Firearms enthusiasts: are you in the light grain, fast bullet camp, or on the heavy grain, slow bullet side?

[Moonbeam]

I don't know about you but this thread makes me really excited.

 

[glenn1]

I don't know about you but this thread makes me really excited.

To each their own i guess... marksmanship was part of my job performance (and survival if things came to that) when i was in the military, so it was a topic of fairly high importance in my life. Nowadays that i'm no longer serving, i look at target shooting as more of an occassional but enjoyable recreational activity (i've tried archery as well) with additional tangential benefits in rare circumstances (the need for a mechanism of self-defense). I wouldn't say it gets me "excited" (aroused?) like you, but hey, it's a free country, right?

 

[MrChicken]

" agree with the above EXCEPT for the 00-buckshot! Each shot has the energy of a .357 Magnum. It will penetrate walls and kill someone.... like a family member. I use 0000-buckshot. Indoors it will still stop a burgular without the penetration problem"

If you look at my other post, you'll see that I prefer something that penetrates. Knowing what is behind your target is the thing. I dont want the bad guy to use every piece of furniture in my house as a shield, I know he wont be worried about shooting through the walls, and it is up to me to stop him before he empties his clip will-nilly. My house and my neighbors are brick homes, which will "likely" stop a 45 HP or 00-buck. Now if I lived in trailer where all of the rooms are in line, and small, I'd use a frangible, or a short sword.

 

[Tominator]

00 will penetrate any interior surface and several layers of drywall. So your bedrooms are armoured?

I want to know where my shots land and not guess. Murphy's Law.......

Most shootouts are around 3 seconds in length with less than 5 shots fired by both parties.....That is no time to pick what you are shooting through.

 

[MrChicken]

Ok....

I'll be coming from my bedroom, my wife will stay there. As long as I know where she is I dont have to worry about shooting her. Since I will be coming from that direction, I do have to worry about the bad guy(s) who will be shooting at me and indirectly at her.

If a bad guy dives behind a piece of furniture, I want to be able to blast him before he sprays any more bullets around the house, in my general direction or my wifes.

I dont have any worry that I will shoot my wife by accident, because I will know where she is. I have plenty of worry that the bad guy will, either by accident or if he gets me first as I wait for the clear shot at him. It is because I know every inch of my house, that I would do this. I wouldnt think of blasting through walls in a different place.

 

[Tominator]

Your wife never, that is not ever, strays from the bedroom while you are in it? Murphy's Law again....

You have no kids? Never a house guest?

Rarely if ever is there time to 'spray' bullets. That's a movie term....

 

[Moonbeam]

I would humbly suggest that a lot of these bad guys can be killed right on a psychiatrist's couch.

glenn1, I know I'm bad. I really do feel that so many of these gun threads and the facination with weapons, the intense interest in them, comes from internalized and outwardly directed fear of stuff that happened to long ago. I'm not an absolutist on this though, nor am I immune to the lure. I actually don't know the count of how many guns I have and I love archery.

 

[glenn1]

glenn1, I know I'm bad. I really do feel that so many of these gun threads and the facination with weapons, the intense interest in them, comes from internalized and outwardly directed fear of stuff that happened to long ago. I'm not an absolutist on this though, nor am I immune to the lure. I actually don't know the count of how many guns I have and I love archery.

No argument on your first point. Some folks would have the same level of fascination with lawn darts if they were the tool of choice of soldiers and policemen, and want the biggest, baddest one they could lay their hands on.... instead of talking about .50BMG rounds and weapons, they'd be talking up their "Desert Eagle Black Talon" lawn dart. But for most, it's a pretty harmless fascination, just as for most folks who support gun control, the same fascination exists, only going the opposite way.

Glad to hear that you appreciate both sports though, i think a marksmanship vs. archery thread as a contest of skill (and which one is the more challenging) would be a pretty interesting topic of discussion

 

[MrChicken]

"Your wife never, that is not ever, strays from the bedroom while you are in it? Murphy's Law again...."

If I dont know where she is, I wont shoot unless I have a perfect shot where I can see what is behind the bad guy. But in reality, if somebody gets in while we are up watching tv or whatever, they will likely be able stop either of us from getting to our guns.

