First Hand Union Environment

[Stunt]

As many of you know, I've started a new job in a unionized manufacturing facility. These are my first hand thoughts on what I've seen with regards to the union environment (i've never been in one before).

So i get in there and immediately the managers are telling me that the union is strong and will give me a hard time. They even told me not to eat with the people in the lunchroom as I will be disciplining them in the near future. Then I went out on the floor and they complained about every single one of the managers thinking i was an hourly worker like the other students and maintenance staff.

I was then introduced as the new member of the management team, and will have seniority over all the people on the floor (at 22 i was a little worried about how that would play out). So on the floor people started talking and rumors started to fly about who i was and what my role was. A lot of stuff has started to be automated and a department will be shutting down in the fall; making several jobs redundant.

I started getting a good reputation as I was a new chance at communication with management finally. The union chairman invited me to dinner, others have offered their support and help on issues. The managers have been putting their spin on the politics around the company as well. The disconnect is brutal and I feel between a rock and a hard place as the people on the floor are integral to my process improvement, but my home team and coworkers are the managers.

The other day I was on an off shift and observed plant downtime, I was asked to record the causes, time periods and solutions. There was one major issue of the back end stopping the whole plant. It was this really old guy who was reading on shift! There's exclusively a rule against this and I reported it as a cause for downtime. The production manager who has been trying to get rid of this guy forever just went all out on the guy. Swearing his head off and telling him how useless he is, and disgusted by the betrayal. I was the only manager around, and was obvious it was me, so I've been targeted as a manager straight up. So I had my supporters from the floor bring this up, and I held a meeting with the staff including the guy, showed how his actions were not excusable and tried to get their confidence back indicating that I was there to make their lives easier as a service to fix problems.

I think with the guys on the floor I connected with and keeping my head high, I think I can keep the moral and confidence high with the union; but this is brutal. I cannot understand why labour has to be so stubborn and agressive, and I can't believe how unfriendly management are towards the people. They say they try, but I see critical issues.

I was brought on to climb the ladder fast with the aging management team, so maybe I can with time improve this, but I really have no idea how to address this problem in the position I'm in.

I've never had issues with non-union environments. This is total chaos!

 

[imported_Condor]

Tell them that if they want to avoid those "Made in China" labels on their products, they best straighten out.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: Condor
Tell them that if they want to avoid those "Made in China" labels on their products, they best straighten out.

Productivity goes down with threats. Any respectable business program will tell you that productivity is a function of worker satisfaction.

My dad worked for a Texas company for 5 years or so...he couldn't handle the top down threats like you are advocating, totally counter productive. Dad was Canadian division president, the US company was Temple Inland.

 

[Whaspe]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Condor
Tell them that if they want to avoid those "Made in China" labels on their products, they best straighten out.

Productivity goes down with threats. Any respectable business program will tell you that productivity is a function of worker satisfaction.

Yah, but at what expense? All these guys care about is their paycheck. I find that most of the jobs unionized workers carry out in these environments are boring, easy, and redundant. So if you can provide them with an incentive or remove one of the three areas I mentioned I think you'll see improvement. I know some companies provide bonuses for having different projects meet predetermined goals etc. I also notice that if everyone gets breaks/lunch at the same time a lot of time is wasted. Maybe staggering these somehow would help. In the end, you're a manager so be true to your roots.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Condor
Tell them that if they want to avoid those "Made in China" labels on their products, they best straighten out.

Productivity goes down with threats. Any respectable business program will tell you that productivity is a function of worker satisfaction.

My dad worked for a Texas company for 5 years or so...he couldn't handle the top down threats like you are advocating, totally counter productive. Dad was Canadian division president, the US company was Temple Inland.

Confronting them with reality isn't a threat. Do up a little Power Point presentation that addresses some stuff like history of some choice industrial giants (Republic Steel, most any shoe producer, a garment industry one or two) and do some graphs of productivity against cost to produce and illustrate how labor cost to produce differs with cost in China. Do a little dance about how they all must contribute, etc. Then remind them of how much they like to shop for the best price and that if they aren't aq part of the best price, they are the problem. Something like that.

 

[MadRat]

Its not a charity. Union predators - the ones that prey on the rules - tend to screw their own in order to get ahead.

 

[Tab]

So, let me get this straight. There some guy who is clearly NOT doing his job, but you can't fire him or the union will go on a strike or whatnot..

No wonder the production manager is pissed...

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: Tab
So, let me get this straight. There some guy who is clearly NOT doing his job, but you can't fire him or the union will go on a strike or whatnot..

No wonder the production manager is pissed...

For sure. The issue should be very clean cut. If they want to try to complicate the issue, do not let them...because they will mostly likely try to make it as complex as possible.

HORRIBLE though...if you are reading when you SHOULD be working, why should you keep your job?

Also try asking them what they would do with a union teamster that didn't organize the people and just sat there reading books...

 

[Tab]

Good suggestion Mago! Stunt, make sure if you have any more meetings you ask them if one of their union leaders wasn't doing his job, what they would do. Let us know how it goes,

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Condor
Tell them that if they want to avoid those "Made in China" labels on their products, they best straighten out.

Productivity goes down with threats. Any respectable business program will tell you that productivity is a function of worker satisfaction.

