saying, some people are dramatic about it. As is with every group though. Feminists, gays, christian fundamentalists, pot smokers, cigarette smokers, liberals, conservatives, etc... some people just shout instead of speak.

No, heterosexuality is natural. Think about it. man + woman = babies .. life/next generation is created.

Now I don't think that people sit down one day and thing .. "Hey, I think I'll be gay". But I do think it's rooted in psychology rather than in genetics.

By "agenda", I mean trying to convince others to accept it as normal and natural when their tell them otherwise ... gay demonstrations, court cases for gay marraige, etc. Much like abortion. The country is pretty divided (right around 50/50) on abortion, but the feminists refuse to have a debate on it. They circumvented the legislative process using the courts. That's what the homosexuals are trying to do now with the various court cases.

I believe and will continue to believe that homosexuality is wrong. That doesn't mean I'm out to lynch gay people. I really don't care what two consenting adults do in their private life .. but don't try to change the way I feel about it.

Fair enough. but in the spirit of OT debate...

Claiming something as natural is problimatic though. Man + woman = babies suggests that our only function is reproduction. While obviously that's gotta happen for the species to continue, I don't think that voids any societal or biological reason for homosexuality. It happens in "nature" with different animals and so on, so maybe it has a function. The desire to "hump" or ah, gettin horney, I don't think specfies male on female. The dog here at the house "mates" with this big stuffed bear all the time. His line wil obviously die out. Poor bastard.

In ancient greece, IIRC, women wern't really human. They got banged so the race didn't come to a grinding halt. The real "love making" was done between men. Gross right? But love was a (I forget how socrates put it) truth beyond women. Of a different realm. All I mean with this part, is that people have viewed homosexuality very differently over the centuries.

Just for arguments sake, how would your view change if scientists mapped sexual preference to a gene?

What do you mean by "core beliefs" btw?

"They circumvented the legislative process using the courts. That's what the homosexuals are trying to do now with the various court cases." Do you mean that the gays are cheating the system?

 

[KarenMarie]

Originally posted by: GeekDrew

Originally posted by: KarenMarie

Ok, through this entire thread, I have not oncegave my opion on a person level, but since you have offered your honest feelings, I will do so in the hopes that we can understand one another...

This thread started by saying that someone was a gay hater, just because they did not agree with and embrace the gay person's lifestyle... I think that was a bit OTT, as there are many that feel as I do...

I am a bit older than most here, and quite conservative. I try to be open minded, and understand where others are coming from...

Personally, I think that homosexuality is not right. I stop at saying it is wrong, as it is not for me to judge. I have no business judging anyone... but to me, it is not right... Having said that, I would never harm anyone for being gay, nor would I stand idly by and watch it happen. One of VeggieFrog's best friends in high school is a gay young man... he has been over loads of times, eaten at my table, and even spent the night on more than one occasion. He is always welcome here... we have had in depth discussions about where we each stand, and are very comfortable with ourselves and each other's stance....

There are times that he will make a remark about another guy, and it will make me cringe. Sorry, but it just doesnt seem right... but I just let it go... if he were to want to bring a boyfriend over, I would not be comfortable with that... if we were out, and he stated making out with another man, I would walk away... would I drop him, no... would I stand by and pretents it is ok with me... no.

Sam understands that I have no bad thoughts or feeling about him and what he does... he also understands that I personally think it is not right... will i ever hurt him for being gay, never... but if things get divided into two camps, I would not end up supporting his side of the fence...

I think that it is wrong that people get picked on for being gay... I think it is sad that two people of the same sex can be in a loving reltionship for years and if anything happens their partner cannot make medical or financial decisions. I think it is wrong if anyone is a friend and after learning they are gay just walk away and become hateful.

I also think, however, that I should not be called a gay hater just because I am not a supporter. I think that NOT being in favor of something, doesnt automatically make one ANTI or hateful. I would prefer not to be called to take a side... and I know a lot of others who feel the same... because invaribly.. when that happens, and I do not come out on the PRO gay side, gay people think we are gay haters.

That actually sounds a lot like what my adopted parents would say - and I get along with them fairly well - but they're the exception, rather than the rule. When I lived in their house, I occasionally had friends over... a couple of them were gay, but they never knew that for sure - they intentionally didn't ask. On gay/antigay issues, my adopted parents would avoid the issue while I was around... because they knew that the only result would be me becoming furious. I know that they were very vocal about being antigay in the background, and they knew that I'm very vocal about pro gay rights.

