First Build, First-time Builder

[Repetes3]

Hello,

First, a congratulations and general 'thank you' for the good work done here - it's refreshing to see so much expertise shared so readily and less-than-knowledgeable newcomers made to feel welcome.

I've been using my old Pentium 4 for over eight years, and would have done so happily for more if it hadn't given into old age. But constantly having to fight with it to work is getting tiresome, so it's time for that overdue new machine.

It's probably best for me to start with the set questions and list some other requirements after that:

****

1. PC Use/Must-Haves: A Home/Office set-up with an emphasis on watching video, I will also want to do some basic video, audio and photo editing occasionally; burning CD's and DVD's is an absolute requirement. Not one for gaming, save for the occasional Civilization or Football Manager, nothing graphically intensive. No excessive tinkering or maintenance, reasonably quiet, reliable and with longevity. Front panel USB 3.0.

2. Budget: A ceiling of ~£1000, but as much under this is good, without compromising too much speed or reliability. I'd like to be able to weight the spend in favour of a quality monitor.

3. Country: UK

4. Vendors: Few biases in who I buy from (apart from Dabs!) - I don't mind doing the work to try and find deals, knowing that I'm not buying the wrong parts.

5. Brand Preference: Apart from the Intel CPU, my only other fanboy tendencies come from having read a mountain of reviews of components, e.g. Samsung SSD's. Absolutely ready to be persuaded about Brand-X.

6. Existing Parts: Keyboard, mouse, speakers, Win 7 64

7. No overclocking

8. Resolution: 1920*1080 or 1920*1200.

9. When: I want this asap, certainly have my shiny new computer working before the end of August.

10. No software purchases necessary immediately.

****

A parts list that I've put together after too much reading - e.g. I don't think I have the willpower to read about another case. I'm more confident about the merits of some components than others in here, e.g. are "basic" memory modules sufficient? I've listed two monitors but only need one - will the Dell suffice for the usage I've outlined above, or does the Asus definitively show off the extra £100? Is there something else at a similar price point that I've overlooked? CPU cooling - is stock enough for me?


CPU: Intel Core i5-4670 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor (£167.99 @ Aria PC)
Motherboard: Asus H87-PRO ATX LGA1150 Motherboard (£87.44 @ Scan.co.uk)
Memory: Kingston 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (£55.00 @ Ebuyer)
Storage: Samsung 840 Series 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk (£71.99 @ Aria PC)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (£48.36 @ CCL Computers)
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 (Titanium Grey) ATX Mid Tower Case (£75.98 @ Aria PC)
Power Supply: SeaSonic G 550W 80 PLUS Gold Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply (£76.26 @ Scan.co.uk)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional Full (32/64-bit) (£0.00)
Monitor: Dell U2412M 60Hz 24.0" Monitor (£203.99 @ Aria PC)
Monitor: Asus PA248Q 24.1" Monitor (£314.44 @ Amazon UK)
Total: £1101.45

(Generated 2013-08-15)


There's also a Pioneer DVR-S20BK writer for about £20 that I couldn't show on the list - it's cheap and my previous Pioneer has outlasted the PC without a problem.

Thanks in advance for reading all of this...any advice about better options or things I've missed will be very welcome!

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Well, hello and welcome to the forums...

Just a couple of quick questions:

Is there any particular reason for the dissimilar monitors?. I'd recommend finding a nice 27" IPS 1440p instead. But that is just my own personal preference. The real killer feature for 1440p is that you're able to view two A4s full size side-by-side. Very handy for office work.

You wrote about playing the occasional game of Civilization. Might I ask which version, because the Intel HD4600 is just not going to cut it for 1080p or 1440p Civ5...

 

[Repetes3]

Well, hello and welcome to the forums...

Just a couple of quick questions:

Is there any particular reason for the dissimilar monitors?...

You wrote about playing the occasional game of Civilization. Might I ask which version, because the Intel HD4600 is just not going to cut it for 1080p or 1440p Civ5...

Thanks very much for your reply.

I don't know why I just assumed that Civ 4 or 5 would not be a major draw on resources for their graphics - possibly because it's one of the very few games I've any interest in playing. It's not important enough to make me spend any more on the build right now though.

