Firewood theft. This an ethical way to deal with it?

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kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,060
38,571
136
Also, I forgot to mention. They have these things called dogs.

I've found my pair of large Anatolians extremely persuasive in making others respect the boundaries of my property, ensuring the safety of everything on it. Guardian breeds are great. Can't really sneak up on them, can't sweet talk or bribe them, and they don't back down from any threat. Highly recommended.
 
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rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,371
14
61
Also, I forgot to mention. They have these things called dogs.

I've found my pair of large Anatolians extremely persuasive in making others respect the boundaries of my property, ensuring the safety of everything on it. Can't really sneak up on them, can't sweet talk or bribe them, and they don't back down from any threat. Highly recommended.

LIES!

 

Sho'Nuff

Diamond Member
Jul 12, 2007
6,211
121
106
So the poll question: Is is ethical to plant this kind of boobytrap to deter theft?

Not only is it unethical, setting mantraps to deter theft of property is almost universally illegal in the United States.

There are myriad cases (old and new) where someone has set a trap (e.g. a spring gun) to deter thieves, only to end up being prosecuted by the state and/or sued by the thieves family for injuries sustained by the thief as he/she tried to break into a protected area.
 

NetWareHead

THAT guy
Aug 10, 2002
5,854
154
106
Not only is it unethical, setting mantraps to deter theft of property is almost universally illegal in the United States.

There are myriad cases (old and new) where someone has set a trap (e.g. a spring gun) to deter thieves, only to end up being prosecuted by the state and/or sued by the thieves family for injuries sustained by the thief as he/she tried to break into a protected area.

This is an interesting legal question. Is a log considered a man/booby trap?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katko_v._Briney

Case summary: A guy rigged a shotgun to fire when a door was opened in a vacant property. Somebody broke in and was wounded by the shotgun. The victim later sued the property owner.

"The Court ruled that using deadly force on intruders in an unoccupied property was not reasonable or justified. Briney would have been justified in defending himself with the shotgun if he had been home during the intrusion. The plaintiff's status as a trespasser is irrelevant when assessing liability in this case.

The case stands for the proposition that, though a landowner has no duty to make his property safe for trespassers, he may not set deadly traps against them, holding that "the law has always placed a higher value upon human safety than upon mere rights in property."

The log bomb is not exactly a man-trap or booby trap. It is merely an object that was stolen which later caused injury. I wonder how this would play out in court. Any lawyers want to comment?
 

Carson Dyle

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2012
8,174
524
126
Install some video cameras. The idea of a boobytrap sounds like the work of the imagination of a gamer with his head up his ass and no appreciation of reality.
 

AViking

Platinum Member
Sep 12, 2013
2,264
1
0
If this was legal I think that armored trucks and ATM's would use explosive charges to kill robbers rather than just ruining the money.
 

Childs

Lifer
Jul 9, 2000
11,450
7
81
if someone is desperate enough to steal wood, then they need it more than me. Yes it sucks but its wood, its free. Write it off on your taxes but don't put someone's life in danger just because they are trying to stay warm.

I couldn't imagine being so cold in my home that a sweater and/or blanket couldnt keep me warm. If they need the wood that bad, they can have it. No need to try to maim someone who is trying to keep their family warm. Of course they could just be cheap scumbags, but there is no way to know so I'd just assume they needed the wood.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,599
19
81
Whatever happened to just getting a damn dog? Some of you people are nuts.
Would the dog be equipped with explosives?



I'd rather them charge me the extra 30%. Wait staff gets tipped because of the crappy wage.
Charge more. "Hey, let me work my ass off and I'll charge you $50 in the hopes you give me $75."

Bro in law does tree work full time. Gets paid to take down the tree and haul it off. Splits and re sells the hardwood. Makes boards out of the pine and re sells. It is hard/dangerous/expensive work so charge accordingly.

As far as the diesel, the sanitation businesses have added a fuel surcharge.
I still find these "fuel surcharges" amusing. I was born in the early 80s. Did I miss the $0.00/gallon gas?
 
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rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,371
14
61
I couldn't imagine being so cold in my home that a sweater and/or blanket couldnt keep me warm. If they need the wood that bad, they can have it. No need to try to maim someone who is trying to keep their family warm. Of course they could just be cheap scumbags, but there is no way to know so I'd just assume they needed the wood.

Yep. I would feel warm and fuzzy knowing that I helped a family in need. Of course the reality could be much different, but I'd still think I helped a family.

I guess I've never lived in a place where people would resort to this. Neighbors are there to help each other and sharing wood with someone who needed it would be a no brainer.
 

bononos

Diamond Member
Aug 21, 2011
3,894
162
106
I would wholeheartedly endorse lethal booby traps to prevent theft, but not in the manner suggested. Too high a chance of innocents being hurt. Maybe use a proximity fuse on the explosive so that it goes off once it's moved x-feet from the woodpile. Let it blow up in the thieves hands, not in their kids faces.

Like punji pit trap near the woodpile? I don't think thats legal, its like rigging up a shotgun when the front door opens.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
67,917
12,379
126
www.anyf.ca
Also, I forgot to mention. They have these things called dogs.

I've found my pair of large Anatolians extremely persuasive in making others respect the boundaries of my property, ensuring the safety of everything on it. Guardian breeds are great. Can't really sneak up on them, can't sweet talk or bribe them, and they don't back down from any threat. Highly recommended.

They also have these things called guns, and you can also get these things called silencers (not required). The last thing I'd want to do is put my pet on the front lines of an area that is being hit by thieves.

