First Build Look-over?

flyoffacliff

Junior Member
Jun 30, 2013
5
0
16
I have done a lot of research on building computers, and I am ready to order one. But I can not keep the price under $3000. I would like to get it down to $2000 or less.

I will be doing work and browsing the web with it (i like to open a lot of tabs at once. But I also would like to get into PC gaming. I don't like violet games, mostly simulation, such as SimCity, Roller Coaster Tycoon 3, and Dirt 3.

I will be ordering parts from Amazon and Newegg. I have spent the past several hours taking screen shots of the shopping carts, editing them together, and adding comments in the pictures. Here are the images:

Newegg: http://s23.postimg.org/sl4ydjbaz/newegg_cart_with_comments.png

Amazon: http://s17.postimg.org/ob9mx097z/amazon_cart_with_comments.png

Remember I need to cut the price down a lot. Thanks for your help.
 
Last edited:

Major Orange

Member
May 22, 2013
70
0
0
Yeah I tried clicking on the direct link, newegg one's easier to see like this
Newegg:



But the Amazon one is still too small unless you squint and hug your screen:


Try upload the amazon one in a higher resolution.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
Better yet, re-upload unresized originals to another host, such as imgur or imageshack, that doesn't have such low res limits.
 

DSF

Diamond Member
Oct 6, 2007
4,902
0
71
I'm confused. You said you want to get it under $2000, but the build you linked is already under $1600.

Anyway, cursory thoughts:
1) The Arctic Silver isn't necessary. The cooler will come with thermal paste. The paste remover is even less necessary - in the event that you actually need to dissolve the thermal goop some high-purity rubbing alcohol or similar will work fine. The computer toolkit and those various other things aren't necessary either. A normal size Phillips screwdriver is the only computer tool you really need.

2) Rather than buying an old case and a bay converter just buy a newer case that has SSD mounting locations.

3) If you're going to do SLI, do it right away. It's a way of maximizing graphical power immediately, not an upgrade path. In other words, by the time you get around to dropping the second card in (if you ever do, which most people don't) there's probably a newer card that's just as good or better. None of the games you play require extreme graphics power anyway.

4) I might be crazy, but I didn't see a CPU in the Newegg build.

5) DDR3-1600 will be fine.

6) The Hyper 212 is not the best heatsink available by a long shot, but it's a good value and for what you're doing it'll be fine.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
I'm confused. You said you want to get it under $2000, but the build you linked is already under $1600.
$3066. It's one build . Lots of waste at Newegg (PSU, video card, tools, and accessories), but I can't even read much of what's being wasted at Amazon .

As far as Newegg goes, though, on top of all you've said:

- A newer better case will not need any added fans, nor dust filters. Except for special cases, I don't even bother mentioning or using unfiltered cases, anymore, because there are such good options with them at or under $100, now. What that means is that choosing a Fractal Design R4 can save >$112 (cable clamps and zip ties may not even be needed, depending on case, but fewer will be needed with a good new case). I'm guessing a Corsair would aesthetically suit the OP better, though.

Also, make use of the mobo's fan control, whenever possible, and/or use a separate fan controller (only if the mobo's is whacked, or the fans aren't standard, like on a Corsair 500R), so that less air has to be moved through the system, on average. Make sure to use positive pressure (more intake than exhaust) if worried over dust, even though temps might go up a few degrees.

- To assemble the PC, exactly one #2 Phillips screwdriver is required, or an equivalent. Some tight MicroATX and MiniITX cases can require a good, or just long, screwdriver, but bigger ones can typically be fully assembled with a multitool Phillips head, should it be closer by.

- Cable management accessories can be bought from any hardware store, and most major department stores, such as Walmart, Target, Ace, Lowes, etc., in small quantities, for less money. The glue is also good for many years, even after the plastic discolors, so you can stash those you don't use without worry.

- OP makes no mention of what features that MSI board has that are special.

