FiringSquad technically breaks down the PS2. In short.. they don't like it.

[Zucchini]

Its because we've seen many console wars through the years. I think its better to take a wait a see attitude to new consoles.. especially in this case. If you have the money to support both a gaming pc and support a ps2 habit, more power to you.

As many have said b4, the bashing continues because of the hype that sony was responsible for. Developers might be able to squeeze decent graphics from a inefficient system, but a developer using a more powerful system could do even better

 

[AlabamaMan]

I love the random fact from the 3D Performance Architect.. then his little bit at the end gave me a laugh. Anyone care to guess who said it?

Ok, I'll venture a guess. Kristof?

 

[LXi]

Whats that habit thing all about? Is there anything wrong for being a football fan and a basketball fan? I dont think so, PC vs console topics have been beaten to death and never do we see a clear winner(sorta like the Presidential Election now), why do you think there is no winner? PC supporters claiming superiority and so do the console supporters. The thing they dont realize is that these two flatforms should not to be compared directly against each other. Who cares if your system is running a pathetic TNT2 M64? Who cares if PS2 only has 4MB of RAM? As long as it serves its purpose, there is nothing to blame.

I do agree that PS2 is overhyped, Sony made a vital mistake by releasing all the info about PS2 long before its launched. The attention towards Dreamcast was underwhelming, one of reason why it surprised a lot of people. Like I said you should never have too much hope in something. One of reason why Voodoo5 was a semi-failure is because it's tremendously overhyped due 3dfx's incapability of delivering it on time. After all, why bash the PS2 system if it has your favorite games on it and it pumps up eye-candy graphics? Same reason why Im gonna buy the overhyped V5.

 

[Zucchini]

hey hey, i didnt know using the word habit would be offensive..

face it we're talking about gaming here.. whether it be on pc or console it is a hobby. Habit is a perfect word for that.

 

[LXi]

Im not saying its offending anyone, I just dont think its the right word for it. I like both PCs and consoles, but its not my habit of supporting both a PC and PS2. I would call it a preference.

 

[Zucchini]

i know it implies something bad like drugs, but there are some parrallels. Both are expensive as hell if you get into it.. and pretty addicting.

If you want to add anime to this list it really gets bad.

 

[LXi]

<<If you want to add anime to this list it really gets bad.>>

Oh yes, they're all on my list. I wont be getting a PS2 until next year though.

 

[Hardware]

The 4Mb videoram is a clear design flaw by hardware which cannot be 100% resolved by software!
I got a dc last week because its cheap $112 and all games 230! are <$1

 

[LXi]

Its not a design flaw, no matter what you say.

 

[pg22]

i just sold my DC tonight

 

[LXi]

Why? Saving up for PS2?

 

[Zucchini]

Something that holds a system back could be considered a flaw.

 

[LXi]

<<Something that holds a system back could be considered a flaw.>>

Is it holding the PS2 back? I dont think so.

 

[Zucchini]

why are limitations not bad?

 

[fs5]

Mixxen: I remember that, stocking up on potions! What I used was one of those turbo pads (you know the one where you can hold down the button and it acts like a turbo), and put a big fat rock on the A button and left it for like half an hour. That way it would just keep buying potions until I came back

Well I'm going to buy FFIX, hopefully I can find the time this time around to actually finish the $@$%@ game. I think I got to the second disc of FF7 and the 2nd disc of FF8.

 

[Hardware]

Think about a Geforce2 GTS Ultra with 4 MB ram and you get the point!

 

[LXi]

<<Think about a Geforce2 GTS Ultra with 4 MB ram and you get the point!>>

Fool, you think you can run 1600x1200 on your TV? No! 4MB is more than enough for the TV resolutions, get it now? Good.

 

[Hardware]

LXi I suggest you get a closer look to the PS2 hardware and come back!

 

[pg22]

&quot;Think about a Geforce2 GTS Ultra with 4 MB ram and you get the point!&quot;

Funny...last time I checked, My 1GHZ P3 w/ Geforce 2 GTS get's BLOWN AWAY in Madden 2001 by the PS2 version (I have both).

Complain about the 4MB of VRAM to a bunch of guys who don't spend their lives on forums and would rather play a football game.

 

[Teatowel]

Looking at the link, the PS2 may well be weaker than the XBox and the Gamecube. The reviewer writes that the current games are technically no better than those on the Dreamcast. But look at what the first generation of PS games were like eg Ridge Racer, and compare that to Ridge Racer Type 4.

