Finally, socket 479 Pentium-Ms on socket 478s!

[Kazuo]

Originally posted by: Mingon
Looking at the pictures on xbit-labs it seem like the holes surrounding the cpu (if the mobo has them) can be used. This means a zalman should work with some screw length adjustment. Again the pictures show that the fitting difficulties will be due to height, but, as the p4 has the IHS the difference should only be about 2-3mm and the sprung loaded screws used by zalman should be able to cope.

Yeah, I'm sure there's some way to use other heatsink/fans. I'd not be surprised if the heatsink mod kit that comes with the Powerleap 423->478 adapter would work with it.
Keep in mind though that the P-M doesn't have the heatspreader on top so testing would be some sticky business. I'm sure some enterprising individuals could gain some info from the HSF that ASUS includes though, and apply it to others.

 

[rogue1979]

It looks like it's gonna be a competive gaming solution link

If you look at the gaming benchmarks, the 2.0GHz Pentium M is roughly equal to a 3.4GHz P4 or an A64 3000+ at stock speeds.

I would guess that a Celeron M 1.5GHz on a 533MHz fsb @ 2.0GHz would still outperform the Pentium M @ 2.0GHz (400MHz fsb) because the fsb and memory bandwidth should more than make up for the loss of L2 cache.

This looks like an excellent upgrade for existing P4 users who want a faster speed P4, but don't want the extra heat and power requirements.

I am really hoping that the adapter only defaults the fsb speed to 533, but the fsb options on the motherboard bios will still work. Then there is a possibility to take the 1.3Ghz to a 800MHz fsb for 2.6GHz. If you look at the gaming benchmarks for a Pentium M @ 2.5GHz, you have to realize that this is on a 125MHz fsb. To get 2.6GHz at 200MHz fsb speeds would certainly be faster even without the extra L2 cache.

This should make it quite competitive with a stock FX-55 speeds in gaming benchmarks. For a $100 cpu that runs cool with a quiet heatsink and has no problem with a wimpy power supply, simply amazing.

If 2.6GHz proves unrealistic, then the 1.5 @ 166MHz for 2.5GHz, or even the 1.3 @ 166MHz for 2.2GHz would still be fast when you set your memory divider to boost the DDR to 400MHz.

Factor in the price of a cheap socket 478 motherboard, a $100 cpu and no worries about power or heat and this looks like an excellent budget gamers setup that is quite powerful.

 

[Mingon]

Currently I have 2 centrino laptops with 1.5/1mb and 1.6/2mb when this becomes available I think the 1.5 will be upgraded I also have a 1.4 celeron-m can play with also

 

[Kazuo]

Originally posted by: rogue1979
I would guess that a Celeron M 1.5GHz on a 533MHz fsb @ 2.0GHz would still outperform the Pentium M @ 2.0GHz (400MHz fsb) because the fsb and memory bandwidth should more than make up for the loss of L2 cache.
...
there is a possibility to take the 1.3Ghz to a 800MHz fsb for 2.6GHz. If you look at the gaming benchmarks for a Pentium M @ 2.5GHz, you have to realize that this is on a 125MHz fsb...

I'd agree that I think it will be a capable performer when overclocked, but I think your estimates of how much they can be overclocked is still a bit skewed. Remember that Celeron-Ms were probably more poorly manufactured than a Pentium-M, and Intel still bins their processors, so you could end up with a real lemon (one that's stuck pretty much running stock). Also, it's been said many times that Banias and Dothan have been tweaked for power usage by not wasting time in parts of the pipeline. Therefore, the pipeline is only as long as it needs to be to reach target clock speeds (which are below 2.5GHz). If you hit 2.5GHz stable, good for you- you lucked out But some Pentium-Ms don't really overclock at all. I read one article where someone was only able to go from a 100->103 or something before it became unstable. We'll see what happens.

BTW: getting the FSB to double is pretty unreasonable on any platform. I'd be amazed if much above 133 would be stable for any Banias/Dothan.

 

[rogue1979]

I have two P4-M 1.6GHz that are made for a 100MHz fsb, both doing 200MHz fsb happily.