- The $460 GTX 770 is expensive. Chop it down to a GTX 760 or Radeon HD 7970, and there goes $150-200. Why? As DSF mentioned, you're not going to SLI. These cards aren't going to go down too much in price. Some do, but most go down some, and then get replaced. Instead of SLI, what you will actually do is buy a new single card.

- The RAM is around $40 too much.

The Amazon one has a bunch of blobs that I'm sure are unnecessary or too expensive, but I can't puzzle most of them out. But, from what I can see, with a little squinting and imagination:

- A wrist strap is not necessary. Just touch the case a lot.

- Canned air, which I'm guessing the green cylinders are, is totally unnecessary. You should already have a vacuum cleaner, which is what you'll be using, with a better case, along with a trip to the sink every now and then.

- Whatever that Norton thing is, it's also not necessary.

- IDed the black thing with a thick cable:
http://www.amazon.com/Coolerguys-Cab.../dp/B001BETHGM
The very existence of it in the cart makes no sense, to me.

- IDed the Belkin gadget:
http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-F7C005-...energy+monitor

Save money, instead, with the good old Kill-A-Watt:
http://www.amazon.com/P3-Internation.../dp/B00009MDBU

Or, better yet, use S3 and/or S4, and don't worry much about it (the $20 K-A-W is handy to have, though).

But, now that I see it at Amazon, I see one is already in the cart.

- I can't ID the wireless adapter, but it appears to be USB, which is not a good sign for a gaming box. Also, given that the OP is getting everything else, I would want to know a little about the network. $2000 can buy a $50 router easily, if one isn't already there.
 

mfenn

Elite Member
Jan 17, 2010
22,400
5
71
www.mfenn.com
$3066. It's one build . Lots of waste at Newegg (PSU, video card, tools, and accessories), but I can't even read much of what's being wasted at Amazon .

This. The only parts I recognize are the CPU, Samsung SSD, and Windows. I have no idea how the rest of that comes out to fifteen hundred dollars.

OP, you can play the games you want very capably for about $1350.

i5 4570 $200
ASRock H87 Pro4 $88
Team DDR3 1600 8GB $53
MSI GTX 760 $250 AR
Sandisk Ultra Plus 128GB $100
WD Blue 1TB + Lite-ON DVD Burner combo $75
XFX Core 550W $60 AR
Fractal Design R4 $100
Dell U2312HM $225
Logitech G400s $60
Razer Arctosa keyboard $45
Windows 8 $100
Total: $1350 AR
 

DominionSeraph

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2009
8,386
31
91
This. The only parts I recognize are the CPU, Samsung SSD, and Windows. I have no idea how the rest of that comes out to fifteen hundred dollars.

OP, you can play the games you want very capably for about $1350.

i5 4570 $200
ASRock H87 Pro4 $88
Team DDR3 1600 8GB $53
MSI GTX 760 $250 AR
Sandisk Ultra Plus 128GB $100
WD Blue 1TB + Lite-ON DVD Burner combo $75
XFX Core 550W $60 AR
Fractal Design R4 $100
Dell U2312HM $225
Logitech G400s $60
Razer Arctosa keyboard $45
Windows 8 $100
Total: $1350 AR

Why the Ultra Plus? It doesn't seem to beat the 840 in anything but heavy writes. (Desktop is very light)
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6553/sandisk-ultra-plus-ssd-review-256gb/2
 

flyoffacliff

Junior Member
Jun 30, 2013
5
0
16
Wow, this forum in awesome! Thanks for the recommendations! Bay the way, I have a bad habit of opening tabs and never closing them, my current system gets unstable at around 100 tabs or so open. That’s why I need lots of memory. I have spent the past 1.5 hours typing comments for different sections of your posts, so this is going to be a long post.


--------------------------------------------------------------------


I'm confused. You said you want to get it under $2000, but the build you linked is already under $1600.