Forgive me for being slow with regard to your question about the monitors; are you suggesting that they are miles apart in terms of quality? I'll point out again that it's not a two-monitor setup I'm aiming for, I only included two that kept appearing in the numerous reviews I've read.

As for a 27 inch monitor, it's for a bedroom and I don't think I can justify it enough to get permission yet

 

[lehtv]

You should be able to balance the cost of the monitors vs the cost of the PC itself. I.e. take two £200 Dell monitors and add a 7850

By dissimilar monitors he probably meant that there's no point buying two different monitors when you can buy two similar ones. Obviously, it is the ideal solution to have panels with the exact same visual appearance, pixel density etc. But since you only want one monitor, just get the Dell, it's a lot cheaper than that Asus and it's excellent

CPU since you're not OC'ing I think a Xeon is more suitable for your uses and budget. Xeon E3-1230 V3 Should be about £200, but I'm not sure why it's not available anywhere. Scan has it listed but it's "awaiting an ETA" - maybe ask Scan when they're getting more?
Cooling I'd quiet down the CPU with an Arctic i30 £28
Mobo You should be fine with an MSI H87 G41 £72
RAM make sure it's 1.5V, not higher
SSD I probably would skip the 840 120GB since it's TLC NAND which has lower endurance. The 250GB is large enough not to be a risk at all but for a smaller SSD I'd look into Kingston V300, Sandisk Ultra, Plextor M5S or Corsair Neutron
HDD I don't understand the choice of a 750GB Blue. Why not just get a 1TB Blue, or even a 2TB Seagate? If you plan to have any media storage, especially video, chances are you'll have the whole 1TB drive filled up pretty fast.
Case Good
PSU overpriced at £76 and more powerful than you need. You'll be just fine with a Seasonic G360 £48

If you want some gaming performance, an MSI 7790 £100 would do the job

 

[Repetes3]

Thanks so much, lehtv.

That was a mistake on my part with the 750GB hard drive, now amended. I'd always had a 1TB-7200 in mind, with the possibility of buying more external storage later when necessary.

The SSD thank you! I did read about NAND and the different types, but got kind of lost. Again, it unfortunately has to be a balance between cost and function right now, so it's the 120-128GB models I'm looking at. I'll take your helpful list away and have another look.

I like the saving on the mobo - I see it has more than enough display-out options and copious SATA/USB ports too. Is it simply a cost difference between that and the Asus?

I knew that I was overdoing it with the PSU too, a mix of trying to ensure full Haswell compatibility and account for the possibility of adding a modest graphics card in future if necessary. Would the 360 still leave me room to do so?

The cost savings above would pay for the i30 that I'll definitely take on board - paranoid about keeping it cool.

Monitor: thanks, the Dell U2412M is winning.

The CPU: I hadn't ever considered a Xeon really, dismissing them as something 'not for the likes of me'. I've found one left in stock at another place for £198, but it's warning me that it doesn't carry integrated graphics. Is this true for all of them? In effect it would cost an extra ~£130 for the Xeon and necessary GPU over the 4670? Hmmmm...

Seriously, thanks for taking the time to reply lehtv, it's so helpful to know that I'm not making missteps at every turn!

 

[mfenn]

The CPU: I hadn't ever considered a Xeon really, dismissing them as something 'not for the likes of me'. I've found one left in stock at another place for £198, but it's warning me that it doesn't carry integrated graphics. Is this true for all of them? In effect it would cost an extra ~£130 for the Xeon and necessary GPU over the 4670? Hmmmm...

The E3-12X5 parts have IGPs, but the E3-12X0 parts do not. I think that lehtv was under the assumption that you were going to be buying a GPU, since one is pretty much required for Civ 5. Civ 5 is intense enough that it's still used for benchmarking GPUs on this very site.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

I don't know why I just assumed that Civ 4 or 5 would not be a major draw on resources for their graphics - possibly because it's one of the very few games I've any interest in playing. It's not important enough to make me spend any more on the build right now though.

Its just that Civ5 is still one of the most evil things you can throw at an IGP. That game requires a discrete card...

