firewire vs. usb 2.0

[noodlelegs]

I just bought a Sony DCR TRV22 digital camcorder. I tried transferring video from the camcorder to my computer. The quality is NOT dvd quality (or anywhere near it). I am using Ulead Video Studio 7, win xp, athlon 2600, 512mb ram, 200gig hd.

I think the problem is that i am using the usb 2.0 cable that was provided with the camera. If I use firewire and the correct capture setting, is it possible to capture the same high quality video that i see on my minidv tape? Does usb just suck for video transferring??

thanks,
jon

 

[rbV5]

If I use firewire and the correct capture setting, is it possible to capture the same high quality video that i see on my minidv tape?

Using DV and firewire transfers a copy of the file to your hardrive. It should be same as the original (DV is a lossless codec)

 

[Todd33]

Digital is digital, you cannot lose information in a transfer. You should be getting all the info, it just may look goofy in media player cause it's interlaced. Render it for a DVD and it should look fine. I didn't know the USB could transfer from the miniDV tape, I thought it was for the picture from the memory card. I'd stick to firewire anyhow.

 

[rbV5]

Digital is digital, you cannot lose information in a transfer.

Maybe True, but all connections are not the same. USB in this case is for analog transfer of MPEG video or JPEG stills into your PC, not for lossless DV digital transfer. In order to have the highest quality, you need to use the iLink(firewire) and transfer the video using DV.

It looks like crap because its compressed, lower resolution MPEG.

 

[noodlelegs]

Thanks for the replies. I am going to get a firewire card to install in my comp.
What do you all think of Ulead Video Studio 7.0? It seems kinda basic, yet hard to do simple tasks like laying a music track over video. Is pinnacle better?


thanks
jon

 

[rbV5]

Is pinnacle better?

I haven't used v7.0 of Ulead Video Studio, but based on Pinnacle 8 studio and the earlier versions of Ulead Video Studio that shipped with my AIW cards, Pinnacle Studio is vastly better.

 

[Falloutboy]

Originally posted by: rbV5

Digital is digital, you cannot lose information in a transfer.

Maybe True, but all connections are not the same. USB in this case is for analog transfer of MPEG video or JPEG stills into your PC, not for lossless DV digital transfer. In order to have the highest quality, you need to use the iLink(firewire) and transfer the video using DV.

It looks like crap because its compressed, lower resolution MPEG.

no digital is digital be it transfering Digital Mpeg compressed video or compressed DV thier is no difference

 

[rbV5]

no digital is digital be it transfering Digital Mpeg compressed video or compressed DV thier is no difference

There is a difference my friend. MPEG is a lossy codec, what that means is that you cannot reconstruct a bit for bit copy of the original after MPEG compression. DV is a lossless codec, meaning you can reconstruct a bit for bit perfect copy of the original after being compressed using DV. DV is especially suited for frame accurate editing, while MPEG is sloppy at best. You can do OK using I-frames only, but it is still no comparison, especially in this case.

With a Sony DCR TRV22, you can use USB, sure, but only for transfer MPEG mode movies or JPEG stills. The MPEG mode movies do not compare to using DV.

Both you that suggest you should get the same quality from his camera using either USB or DV have obviously never done it yourselves, and it shows. Here is a nice little tutorial using DV and Video studio 7.

Link.

 

[ShoooterMcGavin]

Agreed about the DV/Mpeg talk.

If you do upgrade your software make sure you go with the new pinnacle 9, it is much better than 7 or 8.

I just bought a pyro professional package. Firewire, Premiere Pro, Encore, and Audition for $440.

Almost everything needed to make sweet DVD's (Aftereffects and Photoshop help a lot).

Shooter

 

[Czar]

if you can get your hands on vegas video then I highly recomend it

 

[rbV5]

I just bought a pyro professional package. Firewire, Premiere Pro, Encore, and Audition for $440

Thats a great deal btw

 

[noodlelegs]

What software do you suggest for a beginner video editor? I have tried my friend's copy of Adobe Premiere and it seems way too advanced/professional.... then again, Ulead Video Studio 7 seems too beginnerish. Anything in between (that can also make cool dvd menus/chapters, etc?

thanks!
jon

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

Digital photography & video is where I want to do.

My mobo has a 1394 port, but in my surfing I have come across 1394b firewire PCI cards.

b is supposed to be twice as fast. Just thought you might like to know


EDIT: Dyslexia, changed 1134 to 1394 and I hadn't had coffee yet..