"You have no kids? Never a house guest?"
Most of the year he is at college, his room is upstairs, and I wont be shooting upward at an angle to get to the rooms upstairs. Same rule applies as above.

"Rarely if ever is there time to 'spray' bullets. That's a movie term.... "

That's bullsh!t, give most anybody a gun and shoot at them and they will empty it as fast as they can pull the trigger. Only the people paralyzed by fear and the most truly trained dont spray bullets. By spraying I mean aimed shots only in the sense of pointing the direction of the target, or any shot that isnt sighted. Even most of the "trained" police in shootouts fire many shots if they dont empty their gun. I cant remember the guys name that police killed in NY, but the 3 cops emptied their autos at close range on a guy holding his own wallet.

 

[MrChicken]

"Glad to hear that you appreciate both sports though, i think a marksmanship vs. archery thread as a contest of skill (and which one is the more challenging) would be a pretty interesting topic of discussion "

Bah....

Archery is so much more difficult to master, it wouldnt be worth discussing.

 

[Nefrodite]

hollow point 22? or do they not exist?

i thought shockwaves tore organs anyways.. ah welll

 

[BeHeMOTH]

for home SLOW and HEAVY, for range fast.

 

[Danman]

Originally posted by: ffmcobalt
There's no such thing as a slow bullet.

I'd like to see you outrun my .50cal auto.

nik

I CAN!

 

[Tominator]

Even most of the "trained" police in shootouts fire many shots if they dont empty their gun.

And they miss more than the average homeowner involved in a shootout as well. What does that prove?

Again, the average nimber of shots is less than three and everything happens in less time than you could shoot emty a 6 shot .45 let alone your over-rated high capacity 9mm whimp gun.

Brain shot? Make me laugh! In any realistic situation if youhit the brain you are just plain lucky.

Hydrostatic shock in a handgun is mostly myth....

The .40 is a caliber without a need.....It is supposed to give the knockdown power of a .45 in a gun the size of a 9MM.....it's a joke instead and highly over rated. .357 SIG? I want something I can afford to shoot a lot! Both the caliber and the SIG gun are way too expensive. Both calibers were nothing but marketing gimmics....

...That ought to stir it up a bit!

 

[boi]

haahha, there was this one guy a few months ago that got kicked out of this range I went to for bringing his .50BMG and punching holes through 1" steel at 1000 yards. The owner didn't make him pay for the targets.

 

[Pliablemoose]

You have to admit the 357 Sig has generated a lot of interest, I picked up a conversion bbl for my Glock .40 & really enjoy shooting it. For the amount of shooting that I do, the per round price of the 357 sig is not a problem.

 

[glenn1]

The .40 is a caliber without a need.....It is supposed to give the knockdown power of a .45 in a gun the size of a 9MM.....it's a joke instead and highly over rated.

I'm not sure the statistics bear out that particular statement. Every table i've ever seen shows the .40 S&W (particularly in the lighter 135gr. CorBon style +P loadings) to be one of the best single-shot stoppers on the chart, generally within a percentage or two of the classic .357 Magnum +P loading out of a 5" barrel revolver, or .45 ACP in a 4" or higher barrel pistol. The cartridge sure as hell ain't no joke, that's for certain.

357 SIG? I want something I can afford to shoot a lot! Both the caliber and the SIG gun are way too expensive.

You do realize that the .357 SIG is simply a .40 S&W necked down to .355 caliber? Sig Sauer even makes a drop-in barrel converter for it's P22X series pistols, the most popular of which in the U.S. would probably be the modern classic the P228 (and it's fully steel frame twin, the P229). The Delaware State Police and certain other forces use the P229 in .357 SIG chambering as their duty weapon.

And yes, Sig Sauers are relatively expensive pistols, but less so than an M1911 which has undergone even light gunsmithing. The sticker price on the Sig P229 is around 800 IIRC, it's not unusual to see M1911's go for well over a grand. Heck, some of the Les Bauer and other custom .45's sometimes run over 2k. I challenge you to find another pistol which is good straight out of the box without any work from a 'smith as the Sig for anything near its price. Take a $700 Sig out of the box and compare it to a $400 Ruger straight out of the box, and tell me which one is the better piece.