My dad worked for a Texas company for 5 years or so...he couldn't handle the top down threats like you are advocating, totally counter productive. Dad was Canadian division president, the US company was Temple Inland.

Companies shut down with Chinese competition without gaining a little concession. Unions need to wake up before they dry up (by closing down).

 

[Jhhnn]

Interesting perspective, Stunt. This whole passage seems a bit unclear, unfortunately, and seems to be the crux of the matter-

"I think with the guys on the floor I connected with and keeping my head high, I think I can keep the moral and confidence high with the union; but this is brutal. I cannot understand why labour has to be so stubborn and agressive, and I can't believe how unfriendly they are towards the people. They say they try, but I see critical issues. "

Could you elaborate?

One of the things you need to realize, Engineer, is that companies shut down in the face of Chinese competition not just because of the labor issues, but because of currency exchange rate issues as well. Canadian and American workers simply can't survive on Chinese wages, and Chinese managers aren't nearly as well paid as their north american counterparts, either. It's all fine and good to call on others to make sacrifices- managers should make some themselves to set an example...

 

[dmcowen674]

There are Unions in Canada???

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Condor
Tell them that if they want to avoid those "Made in China" labels on their products, they best straighten out.

Actually that is a good idea.

If the Canucks have any pride left (America no longer has any).

 

[cKGunslinger]

I'd actually like to see BBond or 1EZduzit address this. They both have defended Labor Unions in past threads and seem to feel that they are vital and necessary in today's workforce. ( actually I only care about 1EZduzit's opinion, as BBond will probably just tell you to watch out as one of those labors guys may just "rub you out," and be justified in doing so. :roll: )

 

[Stunt]

To address the posts above, I blame the management for the initial disconnect, we have to earn their trust. The people there are so old, the grudges go deep, so much so; they are both stubborn as hell...like siblings growing up except most have been there 30 years!

The guy was in the wrong, I hope the union sees my side.

 

[Stunt]

Also, every manager in the plant hates the plant manager's guts. He's an outsider and is a horrible leader. He's a class oriented Brit and wouldn't be caught dead hanging out with the other management staff, because he is above us.

 

[BushBasha]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
There are Unions in Canada???

Canada IS a union.

 

[ctracyw]

Hi. I am new to this forum, and I am a union pipefitter. Seems to me that unions were formed in the late 1800's because people got tired of being abused by managment. As more and more union people do a crappy job under the protection of the contract, employers will have not choice but to move production to someplace where they dont have to deal w/ the unions. I am in a trade union, but I would guess that the production unions are very similar.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: Stunt
Also, every manager in the plant hates the plant manager's guts. He's an outsider and is a horrible leader. He's a class oriented Brit and wouldn't be caught dead hanging out with the other management staff, because he is above us.

Know the type well. Used to install computer systems in union shops. Once they know the modernization will cost union slots, they do funny stuff like put lines of deflators and shaving cream across your drive, soak your car with kerosene, and threaten your life when you cross the pickett line. I would just lay the Rugar Blackhawk on the dash under the windshield and go on through. They haven't carried out a threat yet.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Condor
Tell them that if they want to avoid those "Made in China" labels on their products, they best straighten out.

Actually that is a good idea.

If the Canucks have any pride left (America no longer has any).

I kind of respect you, but do disagree on this issue (and a few more). I think Americans still have plenty of pride, it has just been beaten down. If I did half the things today that I did in the day, I would go to jail or go broke trying to stay out. We have created a bad environment in our efforts to make everything better.

 

[sandorski]

I wouldn't make too much of it. I'm sure everyone is full aware of this guy, but there's nothing to be done about it at this time.

 

[nergee]

If your customers knew that they were paying for workers busy reading and spewing hatred toward management,
how could you blame them if they told you to take a hike. Learn the Toyota Production System..it's how a company
should be run.........................

 

[racebannon]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Companies shut down with Chinese competition without gaining a little concession. Unions need to wake up before they dry up (by closing down).

Those companies would shut down anyway. It makes no difference if union employees make an extra 50 cents an hour, there is no competing with people who work for $2/day.

Unless your definition of a little concession is paying Americans $2/day.

 

[Deudalus]

Originally posted by: Tab
So, let me get this straight. There some guy who is clearly NOT doing his job, but you can't fire him or the union will go on a strike or whatnot..

No wonder the production manager is pissed...

To put it into perspective, this doesn't just apply to machinists and whatnot.

I had a tenured professor at the university I recieved my bacherlors from. He was a teacher in my minor of criminal justice. He would routinely show up 10-15 minutes late. He would also end class very early (30 minutes early was normal during a 1 hour long class and 1.5 hours was the norm for our 3 hour night class).

To top it off he didn't really teach anything while he was there. He would often tell us hunting and fishing stories or just random ramblings about his work as a lawyer (which didn't apply to our work at all).

His tests however were given as if he actually taught the class so the highest grade was often in the mid 60's. I typically made low to mid D's which curved up 35 points to an A.


I spoke with the dean of my department and he had to be a screw up for 2 years straight (3 if he managed an appeal) before he could be fired or the union would be all over them for yanking his tenure. He was effectively un-fireable.


So you wonder why our educational system sucks? There's one of the many reasons there.