As fun as boobie traps would be unfortunately they're not legal (they should be, it's your own property) the best thing is to just lock up the wood as previously suggested. Various advances in construction tech has allowed for structures to be built that are big enough to hold even "a lot of wood".
 

highland145

Lifer
Oct 12, 2009
43,561
5,964
136
I still find these "fuel surcharges" amusing. I was born in the early 80s. Did I miss the $0.00/gallon gas?
Hell, they paid me to take it.....
I guess I've never lived in a place where people would resort to this. Neighbors are there to help each other and sharing wood with someone who needed it would be a no brainer.
Absolutely but 1) fucking ask and 2) they're probably re-selling it.
 

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,371
14
61
Hell, they paid me to take it.....
Absolutely but 1) fucking ask and 2) they're probably re-selling it.

Well yea. Actually. ..I think it would go more like

"you know rudeguy, I don't think I have enough wood to make it through winter."

I chopped up plenty. Help yourself.

"Thanks. I'll get you back this summer."

That's just what I am used to.
 

highland145

Lifer
Oct 12, 2009
43,561
5,964
136
Well yea. Actually. ..I think it would go more like

"you know rudeguy, I don't think I have enough wood to make it through winter."

I chopped up plenty. Help yourself.

"Thanks. I'll get you back this summer."

That's just what I am used to.
As it should be.

Would you like to meet some of my clientele? SOB today said I should give him a break because of the weather. EmEffer is due for 8/2013. I think I will help him out.

Of his house, if I can.
 

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,371
14
61
As it should be.

Would you like to meet some of my clientele? SOB today said I should give him a break because of the weather. EmEffer is due for 8/2013. I think I will help him out.

Of his house, if I can.

Is it a school bus?
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,060
38,571
136
They also have these things called guns, and you can also get these things called silencers (not required). The last thing I'd want to do is put my pet on the front lines of an area that is being hit by thieves.

I see a couple problems here: First, the notion that people desperate enough to steal small amounts of firewood have the money/desire to get suppressors, as well as the stones to use them for what you are insinuating.
Second, I said dogs, specifically working dogs which fall into the guardian category. I'm not talking about your prissy little pet Airdale that is an 'indoor' dog. Anatolians and others maintain a constant state of paranoid vigilance, and let trespassers know they are trespassing quite a ways off so as to avoid unnecessary conflict. If that warning is ignored, well it would suck to be the trespasser.

I just don't see someone, even armed, sneaking up on a detail of dogs and somehow managing to kill them in the dark (maybe they have night vision to go along with the suppressors?) without alerting the property owner. Or anyone else living in the area.

These dogs have been used for centuries to protect livestock and land for a reason: they're good at it.
 

jagec

Lifer
Apr 30, 2004
24,442
6
81
Second, I said dogs, specifically working dogs which fall into the guardian category. I'm not talking about your prissy little pet Airdale that is an 'indoor' dog. Anatolians and others maintain a constant state of paranoid vigilance, and let trespassers know they are trespassing quite a ways off so as to avoid unnecessary conflict. If that warning is ignored, well it would suck to be the trespasser.

These dogs have been used for centuries to protect livestock and land for a reason: they're good at it.

Dogs are great for deterring wildlife and casual thieves. But a lot of "guard dog" owners are surprised by how cozy their dogs will get to a stranger who feeds them.

Or even if the dogs will still growl while the thief is present, they can just throw poisoned meat over the fence and come back in half an hour.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,060
38,571
136
Dogs are great for deterring wildlife and casual thieves. But a lot of "guard dog" owners are surprised by how cozy their dogs will get to a stranger who feeds them.

Sounds like you agree with me. I won't bother debating what you or these owners constitute as guard dogs though. I have been quite specific about what I am referring to - someone calling their dog a guard dog because they're not a small breed and have a studded collar is in no way comparable to guardian breeds who have been doing their jobs via bred instinct and not training for, in the case of my breed, between 5000 and 6000 years depending on who you talk to.

You did touch on one aspect that I used to be worried about though, the food tactic. I have seen some guard dogs completely change their demeanor when thrown some chicken parts, and it bugged me. To that end I took advantage of two friends visiting me once from out of town to help me find out if my dogs would succumb to the same temptation. These two and I go way back, and meet up every couple of years for a get together so we can hang out and party, maybe do a little fishing or shooting while we re live the old days. I picked them up at Logan and before we even made it back to the car they were stoked to play the role of trespassers bearing gifts of food, just so long as teeth weren't involved. I assured them they would be supervised, and would have an electric fence between them and the dogs. We bought some cheap steak and fresh bones at the store on the way home. Dropped them off at the end of my driveway and proceeded up my house and parked the car. Gave them a few minutes, then snuck outside on my deck in hopes of seeing the encounter begin. The dogs sent up the alarm when they are a good 200yards away still, and proceeded to look mean. My buddy Dave threw a piece of meat over the electric fence, and while the dogs sniffed it initially, they didn't eat it. When he tried to insert a bone between the lines as an offering, they charged, with my male climbing through 10,000volts like it was just a cloud of blackflies. My friends hauled ass and when I got down there they were both standing on top of my Kubota like treed raccoons.

A good time was had by all. While my female ASD now loves both of these guys, the male has remained suspicious and aloof whenever they visit. To this day he won't let either of them touch him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK_6ARKYBvc Kinda what I'm talking about. These dogs had probably heard that woman's voice before, knew her scent, seen her around, but she decided to trespass on an area they were charged with protecting. Bad call.
These dogs were groomed to not just handle wolves, lions and bears, but also rustlers. You know, livestock thieves. People.
 

BurnItDwn

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
26,127
1,604
126
Boobie traps are ethical if you can guarantee you only kill the thief. The problem is, the boobie trap may have killed the thief's family, or, maybe the thief ran an illegal operation and resold the firewood to unsuspecting people who thought they were buying legal.

So, I do not think that explosives in the firewood are ethical, however, a bear trap in front of the firewood, or putting up some barbed wire would not be unethical IMO.
 
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