Firewire vs USB

[NFS4]

<< let alone that I couldn't use it in Windows Safe mode. >>


If you're having to go into safe mode alot, you got more problems than USB


<< and Finally, the only thing USB is good for. game devices! YES! or is it? DAH STUPID WINDOWS! it doesn't like my USB game ports (both LOGITECH WINGMAN)!! now I can only have on of them connected at once, through the gameport! >>


Err, what are you talking about? I have a USB Logitech FF Steering wheel on USB and had the Gravis Xterminator GamePad on the gameport...worked just fine. Moved the Gravis over to USB with the included adapter....still works fine with the wheel.


<< technologically, USB and USB 2.0 is inferior, because it uses more CPU time first of all! >>


No one is disputing that. Being superior means nothing if you don't have chipset support (i.e. my Duron - Celeron comparison).

 

[pm]

What is it with the bold typeface in this thread, anyway?

Soccerman: I think you are mistaken. IEEE 1394 is Firewire (they are the same thing). Just because something is an IEEE specification does not make it royalty free. It means that the design is fixed on several key parameters so that competing designs are interchangeable, not that the technology is free for use by any and everyone. Apples owns much of the IP used in the 1394 specification and they are able to charge royalties for it's use.

They made, IMO, a tactical mistake when they increases their royalty fee just as the specification was starting to take off. I think (guessing here) that they thought that this was the last chance that they had to do this. The spec was starting to take off, and they had started locking down licensing agreements with manufacturers and were worried that they weren't getting enough out of the old licenses, so they raised the prices for everyone else who was still evaluating the technology for implementation into their chipsets. I think that they simply chose a number that was higher than most were willing to pay and thus are to blame for stalling the adoption of the technology. Companies like Sony and TI who had already agreed to license agreements with Apple continued on with their plans while companies like Intel, Via and others, stalled their progress and backed off of their product plans. Like I said, I'm fairly certain that the royalty issue has been resolved (Apple backed down a little IIRC) and so this just introduced an 18 month delay to the widespread adoption of the spec.

 

[Soccerman]

from what I've been told, IEE1394 is the standard. Apple has the royaltees to use the term Firewire for the same thing..

I could be wrong.

and the bold is to emphasize stuff! people who don't read the whole post therefor might only see the emphasis, and still get what I'm trying to say.

NFS4, yeah I'm pretty sure it's a windows (9x) problem as mentioned in the above post. if I reinstall I bet you anything they'll work fine!

I never go into safe mode anymore. before it was for various reasons (I didn't know you didn't have to install the ALi IDE drivers).

I used to have to go into safe mode to fix it up properly, however now I know that it happens everytime, I know a way around it, so that even if I install them I don't have to do anything in safe mode to fix it.

finally, Safe mode is sometimes useful, and I'd rather not have to worry about compatability in DOS games or utilities (need the correct driver included on CD I think) and Linux (that's the biggest reason why I don't like USB MICE. it's pointless (ie no benefit) and it takes more CPU time, AND in Linux it can cause headaches

 

[pm]

Ah. Soccer, I apologize. Somehow I read what you wrote to mean Firewire is Apple's version of IEEE1394. That they are different things that act the same or something like that. This is, of course, not at all what you wrote, but I misread it.

But anyway, you are right (and I learned a new thing) Apple owns the trademark to the term &quot;firewire&quot;. But I'm also correct in saying that they own more of the 1394 spec. than a fancy name for it. You can't avoid paying royalties to Apple by calling your firewire card a 1394 card - or an i-Link card. I personally think that they temporarily killed support for it by trying to charge to much for the right to use it. But that's my opinion.

As far as USB, the single biggest advantage to it over the current situation is that it's mostly brain-dead. No one has to figure out which port on the back is the mouse port or the keyboard port, or the serial port or the parallel port. You can plug anything and everything that's USB into any USB slot that you want. This alone will save computer manufacturers untold millions in technical support calls (tongue in cheek, but probably not too far off).

As far as the performance hit, most major workstations and servers are starting to ship with USB ports on them. It can't be that bad overall if HP C3600's are shipping with them. Also, I would bet (but don't know for a fact) that the overall effect of removing the IRQ's for the mouse and the keyboard and moving them to the USB port where there is only one IRQ is an overall win. IRQ's hurt system performance, while USB hurts CPU performance. You don't notice IRQ polling because it's not covered under CPU usage, but it is there. If I had a bunch of USB stuff, I'd try and test my theory, but I do agree with you about Linux. I have thus far tried to avoid USB because I work under Linux and thus need everything working.