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: noodlelegs
What software do you suggest for a beginner video editor? I have tried my friend's copy of Adobe Premiere and it seems way too advanced/professional.... then again, Ulead Video Studio 7 seems too beginnerish. Anything in between (that can also make cool dvd menus/chapters, etc?

thanks!
jon

vegas video, extremely simple but so powerful
think you need some other part of vegas for dvd menus and stuff

 

[Pauli]

Originally posted by: rbV5

If I use firewire and the correct capture setting, is it possible to capture the same high quality video that i see on my minidv tape?

Using DV and firewire transfers a copy of the file to your hardrive. It should be same as the original (DV is a lossless codec)

Hey rbV5 - I enjoy your knowledgeable posts, but I don't think you're correct about DV format being lossless. IIRC, it's true that DV does not use temporal compression (i.e. some frames contain only information based on predecessor frames) like MPEG does, but does actually use a lossy compression scheme within each frame (similar to the MJPEG codec). I'm not sure about this, but I believe this is the case. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Matthias99]

I originally thought that DV used a lossless MPEG compression within each frame. That's certainly what's implied by several sources I found on the web, such as this one. However, other sources make it seem like it does use lossy compression, and if it's using JPEG within each frame (which appears to be the standard), it is lossy (although the highest JPEG quality settings are pretty damn close to lossless). There is, however, no A/D conversion in the transfer process, which is usually a much bigger error source than the compression.

 

[hrstruggle]

So, I gather that firewire provides faster transfer of data than USB 2.0? I'm inquiring b/c I'm getting an iPod and want the faster transfer method.

??

 

[rbV5]

Originally posted by: Pauli

Originally posted by: rbV5

If I use firewire and the correct capture setting, is it possible to capture the same high quality video that i see on my minidv tape?

Using DV and firewire transfers a copy of the file to your hardrive. It should be same as the original (DV is a lossless codec)

Hey rbV5 - I enjoy your knowledgeable posts, but I don't think you're correct about DV format being lossless. IIRC, it's true that DV does not use temporal compression (i.e. some frames contain only information based on predecessor frames) like MPEG does, but does actually use a lossy compression scheme within each frame (similar to the MJPEG codec). I'm not sure about this, but I believe this is the case. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

You could be right. My understanding was that it is a lossless transfer of data from the DV tape on the digital camcorder to your hardrive.

The biggest point I was trying to make was specific to this situation. Using the USB on the Sony doesn't allow you to transfer the DV to your hardrive, it is for transfering JPEG stills and MPEG EX mode movies from the memory stick and for low resolution USB streaming (its only USB1.1 btw) While the DV is for actually transfering over the DV.

This thread is about "his" camera use, not about USB vs Firewire transfer in general. Not about MPEG vs DV. Good topics for discussion though.

 

[rbV5]

I guess the key here is, the DV camcorder records to the DV tape, using the iLink interface transfers an exact copy of what is on the DV tape to your hardrive. This transfer itself is lossless, the codec does not even come into play during the transfer. To edit the DV footage in a NLE editor, you can use the DV codec to edit the footage in first generation quality.

 

[GruvThang]

I have the Sony DCR TRV33 which is basically the same. Firewire is the only option for transefering video, especially if quality is a concern. The main issue I had was making sure the software capture setting were where I wanted them (maxed all the way). It makes the after capture "write" take longer, but after the video is there I can chop it up.

 

[Pauli]

Yeah, rbV5, your point is well taken -- the DV transfer through the iLink is lossless and he should definitely be using that instead of the USB transfer option. I also use the pass-thru capabilities of my TRV29 to capture video from my TiVo and VCR in DV format. Much easier than fooling around with capturing from composite or S-Video connections and provides excellent video quality. Not sure if the TRV22 supports pass-thru though.

 

[noodlelegs]

Thanks for all the tips guys.

Vegas Video 4 is amazing. It is exactly what I was looking for. I have tried Adobe Premiere, Ulead Video Studio, Pinnacle, and now Vegas, and Vegas blows them all away (for someone like me, a beginner with lofty goals.)

 

[malage]

Hello:

Analog to Digital conversion question.

I too just purchased a TRV22, however I am having some difficulty with the instructions as presented in the manual. I am attempting to convert old VHS-C tapes from a JVC camcorder to digital and ultimately to my PC to burn on a DVD.

The question is, do I have to use the cable supplied to re-tape onto the TRV22, and then use firewire into the computer, or is there a way to use the TRV22 as a throughput into the computer (sans the DV tape).

Thanks,
malage