It is only a matter of time before codeshops really get their teeth into developing for it. I for one didn't like either the PS, but the quality of the games made me buy one. Just cos it may be technically deficient compared to the hype, so what?

Whatever anyone says, they are going to sell loads. Let us hope the Dreamcast isn't left for dead by developers.

 

[Zucchini]

As for the question of why one would want more then 4mb of memory for low res tv games.. Just think about it, the more textures, the more realistic a game will look. Just look at driving games.. the less memory you have the more the buildings look the same. More is better no matter how you look at it.

 

[LXi]

Hardware:

I suggest you acutally play the console before spilling out any of your BS.


Zucchini:

<<As for the question of why one would want more then 4mb of memory for low res tv games.. Just think about it, the more textures, the more realistic a game will look. Just look at driving games.. the less memory you have the more the buildings look the same. More is better no matter how you look at it.>>

Read the section where Alan talks about the 4MB limitation, he explain the Graphic Synthesizer has a unique way of handling textures, its drastically different from PC video cards. You cant really judge the performance of the PS2 base on the PC standards. Plus, what makes you think the buildings on PS2 dont look realistic enough already?

 

[Chad]

Well, i'm no hardware expert.. but proof is ALWAYS in the pudding. Right now... the PS2 IMO is a scosh under what the AAA Dreamcast titles are doing graphically. I know with time this will get better, and I don't know if that's a testament to the Dreamcast's hardware and API or if it's a de-testament to the PS2 hardware... but pudding is pudding is pudding. Maybe it comes from only having 4 megs of VRAM, maybe something entirely different, but in the end.. SOMETHING is bottlenecking that system.

Could it be the API?

Can't wait for Gran Tourismo 3 and Metal Gear Solid 2 though!!!! THOSE titles will justify a PS2 purchase fo sho!

 

[Erasmus-X]

<< With 4MB video ram the biggest design flaw in history since the n64 rom modules! >>



Yet another classic troll statement from our good ol friend, Hardware.

You seem to be quick to tell people like LXi that they're not up to their specs, but quite frankly, you're the one who seems to be just a BIT misinformed.

It comes as somewhat of a surprise to me that nobody has really mentioned that the PS2 uses embedded video memory. This means that the memory is built right into the GS's processor die and benefits from the full clock speed (150MHz) and a massive 48GB/sec local memory bandwidth (notice how I said local; the the core bandwidth of the PS2 outside of the GS's bus is actually 3.2GB/sec). Using embedded memory has its advantages. The key advantage is its ability to swap textures within the graphics bus at alarming speed. 4MB doesn't seem like a lot when you compare the PS2 to your latest GF2 Ultra with 64MB of DDR memory, but you're really comparing two entirely different beasts. With embedded memory, you get much faster texture transfers, and thus these textures don't need to remain resident in memory for near as long as they would on a external memory solution used by every single consumer-level graphics card. Really, 4MB is sufficient (for now, at least) for what the PS2 was designed to do, and that is to output to TVs at standard NTSC resolution (which is only 480 lines of horizontal resolution, at 60Hz refresh). We're not driving 19&quot; displays at 1280x1024x85Hz here! Naturally, higher resolutions eat up more memory because of their larger pixel counts.

Evidently, you don't even OWN a PS2 (hell, I'd even be suprised if you actually own one of those NVIDIA cards you brag about so much). I tend to agree with pg19 about the Madden 2001 PC vs. PS2 comparison. The PS2 version wins HANDS DOWN (unmatched playability and quality).

Don't take this personally man, I just feel that comparing the PS2's graphics engine to that of NVIDIA's newest toy is simply ludicrous.

 

[LXi]

Erasmus-X:

Thank you very much, I'd love to see Hardware come up with an answer to your statements. Very well said.


Hardware:

I asked Alan Dang who wrote the FiringSquad article
&quot;Do you consider the 4MB limitation a major design flaw of the PS2?&quot;

Alan said,
&quot;Tough to say. They need more memory for sure, but design needs to take COST into acct. too, right? So you can't say that 4MB is a flaw and 8MB is what they needed if 8MB would make the chip too expensive. It's an &quot;issue&quot; but not a flaw. Very subtle difference. Honestly, you'd have to wait for the real big-budget games to make a fair statement.&quot;

Now, respond to us if you have the guts.