There are two carts, one at newegg and one at amazon. Each cart image has a separate price at the bottom and I added the prices together to get the $2000+

Anyway, cursory thoughts:
1) The Arctic Silver isn't necessary. The cooler will come with thermal paste. The paste remover is even less necessary - in the event that you actually need to dissolve the thermal goop some high-purity rubbing alcohol or similar will work fine. The computer toolkit and those various other things aren't necessary either. A normal size Phillips screwdriver is the only computer tool you really need.

I know, but would if I mess-up and need more? I would also just like to have it.



2) Rather than buying an old case and a bay converter just buy a newer case that has SSD mounting locations.

I did not know the Antec 900 was an old case. I just selected it because it was one of the top reviewed cases on Newegg, had a large side window, and I like the look of it. Any other benefits of buying a newer case?



3) If you're going to do SLI, do it right away. It's a way of maximizing graphical power immediately, not an upgrade path.

Okay, then I guess I won’t do SLI.

3In other words, by the time you get around to dropping the second card in (if you ever do, which most people don't) there's probably a newer card that's just as good or better. None of the games you play require extreme graphics power anyway.

Exactly. Once the 800 series comes out, the 700 series will drop in price. I think Roller Coaster Tycoon 3, the game I am most exited to play, is really hard on the CPU. My old Celeron 900 can’t sustain more than 1,000 guests in a park without instability.


4) I might be crazy, but I didn't see a CPU in the Newegg build.

It is in the Amazon cart, I have re-upload the picture (link in first post) so it is readable now.


5) DDR3-1600 will be fine.

The 1600 is only $20 cheaper than the 2133. Do you really think it’s worth it to get the 1600?


6) The Hyper 212 is not the best heatsink available by a long shot, but it's a good value and for what you're doing it'll be fine.

It’s not? It is the best reviewed heat sink of Newegg. What are the best heat sinks then?




----------------------------------------------------------------------------



$3066. It's one build
. Lots of waste at Newegg (PSU, video card, tools, and accessories), but I can't even read much of what's being wasted at Amazon
.

You think the PSU is oversized, or just too expensive?
Also, all the accessories were really cheap (most under $20)



- A newer better case will not need any added fans, nor dust filters. Except for special cases, I don't even bother mentioning or using unfiltered cases, anymore, because there are such good options with them at or under $100, now. What that means is that choosing a Fractal Design R4 can save >$112 (cable clamps and zip ties may not even be needed, depending on case, but fewer will be needed with a good new case). I'm guessing a Corsair would aesthetically suit the OP better, though.


I did not know the Antec 900 was an old case. I just selected it because it was one of the top reviewed cases on Newegg, had a large side window, and I like the look of it. Any other benefits of buying a newer case?



Also, make use of the mobo's fan control, whenever possible, and/or use a separate fan controller (only if the mobo's is whacked, or the fans aren't standard, like on a Corsair 500R), so that less air has to be moved through the system, on average. Make sure to use positive pressure (more intake than exhaust) if worried over dust, even though temps might go up a few degrees.

Thank you, I just noticed my motherboard does not have enough fan connecters. I just added an adapter to the cart.


- To assemble the PC, exactly one #2 Phillips screwdriver is required, or an equivalent. Some tight MicroATX and MiniITX cases can require a good, or just long, screwdriver, but bigger ones can typically be fully assembled with a multitool Phillips head, should it be closer by.

My Phillips screw driver is too big. I think the case would be good to have.



- Cable management accessories can be bought from any hardware store, and most major department stores, such as Walmart, Target, Ace, Lowes, etc., in small quantities, for less money. The glue is also good for many years, even after the plastic discolors, so you can stash those you don't use without worry.


Thank you, but I would rather get them online so everything I need for the computer is together.

I just relized I did not select any speakers, but I do have a Pringals Speaker that I got for free like this:
http://www.theodmgroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/pringles-speaker.jpg
It is battery powered, but it will have to work for now because I can’t afford good speakers.