Though not necessarily a high-end one. A HD7770/90 (or GTX650ti with/without boost) is very decent and relatively inexpensive.

Forgive me for being slow with regard to your question about the monitors; are you suggesting that they are miles apart in terms of quality? I'll point out again that it's not a two-monitor setup I'm aiming for, I only included two that kept appearing in the numerous reviews I've read.

As for a 27 inch monitor, it's for a bedroom and I don't think I can justify it enough to get permission yet

I see. They where only options. In that case I am in full agreement with lehtv. The Dell is very good for the price, but I think I have heard something about a fair amount of defective panels. So make sure you can return it if there's as problem. (someone please correct me if I'm wrong)

Mobo You should be fine with an MSI H87 G41 £72

If you don't want to use a discrete card, then I think the Asus board is a better choice, as it has displayport (a bit of future proofing). As an alternative you could look at the H87M Pro, the mATX version. Unless you need PCI support of course...

 

[Repetes3]

@I_M: OK, I'll admit to another level of ignorance - why might I need PCI support that the H87M-Pro wouldn't give? A cursory check shows it to be about the same price too - is its smaller size the only difference that I'm likely to see?

Also, I'd be sure to send back any defective monitor I chose soon enough - did I read that different manufacturers have different tolerances for returns due to defects?

@lehtv: I've had a look at the SSD's you suggested - the Sandisk Ultra Plus looks like a fair choice, right?

@All: The PSU - I really underestimated Civ 5 Even if I hold off on the graphics card for now, I'd like to keep the option of adding one at a later date, maybe at Christmas time when I could maybe push for one that's more than a most basic, entry-level one. My updated choices wouldn't prevent this I assume?

And lehtv's suggestion of the Seasonic G360 PSU - it looks sufficient now but would it leave enough for possible future additons like that graphics card? And what are the prospects like for me keeping all those cables tidy inside the R4?

Thanks again!

****

CPU: Intel Core i5-4670 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor (£167.99 @ Aria PC)
CPU Cooler: Arctic Cooling ACFZI30 74.0 CFM Fluid Dynamic Bearing CPU Cooler (£27.83)
Motherboard: Asus H87-PRO ATX LGA1150 Motherboard (£87.44 @ Scan.co.uk)
Memory: Kingston 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (£55.00 @ Ebuyer)
Storage: Sandisk Ultra Plus 128GB 2.5" Solid State Disk (£72.96 @ Amazon UK)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (£48.36 @ CCL Computers)
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 (Titanium Grey) ATX Mid Tower Case (£75.98 @ Aria PC)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 360W 80 PLUS Gold Certified ATX12V Power Supply (£56.49 @ Amazon UK)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional Full (32/64-bit) (£0.00)
Monitor: Dell U2412M 60Hz 24.0" Monitor (£203.99 @ Aria PC)
Total: £796.04

(Generated 2013-08-15)

 

[lehtv]

PCI and PCIe are not mutually compatible so you would need a board with PCI slots to support PCI expansion cards. It is mostly a legacy connector though, so unless you own PCI devices that you want to use (sound card, wireless adapter etc), you will be fine with a board that only has the newer PCIe slots.

Yes, I think the Ultra Plus is decent. I would however prefer M5S over it if only paying a few £ more. It's £75 at Scan. There's not much difference in practice but the controller on the M5S is probably regarded to be more reliable.

If you don't want a graphics card, then I guess the i5 is a better choice.

The PSU supports any graphics card that requires one 6-pin power connector, and given that your PC isn't that power hungry in other respects, you could power a 2x6-pin card just fine as well, using a molex-PCIe adapter.

Cable management in the R4 is easy, it's a pretty roomy case.

As for the motherboard, I don't think the Asus board is worth it for you. It just doesn't bring anything to the table that you need. On a board with no overclocking, you don't need heat sinks over voltage regulators. They have the same audio and network chips. Asus has better fan control but you will be connecting fans to the case's integrated controller anyway.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

@I_M: OK, I'll admit to another level of ignorance - why might I need PCI support that the H87M-Pro wouldn't give? A cursory check shows it to be about the same price too - is its smaller size the only difference that I'm likely to see?