 

[MrChicken]

"Brain shot? Make me laugh! In any realistic situation if youhit the brain you are just plain lucky."

That's why I have a 12 shot 45, the perp is going to get alot of them the chest, as fast as I can put them there.

Have you ever shot a 22 auto pistol? With practice, it doesnt take long to hit just about anything you want at close range simply by pointing it like your finger. A head shot with one of those would not be very hard. I wouldnt use one be they are not reliable enough for my liking.

Hinckley, a crazy man, did some quick shooting with a 22. 6 shots an about 3 seconds. He hit 4 people in that time. I dont know if he was spraying or aiming. The hit on Reagan was a ricochet, so as far aimed shots go, that was really a miss. He had a revolver and he shot it empty in that 3 seconds.

 

[Tominator]

Take a $700 Sig out of the box and compare it to a $400 Ruger straight out of the box, and tell me which one is the better piece

That's a tall question! I've had a P228 and shot damn near everything they, SIG, have to offer. That 228 was a PIG! It was finicky about ammo and very inaccurate. I traded it off and swore to myself not to be blinded by hype again! My first Glock was of the same ilk...POS!

I've sold tens of Rugers to every SIG I've sold and rarely a complaint. In a 9MM nothing beats the Browning Highpower imho.

The .40 is still a calibre without a need. Both the 9MM and .45ACP have ten times the record as far as knock down power and it only came into being because of politics. The .357 SIG is another newbie without a cause. It is nowhere near the velocity of a REAL .357 Magnum but more of a hot .38 Special.

We won't even talk about muzzle flash where the .45 is king. Shoot even a hot 9 at night...one shot...you are blind! A .40 is OK unless you get a +P load, which is what it takes to make the .40 effective, or god forbid a .357 SIG....one shot in the dark and your night vision is ruined. After that everything else pales in the argument.

The World Record for speed is held by a stock S&W .357 revolver. Six shots in .7 seconds.....'Skeeter' Skelton, now deceased, holds the record.

Within 35 feet I do not miss with my Glock21 and have a 640 S&W in .38 Special +P as backup. My Colt Officers Model in .45ACP that is highly customized I save for those special circumstances....

 

[Tiger]

Unless your hunting Moose, Elk, Bear, or humans light and speedy is the way to go.
I used to hunt out in west river South Dakota and Wyoming. Sometimes 200yds was a close shot.

 

[308nato]

Wow, a real topic. What I prefer depends on the caliber of the weapon, the barrels twist, distance to target and the purpose for which I have locked and loaded. I just use whatever works best for the situation.

I prefer to shoot .308 at 300 to 500 meters so I use the 168gr BTHP match ammo often. It is my favorite round.

For everyday varmit control on the farm we use the .223 in several varieties of the Ar-15. I use a custom loaded 45gr Hornady V-Max which does to a coyote what a 10 story drop does to a water balloon.

Pistols bore me generally so I only have one. .45 auto always loaded with the "flying ashtray's". You can have your 20 round clip poodle shooters.

Let the M-1 do your talking.

God Bless John Cantius Garand

 

[Tominator]

9 out of 10 people can't hit the broad side of a barn at 300 meters......let alone yards!

 

[308nato]

Originally posted by: Tominator
9 out of 10 people can't hit the broad side of a barn at 300 meters......let alone yards!

I am the 10th. You'll fall before you know I'm there.



That's what happens when you get raised by a veteran of that forgotten little Korean War.....errr...I mean police action.

 

[glenn1]

I prefer to shoot .308 at 300 to 500 meters so I use the 168gr BTHP match ammo often. It is my favorite round.

Let the M-1 do your talking.

LOL... how could i have guessed that you'd prefer the .308 with a handle like yours?

Again, my cartridge choice in a rifle differs slightly, i'm a fan of the .270 Winchester myself, i let my Model 70 handle chatter duties for me.

 

[308nato]

Again, my cartridge choice in a rifle differs slightly, i'm a fan of the .270 Winchester myself, i let my Model 70 handle chatter duties for me.

Ahhhh. The venerable .270....flat shooting bastage with a trajectory like a laser beam. You gotta' like it.