- OP makes no mention of what features that MSI board has that are special.


Really nothing in particular. It is cheap, supports socket 1150, and has good reviews.



- The $460 GTX 770 is expensive. Chop it down to a GTX 760 or Radeon HD 7970, and there goes $150-200. Why? As DSF mentioned, you're not going to SLI. These cards aren't going to go down too much in price. Some do, but most go down some, and then get replaced. Instead of SLI, what you will actually do is buy a new single card.


But once the 800 series comes out, the 700 series will have a lot of sales and I will be able to get another 770 for cheaper. If I can still get good graphics out of my 770 for several years, I might never SLI them. Also, I read that the 770 is a good value for the price.



- The RAM is around $40 too much.

I selected one of the best reviewed ram on Newegg. I can get the 1600 verison for $20 cheaper or get different ram. But $20 is not much.


The Amazon one has a bunch of blobs that I'm sure are unnecessary or too expensive, but I can't puzzle most of them out. But, from what I can see, with a little squinting and imagination:


I up-loaded it, could you take another look please? J



- A wrist strap is not necessary. Just touch the case a lot.

That’s okay, it’s only $6. I wouldn’t want to damage an expensive computer because I did not use a $6 wrist strap. I think the computer toolkit comes with one, but I figured it would be good to have an extra one.


- Canned air, which I'm guessing the green cylinders are, is totally unnecessary. You should already have a vacuum cleaner, which is what you'll be using, with a better case, along with a trip to the sink every now and then.

I thought you weren’t supposed to use a vacuumed because it sucks, while compressed air blows. Canned air is quite and easy to maneuver.


- Whatever that Norton thing is, it's also not necessary.

That is Norton 360 software for Virus scanning, system optimization, and cloud backup. I know its not essential, but it’s good to have.


- IDed the black thing with a thick cable:
http://www.amazon.com/Coolerguys-Cab.../dp/B001BETHGM
The very existence of it in the cart makes no sense, to me.


That is to install in my computer desk. It is enclosed in the back, so I wanted it for ventilation.



- IDed the Belkin gadget:
http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-F7C005-...energy+monitor

Save money, instead, with the good old Kill-A-Watt:
http://www.amazon.com/P3-Internation.../dp/B00009MDBU

Or, better yet, use S3 and/or S4, and don't worry much about it (the $20 K-A-W is handy to have, though).


But the Kill-A-Watt does not have a wireless display. The Belkin at least has a cord so you don’t have to climb under the desk to read it. I know I should just pick one though. Also, what is S3 and S4?



- I can't ID the wireless adapter, but it appears to be USB, which is not a good sign for a gaming box. Also, given that the OP is getting everything else, I would want to know a little about the network. $2000 can buy a $50 router easily, if one isn't already there.

I live in an older house with no Ethernet wiring near the computer location, installing Ethernet wiring would be expensive. What is wrong with wireless? My ping time is good and my speed is only bottlenecked by my Internet Service Provider.




----------------------------------------------------------------------------



This. The only parts I recognize are the CPU, Samsung SSD, and Windows. I have no idea how the rest of that comes out to fifteen hundred dollars.

OP, you can play the games you want very capably for about $1350.

i5 4570 $200
ASRock H87 Pro4 $88
Team DDR3 1600 8GB $53
MSI GTX 760 $250 AR
Sandisk Ultra Plus 128GB $100
WD Blue 1TB + Lite-ON DVD Burner combo $75
XFX Core 550W $60 AR
Fractal Design R4 $100
Dell U2312HM $225
Logitech G400s $60
Razer Arctosa keyboard $45
Windows 8 $100
Total: $1350 AR

Thank you for your suggestions.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
That’s why I need lots of memory.
I didn't, and generally won't, unless a budget is tight, talk anybody out of more RAM. But, 16GB should be $100-120, right now, not $160. This kit, FI, is priced right, and includes an odd irony along with it .