There are no stupid questions, only stupid answers...

mATX is just smaller then regular ATX. I see little reason to go with a full size ATX board these days, unless you need the additional expansion ports (PCIe/Legacy PCI). But its only my own personal preference. mATX boards are generally slightly less power hungry, but that depends 100% on the board in question. Which leads to:

PCI and PCIe are not mutually compatible so you would need a board with PCI slots to support PCI expansion cards. It is mostly a legacy connector though, so unless you own PCI devices that you want to use (sound card, wireless adapter etc), you will be fine with a board that only has the newer PCIe slots.

What lehtv wrote. If you don't already have any expansion cards, then you're very unlikely to ever need a PCI slot. Also everything that you might need (wireless adaptor etc.) comes in PCIe format today.

Yes, I think the Ultra Plus is decent. I would however prefer M5S over it if only paying a few £ more. It's £75 at Scan. There's not much difference in practice but the controller on the M5S is probably regarded to be more reliable.

Generally for anything important I recommend either Plextor, Intel or Samsung. Don't forget a good backup solution.

 

[Repetes3]

There are no stupid questions, only stupid answers...

Very kind, Sir...sure us newbies test your patience for that motto sometimes too!

I would however prefer M5S over it...not much difference in practice but the controller on the M5S is probably regarded to be more reliable.

Thanks - reliability wins!

As for the motherboard, I don't think the Asus board is worth it for you. It just doesn't bring anything to the table that you need.

If you don't already have any expansion cards, then you're very unlikely to ever need a PCI slot. Also everything that you might need (wireless adaptor etc.) comes in PCIe format today.

Nope, no expansion cards here so anything like that would be a future purchase. I noticed that one you recommended previously, lehtv, doesn't have DisplayPort on it - would this similarly priced alternative work as well for me?

 

[mfenn]

Nope, no expansion cards here so anything like that would be a future purchase. I noticed that one you recommended previously, lehtv, doesn't have DisplayPort on it - would this similarly priced alternative work as well for me?

Yes, that would work. Truth be told though, DVI and HDMI are going to be around for a very long time. You're unlikely to buy a monitor in the next 10 years that doesn't have one of those ports.

 

[Repetes3]

I'm being greedy, mfenn

Looks like I'm good to go with this then:

CPU: Intel Core i5-4670 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor
CPU Cooler: Arctic Cooling ACFZI30 74.0 CFM Fluid Dynamic Bearing CPU Cooler
Motherboard: MSI H87M-G43 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard
Memory: Kingston 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory
Storage: Plextor M5S Series 128GB 2.5" Solid State Disk
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 (Titanium Grey) ATX Mid Tower Case
Power Supply: SeaSonic 360W 80 PLUS Gold Certified ATX12V Power Supply
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional Full (32/64-bit)
Monitor: Dell U2412M 60Hz 24.0" Monitor


Thanks very much to all of for helping with this. I might well be back with questions if the buying isn't as straightforward as I hope, if not to just show off the finished article. Cheers!

 

[Rorda]

I would advise you to get the new Samsung 840 EVO. It's super fast and not even that much more exspensive here in the Netherlands, so I doubt it will be a huge difference in the UK.

 

[mfenn]

I'm being greedy, mfenn

Looks like I'm good to go with this then:

CPU: Intel Core i5-4670 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor
CPU Cooler: Arctic Cooling ACFZI30 74.0 CFM Fluid Dynamic Bearing CPU Cooler
Motherboard: MSI H87M-G43 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard
Memory: Kingston 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory
Storage: Plextor M5S Series 128GB 2.5" Solid State Disk
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 (Titanium Grey) ATX Mid Tower Case
Power Supply: SeaSonic 360W 80 PLUS Gold Certified ATX12V Power Supply
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional Full (32/64-bit)
Monitor: Dell U2412M 60Hz 24.0" Monitor


Thanks very much to all of for helping with this. I might well be back with questions if the buying isn't as straightforward as I hope, if not to just show off the finished article. Cheers!

That looks good except the choice of Windows 7 Pro Retail. What specific feature of Pro do you need over Home Premium? Secondly, the full retail version is much more expensive than the OEM one. Given that you don't upgrade very often, the transferability of the Retail SKU isn't getting you much. Getting Windows 7 HP saves you £100. That's easily enough to get the 840 Evo that Rorda mentioned.

