Question First build in 10+ years

[tw33ter]

My current PC (i7-2600K + 970) has started to show it's age in some of the recently released games, so I've started looking at building a new PC, mainly for casual gaming at 1920 x 1200.
My budget is $2000 give or take, and I'll be reusing my monitor (1920 x 1200), keyboard and mouse.
Really looking into a SFF build this time, so I'll probably go with a Sliger SM580 case.
With the way the market is right now, a few components on the list are there just because they're available at the moment with the curent shortage going on.
Open to any brands, but was interested/curious about an AMD build this time around.
Don't plan on overclocking, but read that DDR4-3600 was the sweet spot for Ryzen.

Let me know if any additional info is needed.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/XLKWQq

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 3.6 GHz 8-Core Processor ($272.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Fractal Design Celsius+ S28 Dynamic X2 PWM 85.71 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($149.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Gigabyte B550I AORUS PRO AX Mini ITX AM4 Motherboard ($179.99 @ B&H)
Memory: G.Skill Trident Z 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 CL15 Memory ($124.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 970 Evo Plus 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($189.99 @ Adorama)
Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon RX 5700 XT 8 GB GAMING OC Video Card ($409.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair SF 600 W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully Modular SFX Power Supply ($279.99 @ Amazon)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($108.78 @ Other World Computing)
Total: $1716.71
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-07-05 22:46 EDT-0400

 

[Arkaign]

I mean it's not going to be a bad PC by any means, but I have several observations.

Zen2 is better for basically everything under the sun EXCEPT gaming. For that even the 10600k stock is faster than the fastest tuned Ryzen gaming setup currently possible (as shown by Gamers Nexus using an XT OC to 4.6Ghz with 3800 CL13 Ram with tuned timing and 1.9Ghz IF clocks).

MiniITX has a staggering price bloat to it, which ends up either dropping you a significant performance tier, or costing more for the same performance tier, or a combination of those factors. That doesn't mean you shouldn't build one, but it's something to consider. Not all Mid or MicroATX cases are bloated behemoths either, a decent MicroATX build can be really close to the same size as a typical tower mITX build.

$150 for a water cooler for a stock 3700X is .. excessive.

$280 for a 600W PSU is absolutely painful. I know, part of the shortage + ITX tax, but just ouch.

Just as a test, I did an all Amazon build, all in stock and available, except the power supply and windows, both new from eBay major vendors. Here's what I got :

Cooler Master N200 MicroATX
Asus Prime Z490 Plus MicroATX
Intel 10600K
16GB Ballistix DDR4 3600 CL16
Noctua U12S Chromax HSF
Sabrent Rocket Q 2TB nVME
Corsair 650W CX-M
EVGA 2080 Super KO OC Edition
Windows 10 Home OEM

So, faster gaming CPU, quiet HSF, double the SSD space, noticably higher tier GPU with DLSS and Raytracing that isn't far off a 2080ti, and in a case that's barely larger than ITX. $1855 including the case. For about the same price you could go with a PCIE 4.0 SSD, or of course build a 3700X MicroATX rig but with the larger SSD, gen4, 2080 Super, etc.

Granted, the N200 isn't exactly the most stylish case, it's pretty utilitarian. But I just don't spend that much time actually looking at my case, even though it's sitting right on my desk. Everyone has different priorities however, and that's fine.

None of this is to say the described ITX build sounds like a bad system at any stretch, but for gaming, a 10600K/2080 Super/2TB nVME will just be a different league entirely compared to 3700X/5700XT/1TB nVME (games are enormous these days).

Good luck in any case (haha)

 

[VirtualLarry]

Zen2 is better for basically everything under the sun EXCEPT gaming.

I take issue with that statement. Compare to Zen and Zen+, Zen2 is MILES AHEAD for gaming. So, Intel squeaks by by a few FPS. Big frikken deal. Unless you're a 144Hz+ 720P ultra-competitive gamer, IT DOESN'T MATTER. Much.

 

[Arkaign]

I take issue with that statement. Compare to Zen and Zen+, Zen2 is MILES AHEAD for gaming. So, Intel squeaks by by a few FPS. Big frikken deal. Unless you're a 144Hz+ 720P ultra-competitive gamer, IT DOESN'T MATTER. Much.