I did not know the Antec 900 was an old case. I just selected it because it was one of the top reviewed cases on Newegg, had a large side window, and I like the look of it. Any other benefits of buying a newer case?
Case fans: $30
Dust filters: $45
SSD adapter: $7
Zip ties: $6.50
Cable clamps: $24 (50!)
Zip tie mounts: $10.33 (100!)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811139011
That's $50 AMIR, or $70 upfront, and includes everything but the clamps. You also only need either a couple of clamps, or a couple of zip tie mounts. You should be able to buy a pack at a local hardware or department store for <=$5.

So that's ~$75, v. ~$220, by getting a newer case. Even with a more expensive new case (like the R4), point is, you won't need all the added parts.

Exactly. Once the 800 series comes out, the 700 series will drop in price.
Will it? The 400 and 500 series did not drop in price, except for a couple models that they kept selling. Are you sure the 770 model you pick won't be like that? Worse, with a 4GB one, you'd have to find that same model to do it right. The 560 and 570 cards, FI, haven't dropped much in price. If the new series comes out on time, in high volume, the old ones will be only slightly marked down, because they will have been able to plan out the last production and shipment cycles so as to minimize outstanding inventory.

If you want SLI, buy 2 cards up front. But, I think it would be quite overkill, given the apparent situation (coming from very old slow parts, and getting a 1080P monitor).

I think Roller Coaster Tycoon 3, the game I am most exited to play, is really hard on the CPU. My old Celeron 900 can&#8217;t sustain more than 1,000 guests in a park without instability.
Um...a Celeron 900 is worlds apart from this. If that's what you're used to, you won't know what to do with your new PC, even if it's the fastest one (Intel at their finest: there have been at least 3 Celeron 900 CPUs, over the years: P3 at 900MHz, Pentium-M at 900MHz, and Core 2 at 2.2GHz).

It&#8217;s not? It is the best reviewed heat sink of Newegg.
It's popular, therefore gets lots of reviews. Better are more expensive, so bought by less people, so reviewed less. In many situations, a product can have many reviews due to having been listed for several years, as well, while others have shorter lifespans.

You think the PSU is oversized, or just too expensive?
They go hand in hand, typically. A good 600W or so would do, and offer overclocking headroom, for less (without SLI/Xfire).
Also, all the accessories were really cheap (most under $20)
Under $20 each, but expensive in total.

Thank you, I just noticed my motherboard does not have enough fan connecters. I just added an adapter to the cart.
What? I count 5 headers, you shouldn't be using more than 4 (2 intake, 1 exhaust, 1 CPU), and you could probably get away with 3 (2 intake, 1 CPU), depending on case.

My Phillips screw driver is too big. I think the case would be good to have.
Maybe, but you can bet the tools are crap, and it's another added cost. A decent #2 is like $5, and a cheapo Harbor Freight one would do the job.

Thank you, but I would rather get them online so everything I need for the computer is together.
The computer will take days to get there, and it will not cost $35. You don't cut costs down by spending an extra $30, when one little 3M blister pack will handle your needs for the next decade or two.

That&#8217;s okay, it&#8217;s only $6. I wouldn&#8217;t want to damage an expensive computer because I did not use a $6 wrist strap. I think the computer toolkit comes with one, but I figured it would be good to have an extra one.
It's just going to be a hassle. Don't shuffle around on carpet, touch the case every time you come to the computer, bring your parts to the case ASAP, rather than walking back and forth to get them, don't go petting your cats while working on it, and you'll be fine.

I thought you weren&#8217;t supposed to use a vacuumed because it sucks, while compressed air blows. Canned air is quite and easy to maneuver.
We're on different wavelengths, here. You will only very rarely need to clean inside the PC, if done right. You're not supposed to use a vacuum because the filter mesh can be delicate, but I wouldn't lose sleep over doing it with an upholstery brush attachment, FI, that should only contact it with soft nylon bristles (it's quicker than washing, because then you have to wait for it to dry, and often-times, unwarp, if it's a solid nylon one). The inside of your case should take a very long time to accumulate dust, and most of it will be fine dust.