 

[Repetes3]

Sorry mfenn, I should have made it clear that I already have the Windows disc, I only included it for completeness in case there were any possible compatibility issues.

I probably would skip the 840 120GB since it's TLC NAND which has lower endurance...for a smaller SSD I'd look into Kingston V300, Sandisk Ultra, Plextor M5S or Corsair Neutron

I would advise you to get the new Samsung 840 EVO.

...£100...easily enough to get the 840 Evo that Rorda mentioned.

I did read a number of reviews of the 840 EVO, most complimentary and somewhat reassuring about the magic that Samsung have used to get around the TLC NAND reliability problems at the low GB level. There appears to be around a £10 difference between it and the M5S - worth it in your opinions?

 

[Insert_Nickname]

I did read a number of reviews of the 840 EVO, most complimentary and somewhat reassuring about the magic that Samsung have used to get around the TLC NAND reliability problems at the low GB level. There appears to be around a £10 difference between it and the M5S - worth it in your opinions?

For reliability I'd take the proven M5S. I severely doubt you'll ever notice the difference outside benchmarks. New SSDs tend to require a few months to work out if there are any kinks or bugs. That being said Samsung is usually very dependable, but unexpected things can and do crop up...

 

[Repetes3]

Thanks I_N - I suspected as much. And coming from such an ancient system, I'm likely to be impressed enough with any SSD and the speed increase.

 

[mfenn]

Sorry mfenn, I should have made it clear that I already have the Windows disc, I only included it for completeness in case there were any possible compatibility issues.

Ah ok. No worries then.

I did read a number of reviews of the 840 EVO, most complimentary and somewhat reassuring about the magic that Samsung have used to get around the TLC NAND reliability problems at the low GB level. There appears to be around a £10 difference between it and the M5S - worth it in your opinions?

The 840 has been around for a while now that uses straight up TLC w/o optimizations. I haven't heard reports of those dropping like flies, and I don't expect to hear anything about the 840 EVO. That being said, nothing wrong with being a little cautious where new SSDs are concerned.

 

[Repetes3]

All parts ordered and on their way - alternative memory and I gave into the advice about a 2TB HDD.

Still stuck on a monitor choice and the difference in price between two, both Dells.

U2412M - and - U2312HM

I can't see anything that's missing from the smaller model in terms of connectivity, contrast, refresh, etc. There's a £50 price difference between the two - have any of you been persuaded that the 1920*1200 display and the extra inch of display have been worth the extra outlay?

Thanks again!

 

[mfenn]

The U2312HM uses a 6-bit panel rather than an 8-bit panel like the U2412M. That means that the 24 can display more colors without resorting to tricks like dithering. In practice, it doesn't really matter except for extremely color-critical work.

That and the resolution are the main differences. Personally, I want all the vertical pixels that I can, so I'd get the 1920x1200 one. If you've grown accustomed to 1920x1080, I don't think you'd miss them though.

 

[Repetes3]

Is the 8-bit panel spec for the U2412M a new thing, mfenn? I can only seem to find reviews that state it to be a 6-bit-with-trickery thing, e.g. Anandtech - U2412M

Not of much consequence for me and my price level I guess - think I've been seduced by the bigger display and how it fits in with what I'll use it for.

 

[mfenn]

Oh sorry, I was thinking about the U2410 and U2413, which are 8-bit panels. Carry on.

 

[Repetes3]

Just a note of gratitude to those who helped me get past the confusion of buying my first new computer for a long time. It's now built, looking and working beautifully (the SSD is the revelation I hoped it would be, the U2412M gorgeous) and far from the struggle that using the old one had become.

Insert_Nickname, lehtv & mfenn - thank you all!

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Just a note of gratitude to those who helped me get past the confusion of buying my first new computer for a long time. It's now built, looking and working beautifully (the SSD is the revelation I hoped it would be, the U2412M gorgeous) and far from the struggle that using the old one had become.

Insert_Nickname, lehtv & mfenn - thank you all!

Oh, you're welcome...

Happy to help out.