You might be right about 2.5GHz being optimistic, but maybe not. Remember as the fab process matures I think many of the cpu's will hit a minimum of the fastest processor in that class at stock voltage. So with a few extra volts I would venture to say they will all hit 2.2GHz fairly often.

The benchmarks on the Pentium M at 2.0GHz were really decent on a 100MHz fsb. Grab a 1.3 Celeron M which I am sure will drop below $100, hit the 166MHz fsb for 2.2GHz and the memory divider for DDR 400MHz. Instant Pentium M 2.0GHz killer. No not as fast as a 3000+ Winchester with a good overclock, but still faster than many stock A64's or higher speed P4's and much cheaper.

Remember, heat and power will not be an issue, SFF computers will have an awesome platform.

 

[Kazuo]

That's all well and good, but you're talking apples and oranges. P4s are Netburst- an architecture made to scale well. Dothan and Banias are the opposite: they are made to have high IPC, and NOT scale well- this is intentional. Intel wants to keep power low, and to do so, they are VERY strict about pipeline length, what is done in each step, and Intel has said many times that they have a certain clock speed in mind and design the processors to hit that and nothing more. So Dothan and Banias have intentional clock speed walls. That doesn't mean that they won't overclock above a certain clock speed for sure, but most will not overclock nearly as well as you're thinking. All of your comments regarding other processor types are irrelevant because they are made for different purposes, sadly.
That said, I'm still excited to see what comes out of this I just don't think it's fair to get others' hopes up like that.

 

[rogue1979]

I guess the wait and see attitude is the safest

But I googled it on Dothan overclocking and came up with three results.

All three bested 2.4GHz ond one went over 2.5GHz. I think two of them were 2.0GHz chips, but one of them for sure was a 1.5!

I can't see any reason why we should expect poor overclocking when the yields will just improve?

Update: Holy Crap! I just checked ebay and found a Celeron M 1.3GHz for $66 buy it now.

This looks like the next XP 1700+, mobile Barton and mobile Celeron P4 overclocking goodness, only faster and just as cheap!

 

[TomKazansky]

doesn't donathans have crap fpu scores compare to other mobiles/desktop chips?

 

[Kazuo]

I'd say it's probably one of its weaker points, but to get comparable performance to an A64 in most apps, it would have to have a fairly decent FPU setup. There are some apps where the P-M gets beat down by the P4 and A64, but for the power usage, it's quite nice. It's probably no worse on floating-point than the P3.
rogue1979: They sell new for not too much more than that (about $95-$100 on Froogle). That's why I've been stressing that the P-M is just not worthwhile this whole thread

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: rogue1979
It looks like it's gonna be a competive gaming solution link
This should make it quite competitive with a stock FX-55 speeds in gaming benchmarks. For a $100 cpu that runs cool with a quiet heatsink and has no problem with a wimpy power supply, simply amazing.

Factor in the price of a cheap socket 478 motherboard, a $100 cpu and no worries about power or heat and this looks like an excellent budget gamers setup that is quite powerful.

^ What he said. This could be the next "Celeron 300A" - except even more so!

Wait, this adaptor will require BIOS support - should we figure in an additional cost for a bi-compatible (S478/479 w/adaptor) mobo, that would potentially offset the reduced-cost of building a P4-M rig and OC'ing it? I mean, is the situation all that much better? Instead of a few high-priced 855-based boards, now we have a few more boards, but potentially only a select few (capable of having BIOS support for the P4-M), and thus dealers raising prices on them just because, anyways.

 

[Kazuo]

If you're worried about the boards becoming ridiculously expensive, you could buy one now--ASUS has already named two boards as being compatible with the adapter. Both of them are available at Newegg for less than $100 each. They wouldn't dare charge over $50 for the adapter, so you're still looking at a $100ish savings over similar offerings from other manufacturers.
There's really nothing that says it needs BIOS support to use the CPU. It might show up as something wacky, but assuming the chipset itself supports it, and the motherboard has proper voltage controls, etc., it might work. ASUS doesn't dare say that it'll work with non-ASUS boards because a lot of other boards they have no control over the quality of. But I'd guess it'd work some way or another on someone else's stuff (and if it doesn't now, someone will come out with it sooner or later).
I think this is big news and I hope ASUS doesn't keep us hanging on for too long for info!