That is to install in my computer desk. It is enclosed in the back, so I wanted it for ventilation.
How so? If you can make the holes necessary for something like that to work well, you could instead take care of it being closed, somehow.

But the Kill-A-Watt does not have a wireless display. The Belkin at least has a cord so you don&#8217;t have to climb under the desk to read it.
Extension cords are good things, and you're already buying them.
I know I should just pick one though.
More like just don't buy the Belkin. There's $1066+ to save, here.
Also, what is S3 and S4?
Standby (suspend to RAM) is S3, which keeps the PC on, but only enough to keep the data in RAM, and listen for configured wake-ups; and hibernate (suspend to disk) is S4, which dumps RAM to the disk, then shuts off, thus consuming practically no power.

I live in an older house with no Ethernet wiring near the computer location, installing Ethernet wiring would be expensive. What is wrong with wireless? My ping time is good and my speed is only bottlenecked by my Internet Service Provider.
Nothing is wrong with wireless, per se, except for normal wireless annoyances, but USB in general is CPU-heavy by its nature, so if you have any plans to play competitive online games, it's easier to find a good PCI-e card, than to try to find a good USB card.

Also, now that I can read what model it is, you don't need that much of a UPS. A UPS serves two main functions:
1. Prevent unnecessary shutdowns when power goes out and comes right back on, and
2. To power your computer long enough to properly shut down, if power does not come right back on.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16842101349
That's not a definitive choice, but that's the sort of chinese junkquality unit you should be after, generally. Supporting new versions of Windows is as important as anything else, really.
 
Last edited:

Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
11,901
2,716
136

mfenn

Elite Member
Jan 17, 2010
22,400
5
71
www.mfenn.com
I know, but would if I mess-up and need more? I would also just like to have it.

The 1600 is only $20 cheaper than the 2133. Do you really think it’s worth it to get the 1600?

You think the PSU is oversized, or just too expensive?
Also, all the accessories were really cheap (most under $20)

My Phillips screw driver is too big. I think the case would be good to have.

I selected one of the best reviewed ram on Newegg. I can get the 1600 verison for $20 cheaper or get different ram. But $20 is not much.


That’s okay, it’s only $6
. I wouldn’t want to damage an expensive computer because I did not use a $6 wrist strap. I think the computer toolkit comes with one, but I figured it would be good to have an extra one.

That is Norton 360 software for Virus scanning, system optimization, and cloud backup. I know its not essential, but it’s good to have.

OP, bolded some of the parts of your post that illustrate why you ended up with a $3000 monstrosity. Your mindset should not be "but it's only $XX more". It should be "man, I can't believe this costs $XX, I don't need that!" A little discipline goes a long way.

I took the time to categorize your carts and came out this this:

Computer parts: $2447
Fluff: $616

That's $600 that you can get rid of right off the bat before even talking about component choices.

As for the components themselves, I have a little exercise for you. Compare each item in my build with the corresponding item in your build. For every instance where the item in your list costs more than the item in mine, come up with a technical explanation as to why you need the one from your list. If you can't come up with an explanation, then get the part from my list.

"I thought it would be better" or "it seemed nice to have" do not constitute technical explanations. An example of a good technical explanation is "I need to encode h.264 videos at 60 FPS reliably, but the i5 4570 cannot maintain that rate".
 

Sunrise089

Senior member
Aug 30, 2005
882
0
71
I'm 90% confident this is a clever (though time consuming) troll post. You expect me to believe a person who is familiar with SLI configurations also thinks going from a Celeron 900 to a 4770k will still need more horsepower due to the demands of Roller Coaster Tycoon?! Or that a person who claims to want to reduce a PC's cost from $3,000 to $2,000 will argue for a second anti-static wrist strap?

Bravo OP.
 
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