Well yeah Zen2 was a really great improvement for gaming over Zen1/+. For a gaming only build with higher end GPUs, they're behind Intel though. I see it even at 1440p between 3700X and my old 8086k, let alone 9900KS+. Both with the 1080ti Aorus and the 2080ti AMP Extreme. A lot of this is because I run mixed settings and usually find AA blurry looking (personal preference of course), along with dropping shadows as they're not very noticeable to me in motion, and I prefer to hit as close to 144 as possible.

With all of that said, it's not like anything Intel currently has is fast enough either. The difference is sometimes considerable. Like 60-85fps 3700X, 95-115fps 9900KS. This is with 3600 CL14 Ram, 1.8Ghz IF on the Ryzen and DDR4000@4133 CL15 on the 9900K, also at 5.2Ghz (sometimes 5.3 if I feel like a bench run but don't like going past 1.345v) and 4.6Ghz uncore. Hence, the CPU is my limit. Same thing trying to hit 144fps in a lot of games, even at all potato settings and a 2080ti, CPUs are too damn slow for many open world games. On the other hand, Overwatch, Apex, Warzone, yadda easily surpass that, often with the 3700X as well.

As for choice I mean, I think it goes like this :

Mixed use PC : AMD
Low/Mid Range gaming : AMD
High to Ultra gaming : Intel

It's not even like you have to go with the stupid (imho) 10900K either. It seems mostly superfluous and overpriced when an OC 10600K passes it easily, and a 10700K does as well, with the added comfort of 8C/16T and 5.2+GHz at lower heat/power.

Anyway, there is this idea that just any old CPU is good for gaming, which IS true to a point, but the high refresh world is a different thing entirely, and not even Intel's best is good enough, which just makes trying to do it with my Zen2 even more frustrating. Need Zen3 and whatever Intel does next to hurry up, because the current offerings are too weak. It's only going to get more obvious with Ampere and big Navi.

 

[Arkaign]

To add to this, taking the brand names off the thing, if product A is better for X and product B is b better for Y, it's just as inefficient for someone to buy the wrong hardware for their primary uses. A non gamer has basically zero reason to buy an Intel desktop or laptop right now. I can't really think if very many scenarios where that could possibly make sense at all. Ditto low to mid-range gaming or mixed use, go AMD or whatever the best Micro Center or techbargains special is (or in the case where someone wants to make their budget stretch the farthest, go used workstation upgrade).

On the flip side, buying a Zen2 for high end gaming only makes no sense to me outside if brand loyalty.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Why is there discussion of high end gaming? OP clearly stated casual gaming at 1920 x 1200, which means they will get many years of service from a 3700x, particularly paired with the 5700 XT. And there is no way I would give up cores and threads while paying more money for a 10600K. The new consoles are 16 thread, so with longevity in mind, I like his CPU&GPU choices for price to performance at the given resolution.

 

[Arkaign]

I think mainly because of the overall buildout, it comes to over $1700 without a monitor (or case! Which takes it apparently closer to $1900) for :

Ryzen 3700X
B550 Mobo
5700XT
16GB DDR4 3600
600W PSU
1TB nVME

I mean .. $1900 can do a lot more than that 😅, even another 3700X based build, with which you could get double the SSD, better GPU (AIB OC 2080 Super), double the Ram, etc. That's down to how much someone want ITX vs MicroATX however. With optical drives going away, cases with less front to back size are possible and the mesh ones run pretty cool.

But yeah, close enough to $2k sans monitor and 'building a gaming PC' leads me to consider the realm of actual high end class stuff.

Alternatively, if 1920x1200 60hz is all OP is after, then $1900 is almost insane. 3600 non-X or even 3300X, 16GB budget Ram, B450 Mobo, 5600XT or 2060S, budget nVME, stock HSF, could probably come out well under half the price and still hit 60fps in basically everything.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Spec it out using the CPU, GPU, SFF, and save OP some cash. BTW, Newegg is including AC:Valhalla with the 3700x, that is an unbeatable deal right now, for anyone interested in the game. OP did mention some parts were filler because of supply chain woes, so they will doubtless appreciate your efforts. I refrain from specing anything but budget bang for buck stuff, because that is my bag. Not this higher end kit where it gets very personal for taste. I just laugh at the people that do the caviar taste and canned tuna budget thing.

 

[BenSkywalker]

Given how long he kept this last rig, is being "good enough" really what we should be recommending? I get what you are trying to say, but 2028 is a long ways off.