Some gays think that you are either for or against gay rights... and I think they are largely correct. From my perspective, if you aren't part of the solution, you're part of the problem. When voting on gay rights, there is a 'For' and 'Against' - not really anything in the middle. While I would more than likely get along with you just fine socially, I would fight you to the death on gay rights. I understand that you aren't a "gay hater" in that you do not hate gays individually, because you know them as a person... but you *are* a "gay hater" in that you oppose gay rights... which many of us feel condemns the entire community, one person at a time, as though you hate us all.

Originally posted by: KarenMarie

I think that it is wrong that people get picked on for being gay... I think it is sad that two people of the same sex can be in a loving reltionship for years and if anything happens their partner cannot make medical or financial decisions. I think it is wrong if anyone is a friend and after learning they are gay just walk away and become hateful.

And then this quote mixes things up even more. How can you say that you believe that... and not be a gay supporter? What is it that makes you not "pro-gay", since you believe the above? If you truly believe the above things are wrong, and sad, why wouldn't you support, for example, allowing civil unions, so that gays can become "married" (don't get me started on terminology), and thus would be able to make medical and financial decisions?

I am sure that my stance frustrates you. Hellfire, a lot of times it seems contradictory to myself.

I am not pro gay. I do not believe in gay marriage in church. I do not think that.... well, I think that people should be free to choose not to associate to people who are gay, and not be labeled a hater. I do not think it is ok for them to ridicule or cause harm to a gay person just for being gay.

OTOH... I think the things I mentioned above are wrong. I think that hating someone only because they are gay is horrible. But that should be dealt with through teaching, not legislation. I grew up in a very conservative household in a very conserative time. Yet, I am inconsistent in being adamant on anything. I think homosexuality is not right, as I stated above. I do not hate anyone who is gay... to me, I just dont think it is right. I do not have the right to force anyone else to believe that way, just as I feel that no one else has the right to label me a hater or force me to think it is wonderful.

To add to the inconsistency... I also beleive this...

I think that if two people love each other, care about each other and take care of each other.. they should be left alone to do so. I think that it must be horrible to watch a loved one in the hospital and not be able to make decisions. I think it sucks that if two ppl are in a long term relationship, and one dies, the other is not recognized as next of kin. I think it sucks... hmm.... I had a friend once who was really anti gay.. he was going on and on about the abominaton of gay adoption. I told him point blank... That I believe that the ideal situation for any child is in a household with one mommy and one daddy... HOWEVER... there are so many fvcked up parents that don't treat their kids right, and if two people from the same sex is gonna take a kid and love them and treat the kid right, and give him a stable home and make him feel good about himself, then this friend had no friggin reason to be so closed minded.

I will admit to being inconsistent in my beliefs... and i will say this...

I guess the fact that my daughter feels comfortable bringing a gay friend to my dinner table should show a prime example to difference thru teaching. My grandparents were what is today considered racist bigots... but it was the norm of the day... my parents only slightly better, I was taught it was wrong... I cannot go that far, and yet... the next generation (my daughter) thinks it is fine.

I think gay people will, eventually, have the same rights as heteros. Every generation gets closer and closer to that happening... I for one, will not vote for or against... that is because... although I fully believe in my right to feel how I do about gay marriage, I do not think it is ok for me personally to sign on the dotted line to prevent anyone from anything like this... you say that you would fight me to the death to get gay rights... i will not fight against you ... but I would not fight for you.

I choose not to vote either way and fully believe that thru teaching ppl will be raised differently that I was.

Lastly, I will again say that I have no intention whatsoever to slam you or insult you.

 

[Ryan]

Originally posted by: Aleksandar

Originally posted by: amdforever2
It's been common knowledge I'm gay to my friends and everyone I encounter since July of 2003.

The dramatic coming out, the lost friends, the conflict didn't happen. Surpising? Maybe.

I had maybe 5 people even mention some uncomfortableness, but when they saw I wasn't going to tie them up and paint their nails and cover them with rainbows they were ok. I'm still good friends with everyone.

So for a long time not one single negative side effect.

Well, today I found them.

Two people refuse to associate with me because I'm gay. I'm not particularly devastated, but it's a slight disappointment there are still a few people who choose their friends based on criteria such as these.


I'm in Kansas City, Missouri. It's a pretty conservative area I suppose. I guess I figured I'd run across people like these sooner or later.

*shrug*

I dont whanna be a di ck man but i am one of the "haters"

So you're telling me that if you met some guy, and you guys got along totally great and become good friends, you woudl totally disassociate yourself from them if you found out they were gay (even when they've never tried to put any moves one you)?