Firefighters let a home burn down because $75 fee wasn't paid!

[BurnItDwn]

Agreeing with democracy EXCEPT when it should be overruled when you don't agree with the outcome is NOT agreeing with democracy.

The world is not black and white.
I believe MOST things should be decided democratically.
That does not mean that every possible thing should be decided by a vote.

Basic services such as Fire coverage, police coverage, and public education are essentially mandatory services. Therefore, the availabillity of these things should not be decided by a vote. They should be automatic.

Sort of like wearing a seat belt. Everybody should wear one all the time. Some people are stupid, thus they don't. Therefore, to try to control insurance costs, and minimize road deaths, they make seat belt laws.

Sometimes common sense needs to prevail.

 

[Train]

The world is not black and white.
I believe MOST things should be decided democratically.
That does not mean that every possible thing should be decided by a vote.

Basic services such as Fire coverage, police coverage, and public education are essentially mandatory services. Therefore, the availabillity of these things should not be decided by a vote. They should be automatic.

Sort of like wearing a seat belt. Everybody should wear one all the time. Some people are stupid, thus they don't. Therefore, to try to control insurance costs, and minimize road deaths, they make seat belt laws.

Sometimes common sense needs to prevail.

The problem with rights is that they are supposed to be what you can't be STOPPED from doing (like speaking freely), or what others CAN'T force on you (like an unwarranted search)

You cant make a "right" out of something that requires others to do something for you. It's simply unenforceable.

 

[Homerboy]

This is completely boneheaded bullshit.
The whole concept of using a "fee" to pay for fire service. What the fvck is this, a lo cart shit.

Services like fire, police, library, parks should always and only be budgeted through taxes. Not fees. They should cover everybody. And, if people don't pay their property tax, then the land should be reposessed and sold at auction.

Adding stupid fees for shit like this just doesn't make sense. If they don't have enough money for their budget, then they need to raise taxes directly, not create a new one. Or, perhaps they could simply streamline their expenses and cut out some fat and actually work within a reasonable budget! seems like every frickin city/state/county is bloated all to hell!

Ironic posting considering your name

 

[Fear No Evil]

Imagine this scenario that would likely play out if the 'they should just bill him' crowd won. Fire Department shows up, puts house out, sends him a bill for $10,000. His insurance company rebuilds the house and since he didn't pay the $75 he decides not to pay the $10,000 either. County/City puts a lien on his NEW house and eventually takes it from him for lack of payment.

Now, instead of having a new house, he is now without a house. And everyone would cheer because the fire department responded?

 

[Jaepheth]

...I tend to lean very libertarian, but I haven't met a libertarian of sound mind that doesn't think fire and police are necessary government services. They're what, economically, we'd refer to as highly specialized skills. Things that can't ever be profitable....

I'm curious as to what logic is used to exclude health/medicine services from that list...

 

[OverVolt]

As was already pointed out., They USED TO respond to every call and charge after the fact. But since that was abused by the douchebags who wouldnt pay up, the practice was stopped.

If you live in such a small town that it doesn't even have a fire department, don't expect the fire department to come save your house.

The other county was doing them a service, for a fee. Like everyone else is saying, it will be abused if they can just wait until you actually need the fire department to pay the $75.

If you don't pay taxes to the fire department and don't pay their fee, what do you expect? No where in the world do you get something for nothing. When you get cheaper in-state tuition its paid for by taxes. When they repair the roads you drive on, it's paid for by taxes, etc. If you don't pay taxes to that particular counties fire department AND don't pay their fee, which is a service they provide, then you are SOL.

 

[bigdog1218]

I'm didn't read the whole thread, but wasn't this costing tax payers money regardless if they watch the fire burn or put it out. How much more money is spent on putting it out, the pennies the water costs. They could have saved money by not responding, if they're going to respond, put the fire out.

 

[BoberFett]

I'm curious as to what logic is used to exclude health/medicine services from that list...

If a city wants to implement their own fully taxpayer funded health care system, as a libertarian I say more power to 'em.

What I don't agree with is a handful of plutocrats sitting 2000 miles away to decide for 300 million people what is in their best interests.

The further government gets from the people it is supposed to represent, the more corrupt and self serving it gets. You cannot govern from the top down. It will fail.

 

[xSauronx]

This has happened a few times in other parts of the country as well.
Fucking morons...The city has no obligation to provide fire protection services outside the city limits, BUT they WILL, IF you're willing to pay an annual fee.

Don't pay the fee...don't call for help when you fuck up and burn your place to the ground.

this. volunteer depts here in NC go around a time or two a year in their service areas looking for donations. donate and youre gold, dont, and they generally show up to make sure the fire doesnt spread, but they wont save your place and wont risk their ass for you.

i cant blame them, they work for little or nothing and need support to provide services that a city wont or cant.

 

[Ns1]

n/m

 

[Train]

If a city wants to implement their own fully taxpayer funded health care system, as a libertarian I say more power to 'em.

What I don't agree with is a handful of plutocrats sitting 2000 miles away to decide for 300 million people what is in their best interests.

The further government gets from the people it is supposed to represent, the more corrupt and self serving it gets. You cannot govern from the top down. It will fail.

Amen brotha. I would like to subscribe to your blog. Please post the RSS feed.

 

[alkemyst]

I'm didn't read the whole thread, but wasn't this costing tax payers money regardless if they watch the fire burn or put it out. How much more money is spent on putting it out, the pennies the water costs. They could have saved money by not responding, if they're going to respond, put the fire out.

you are a bit clueless if you think the average fire rollout is just "pennies for water".

 

[IcePickFreak]

Some of you have a weird sense of how things work.

1. It costs a lot more than $75 for the FD to respond to a call. That's why you pay that low amount ahead of time. 90+% of the people that pay it won't need the service, but if they do it's there.

2. If the FD does stuff like extinguish fires for people who don't pay for their services, they either have to charge the people that do pay more, or offer them a lesser service. What good is it going to do anyone, whether they live in the city and pay taxes for the service or outside the city and get it for free since apparently they shouldn't have to pay, if the FD is under-staffed and under-equipped because they're providing their services for people that don't pay them to maintain equipment and staff?

Yeah, it'd be great if we could magically just take care of everyones problems for free, bu that's not how the world works.

 

[a123456]

I kind of feel bad for the fire department in all this. A few years ago, that county didn't even have fire department service at all. A fire happened in that county and the citizens of the nearby city felt bad. They voted to *extend* their coverage to the residents that would pay the fees in that particular area. Now, for their generosity, they're getting crucified in the media by a ton of people. Guess they should have just stayed selfish and kept to their own city.

The homeowner is fine. He should be getting more flak. He was criminally negligent by starting fires in his backyard and considering that a barrel was a proper fire containment device. He also had fire insurance on it and the insurance company has already said that they will be paying out in full so he can just go buy a new house with that money and go freeload elsewhere since 75/year was too much for him.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

I can't believe this thread is still alive... lol...

I also can't believe that his insurance company is going pay... who would issue fire insurance to a house that doesn't have some type of public fire coverage? You'd think the insurance company would have some kind of language in its contract requiring this guy to pay his CITY FD fees to keep the coverage active.

 

[Capt Caveman]

I'm didn't read the whole thread, but wasn't this costing tax payers money regardless if they watch the fire burn or put it out. How much more money is spent on putting it out, the pennies the water costs. They could have saved money by not responding, if they're going to respond, put the fire out.

And if a firefighter injured himself or died....

 

[alkemyst]

We are a CAPITALISTIC society. If you want communism or socialism, PLEASE MOVE!

Our country is becoming more socialist everyday...

 

[Svnla]

Those firefighters say they are not the bad guys

Story = http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39535911/ns/us_news-life/?GT1=43001

 

[alkemyst]

I have a hard time accepting the deaths of the animals...but in most people's eyes that was just other property.

The homeowner is painting themselves as a martyr. He's simply another dreg of society looking to take a free lunch when it's not being offered and then offering to pay the menu price when caught.

I am sorry, but it's time we as a nation put our foot down and say no to this, no to one's little retard getting special treatment, no to the gimp getting to be a starter on the team because "it's not his fault", no to giving a middle class life to a pauper because he made the wrong decisions in his life.

 

[Zargon]

The world is not black and white.
I believe MOST things should be decided democratically.
That does not mean that every possible thing should be decided by a vote.

Basic services such as Fire coverage, police coverage, and public education are essentially mandatory services. Therefore, the availabillity of these things should not be decided by a vote. They should be automatic.

they are if you live in a jurisdiction that offers it

that FD was a CITY firedept that offered, for a fee, to cover those who were outside the city limits, IE not paying taxes to their municipality

they have ZERO responsibility to even offer that.

you obviously dont get how that really works

the county fails to offer rural fire protection, he should move to another county. I would never live in an area w/o automatic fire protection, I almost moved out of the city, but the sherrifs office takes an extra 10 minutes to respond and fire service is a joke. and your home owners insurance is generally going to cost more living in such an area too

 

[ChaoZ]

We are a CAPITALISTIC society. If you want communism or socialism, PLEASE MOVE!

Our country is becoming more socialist everyday...

Can't tell if this is sarcasm or not.

 

[Adrenaline]

The news tonight had an interview with the city mayor where the FD is at and he basically said:

If you want service, pay the fee or you don't get it. If you don't pay your electric bill your electricity is cut off.

 

[mafiaboy22]

I just saw my neighbour got hacked by an axe last night. I didn't call 911 since they haven't paid the fees yet. Poor old couple. They "forgot" to pay the fees and now they're gone.


Ofcourse that's not true.. I'm not a saint but I'm still a citizen of this neighborhood. I'll never do that.

 

[alfa147x]

I just saw my neighbour got hacked by an axe last night. I didn't call 911 since they haven't paid the fees yet. Poor old couple. They "forgot" to pay the fees and now they're gone.


Ofcourse that's not true.. I'm not a saint but I'm still a citizen of this neighborhood. I'll never do that.

wat?

 

[Fear No Evil]

I just saw my neighbour got hacked by an axe last night. I didn't call 911 since they haven't paid the fees yet. Poor old couple. They "forgot" to pay the fees and now they're gone.


Ofcourse that's not true.. I'm not a saint but I'm still a citizen of this neighborhood. I'll never do that.

If you were a true American you would have been armed with a firearm and shot the person that axed your neighbor. You then would have driven them to the hospital for some free obamacare. The tools are all there for you to save them, you just decided not to.